Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Africa Rifle Choice for the Memsahib?

I've been off these boards for a while, boys, while life its ownself has kept me occupied more than usual. But I check in here on occasion and try to keep up with all y'all's African peregrinations, and as it happens, reading about Dave's RSA Scout Rifle hunt got me to thinkin'...

So here's what I'm thinkin' about. Next August, me and The Redhead are gonna spend 10 days in the Bubye Valley Conservancy with John Sharp. I'll be chasing Buff, eland, waterbuck, and kudu (in that order). The Redhead will mostly be tagging along with me, but has admitted she would really love to collect a zebra and maybe an impala, and she has expressed the opinion that some warthog ivory she could convert to personal jewellery would be nice.

I am looking to improve on my 2015 buff and kudu, and to collect that ultimate (to me) African head, a blue bull eland, which I did not get a chance to collect in '15. And waterbuck, which are plentiful in the Bubye, really caught my eye last time and if a good one pokes his head up I plan to take it off.

The Redhead has not yet killed anything bigger than a Texas jackrabbit, but we have plans to get her a TX whitetail this fall on a friend's ranch here in south Texas. Problem is, she can't use any of my rifles, because she is left-hand and left eye dominant. So we need to get her a rifle suitable for American deer sized game, but that will also serve for African antelope and for zebra, and it has to be a left-hand rifle.

I'm leaning toward a .30 caliber, likely .30-06; stoked with 180 gr TTSX, it should be adequate for zebra, and more than enough gun for antelope. I don't want to go much smaller, although she has expressed a partiality for the .270 Win, as that was her daddy' caliber and that's what all her brothers shoot... Then there's the newfangle 6.5mm Creedmoor, which everyone seems to be buying these days, and should be sufficient for her North American hunting, and everything in Zim other than (perhaps?) zebra. Or maybe just a good old .308, or while we'are at it, maybe a .358 Win? (I have one of those already, a lovely old Savage 99 that would serve her well, I think).

So I'm open to suggestions from you fellers here on the 'Fire. What say you?

270 w/ 150 gr. Partition

My wife used a 30-06 with a 165 TSX for her zebra.

Rifle was a second hand Model 70 out of the Winchester Custom Shop. Bone stock other than I upgraded the bedding and it had been ordered with a 13 inch LOP.

She hasn't hunted anything since but keeps talking about an eland!

I don't think you need a 180 TTSX in the 30-06. 168 at the biggest. Could even go 150.

If she really wants a 270, I'd let her have it. Load a TTSX in it and she's golden, including zebra. While in the Eastern Cape, I couldn't believe that with some PHs that don't hunt dangerous game, the 270 is their largest cartridge. I heard some talking about how they thought it was a great all around cartridge. I know my PH loans his 270 out to clients. His other rifle is a 7x57.

Meanwhile we are told 30 calibre and above, a 30-06 is a sensible minimum.

Other choices would be a 7-08, 280 or 308, 7x57. We bumped off a young bull moose with my 6.5 Creedmoor and a 129 Hornady.

If she likes the 270, run with it. The zebra won’t notice or care about the difference between a .270 and an 06.


A left handed M70 so chambered shouldn’t be too difficult to find.

Doc: My uncle ALWAYS took a 270 as his light gun on several safaris in the 60s INCLUDING lion, with old fashioned Winchester Silvertips. Personally, I like your 06/180 TTSX combo though.

.270 with either a 150 grain Nosler Partition or Swift A-Frame. A 160 grain Nosler Partition will be a good choice also.

I’ll pitch in with my usual angle; I’d worry more about stock fit than calibre. If the stock fits well and the scope is properly positioned and calibre is within reason all is good. That being said if she wants a .270 get one and use whatever quality bullets the rifle shoots best. An advantage of the .270 over the .30-06 is less recoil and therefore more practice will likely happen and less chance of a flinch or gun shyness developing.

I love the idea of jewelry from Warthog ivory. I have a set of Warthog tusks sitting at home and I’m thinking of what to do with them.

Enjoy all the safari pre-planning and preparation.

I’m surprised no one here has told you that you suck after announcing an upcoming trip to hunt in Africa. Doc you suck. 😃

All the best GRF

I have used a 270 or 280 on at least 20 African trips and with TTSX or E-Tip or Trophy Bonded Tip bullets there will be no issues.
I spent a month there earlier this year a got 50+ Zebra wildebeest etc and a 6.5 CM would have been just fine for all. 90% of the shots will be 225 yards or less. Less recoil means better shot placement. So I would get the 6.5 or load the 270-130’s to around 2850-2900 with 4895 to significantly reduce recoil.
DON’T MAKE IT DIFFICULT.

Just got back from S. Africa. Our PH was doubtful when my son showed up with his new Tikka T3X stainless lite 6.5 Creedmoor. Ph had heard all the hype, but never had a client use one. My son took Sable, Warthog, Kudu, Blue Wildebeest and Mountain Reedbuck all one shot kills other than the Blue Wildebeest that just stood there after the first shot. PH counseld my son to shoot just behind the shoulder on each animal with the goal of double lung shots. We used factory 143 grain Precision Hunter ammunition. Light gun, significantly reduced recoil compared to a .270 and the sound is not nearly as bad as the magnums. Shots ranged from 60-220 yards.

Any cartridge from 6.5 on up should work fine for zebra on down. Mrs Blacktailer has a cute little Kimber Super America in 308 that has done the duty for her up to zebra and has done double duty as my light rifle. Since it is fairly light and her first rifle I started her off with mild loads with 100gr bullets and worked her up to full power 165 Barnes. Don't think it is available for southpaws but you are on the right track. Just have her practice plenty from field positions and off sticks. And have it fitted to her. Nothing kicks worse than an ill fitting rifle.

Not to provide a reason to not to buy another rifle, but the last time I went, I wasn't in the mood to lug a rifle over there so as a right-handed person shared my dad's left-handed Montana 1999 with no problems.

The only issue I could for see is some countries and provinces have minimum caliber restrictions. Namibia for instance has a 7mm minimum for medium game I believe. You may not run into that where you're going. My daughter used a 7-08 in Namibia with good results. My other daughter did fine with a 45-pound compound bow in RSA.

I agree with finding a rifle that fits and she can shoot accurately. Then practice, practice and practice some more. Caliber is less important than shot placement, within reason. Initial zero on the bench then get off of it. Practice with sticks, looped sling, field expedient shooting positions, kneeling, sitting, and prone.

Dave

What he said.

Returned from the East Cape on June 15th from a cull PG hunt. Rifle was a Blaser R93 in .30/06 with a Zeiss Diavari 2.5-10x42, 4A reticle. Used factory loaded Barnes 168 grainTTSX ammunition which performed perfectly on everything hit with it. Most shots exited and most animals were DRT.

If she is comfortable with an '06, fine. It is always a good choice. If not, a 7x57 or 7-08 with appropriate ammunition is a good lower recoil alternative, providing she shoots it well.

I would see if I could find a .35 Whelen for her to shoot and see what she thinks of it.

Lots of good replies here, fellers, I do appreciate the input. And yes, GRF, I know I suck. But in all fairness, this trip was The Redhead’s idea... we never took a honeymoon trip when we wed in ‘16, and she says this will serve.

As several of you have said, rifle fit is Job One. Which is why a left hand action is crucial. I have no doubt I can shoot her left hand rifle if. Weds be, but I don’t want her to have to accommodate one of my right hand rifles. Caliber and load are secondary considerations. I’m considering the wisdom of stocking the rifle with a slightly heavier than OEM laminate stock for recoil reduction, if we go with the ‘06, since she will not be carrying the rifle long distances here in TX or in Zim.

I'm sorry

Both my youngest son and daughter seemed to enjoy their M70's 7x57 with 175gr. NP

The Big pills dig deep and are more than adequate for Zebra (Eland too) and recoil is minimal.

Doc either choice would be good. Ingwewife used the 30-06 180 TSX combo with great success...a .270 with a TTSX in it would be a damn close second....

You could probably do a lot worse than a Tikka SS Laminate in 270. Pretty sure they come in LH versions. You could trim the stock length to fit and put on a better pad.

A nice condition LH PF Model 70 in a Boyds could be nice. Send it to Redneck for a going over/trigger job and have it cut to fit, new pad, and bedded.

I had reservations, too. But it shot .9" at 200 yards with the Barnes 168 TTSX factory ammo and it broke down into a very compact package in a small case. Scope was a Zeiss Diavari 2.5-10x42 Locutec* rail mount with 4A reticle. Not having a traditional receiver, it was quite short in terms of overall length and carried well.

The R93 worked perfectly with no issues on the hunt. It came right back to zero upon reassembly despite a very long flight and several plane changes. Would I take it on a DG hunt? Absolutely not.

Other choices were a Satterly custom VZ24 in .30/06, an M70 featherweight super grade in 7x57 and a Winchester Custom Shop M70 in .300 Win.

The deciding factors were the light weight, the small travel case and the fine accuracy. Going back next year for another PG cull hunt and have not decided on the rifle yet. Also have .300 Win Mag, 9.3x62 Mauser, .338 Win Mag and .375 H&H barrels for the R93. Will likely sell all the other barrels except for the '06 and the 9.3x62.

BTW, the R93 with the 9.3x62 barrel and a Swaro scope with an illuminated circle dot reticle is a pig killer par excellence.

if you don`t mind a little recoil take a 300 win mag. 1st choice or a 30-06 2nd choice,but I would put a night force scope on my gun

I'm real partial to the 140 gr Accubond in the .270 Win, too.

But if I get her a .270, are you fellers gonna call us gay? Asking for a friend...

If its for her, its not gay.....


Cause she's a "she"....


Simple.




But I'd really look at a Barnes bullet if zebra is on the menu...

Let her shoot the savage 99 and see how she likes it. The 358 would be excellent for zebra. This hunting season, get her to hunt whitetail with it so she can build confidence and become familiar with the rifle. I suspect your PH will be fascinated by the 99. Darn few 99s on safari these days I should think.

T.S.

I like the idea of the 358 in the Savage also, if she likes it.

If not, I am in the 270 camp with a monometal bullet of some type.

You could start her with 110's for the deer/antelope in Texas then increase the weight for Africa. A 150gr bullet at 3000fps with Rel 26 would not be a disappointment.

Isn't the minimum caliber for Zebra in Zimbabwe 7mm (.284)?

Zimbabwe
• Class A Game 5300 Joule Minimum caliber 9.2mm in diameter (Elephant, Hippo, Buffalo)
• Class B Game 4300 Joule Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter (Lion, Giraffe, Eland)
• Class C Game 3000 Joule Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter (Leopard, Crocodile, Kudu, Oryx / Gemsbok, Hartebeest, Wildebeest, Zebra, Nyala, Sable Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, etc.)
• Class D Game 850 Joule Minimum caliber 5.56mm in diameter (Warthog, Impala, Reedbuck, Sitatunga, Duiker, Steenbok, Jackal, Game Birds, etc.)
• Black Powder Rifles Minimum caliber .40

I would go a 7-08 throwing 140 gr TSX’s in a rifle that fits her well and not look back. My most recent PH in Namibia just a month ago had a 270 Win minimum suggestion as the animals, particularly mountain zebra and gemsbuck are so tough. I used an old 30-06 FN Mauser with 168 gr TSX and all was fine. My neighbor here in Idaho (I am typing from BC at the moment) has killed local moose, elk and deer and she likely goes 125# though is well fit. I’ll be back in Texas end of August and if you want to pay a visit I can line up a number of rounds and rifles she can try.

I used a .308 on multiple African trips. A 180 grain Barnes is a great bullet and will do a number on just about anything over there. I took my zebra head-on at 150 yards and the bullet ran the entire length of his body and was under the hide on his rear. Whatever you chose, pick a bullet that will penetrate--it's not about shock. The trackers will find it, even if they go just a bit farther.

I agree. Penetration is paramount!

T.S.

Doc,I have 3-.270's and I don't care if someone calls me gay. I would just say "Yes,the .270 makes me happy" and leave it at that.

OK...The Rainbow Coalition has spoken....

270 or a 7x57 and load them down a bit till she's us to the recoil and noise, but if you don't want her to go again load the 06 to the nuts and turn her loose! but what ever you do don't take a gaymoore too Africa just ain't right. the gaymoore the new kid on the block!

Not all women are recoil shy. My wife shoots a 35 Whelen.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/galleries/12984748#Post12984748

If she is partial to a 270 stop right there and start seeing if any fit her. The Weatherby ladies rifle might be an option but I would rather have a fitted wooden stock. If you have time a pattern could be made to fit her perfectly and then sent off to a duplicator. Or cut down a standard stock and fit her later if she becomes a regular hunter.

A really sweet rifle would be a NULA or Fieldcraft in 6.5 Creedmoor but get the 270. If she wants to one up her brothers the WSM and especially the 270 Weatherby could be viable choices.

James, my late Grandfather used his 270Win to kill assorted plains game, including Zebra, Kudu and Eland. He used his trusty Winchester Power Points, a mediocre bullet by today’s standards, and never lost an animal. Your bride will be fine with it.

hrmph, only three 270's, rookie
3- 700's
3- classics
2-O'Conner commemoratives
1-Pre 64

probably some I have forgot about

I stand humbled in front of you.

Well, that is interesting, if true and current. If a 7mm minimum applies, then a 7x57 would be a good place to start. I will check with my PH to see what he knows on this.

Also, I’m encouraged by the suggestions we let her try the Savage 99’s... I have a .308 Win and a .358 Win. When the current string of wjibs on the road slows down, we will head to the range and see what she thinks of those rifles. I have a beautifully light .308 load (130 gr TSX) for her to try for starters, and we can work up from there.

Thanks for all the comments, guys.

Yeah Doc...ask your PH...those rules are very seldom enforced.....

Doc,she could use a .270 Ingwe.

That’s a good suggestion! I’m sure he would be honored by the nod to his love of the caliber!!

It goes without saying that you'll smoke a turd in hell...

Well, I’m smoking a Dominican dog rocket on my patio now, and it’s hot as Hades this afternoon, so...

9.3x62







(Last photo looks like an 03 Springfield)

Does she really need to shoot anything more powerful than that in practice?

It isn't like she will need to be calling hold-over at 400 yards...and she isn't going to feel the recoil in the field when she shoots at game.

You'll know the hold-over from zero if needed. And she will shoot that bugger in the bush just like she did at the range, knowing it is friendly.

As someone mentioned earlier, fit and natural aiming is key. You could get her shooting bug-holes with a 130gr at 2,200fps and when she shoots the 165TTSX at 2,750 at that Zebra, she'll never know the difference.

Oh - and don't forget - I'm coming in for 12 days right behind you...so leave something for me!! haha


Tim

Good practice!


And that .308 130 TSX combo would be good for what she wants to do!

Don't worry DocRocket,there's plenty of turds here in Hell to smoke.

Maybe I should post some pics of the .270 Ingwe and we can watch Ingwe bust a vein.

Well, that's a good point, and one worth exploring.

My wife isn't what I'd call a girly-girl, although she can dress up with the best of those... she is a tough cookie and I expect she'll be ok with game load recoil, provided she has time to work up to it. Getting a rifle that fits her well is the first step, and getting used to it using light practice loads is the key to the process. I expect she'll be able to work up to her game load alongside myself.

Peter Flack, who I've had the great pleasure of meeting and speaking with annually at DSC for the past 6 years, writes/tells of his annual pre-hunting season training: start with a .22, move up to a light rifle, then move up to a medium rifle, then move up to light loads in the heavy rifle, and finally heavy loads in the heavy rifle. If a hunter as experienced as Peter does this, I'm sure many of the rest of us would benefit by following this practice. I know I used it myself prior to my 2015 Zimbabwe hunt: I started out shooting a bolt .308, then transitioned to my .375 with light practice loads, then moved up to my full power hunting loads. Each practice session for a couple of weeks I'd work through that progression, then eventually I dropped the 308 and just shot the 375. Over 2-1/2 months or so I shot more than 700 rounds of .375 that way. As a result, I was/am more comfortable and familiar with my .375 H&H than any other rifle I own, with the possible exceptions of my Model 70 .308 and my old .22 rimfire I grew up shooting.



Tim, no worries there! I won't be shooting a lot of game on this trip. As I said, I want a better buff than I've got now, and an eland. Cate will get a zebra or two, and maybe a warthog and an impala. The rest are yours!

My daughter at 13 got a zruger #1 in 7 x 57. Kill a zebra and kudu dead in their tracks. I got Memsahib a custom Mauser 6.5 x 55 and that has taken wildebeest, kudu and a host of things and never caused a flinch.

My favorite calibre and wow! What a girl!

Ah. Now THERE is a suggestion that makes my bells ring! A Ruger No. 1 in 7x57 makes a LOT of sense!!

I was about to say, a #1 solves the left hand and right hand user problem. My #1A in 7x57 dropped my best whitetail last year. If she wants to try it, or one of the other chamberings, she'd be welcome. Heck, if she wants to borrow one for a Texas whitetail hunt, that would be fine.

A 270 w/ 150 Partitions or 140 TSX's & never look back.

It'll b easier on her shoulder, & she'll shoot it better, & she won't likely flinch as much as an '06 with 180's. (The main reason the U.S. military went away from the '06 & 7.62 was complaints on recoil.)

But if'n yer bound 'n determined to go to an '06, use the 168 TSX instead of the 180's..............plenty more than enough.

And good luck on the eland, too.

MM

Patrick, I just might take you up on that offer. I think a 7X57 aka 257 Rigby aka 270 Ingwe is ezACKLY what we need!

MM... no bound and determined about it, my good man!

I just got an email reply from my PH, who says Zim has a minimum 7mm caliber requirement for Zebra and smaller critters. But furthermore, the 270 is considered a 7mm since 6.8 mm “rounds up” in whole numbers to 7mm! Gotta love the arcane legal reasoning of these old British colonies, what?

Any roads, I’m thinking we’ll try a Ruger #1 in 270 or 7X57, or both, and see how the memsahib does with it/them.

This^^^^^^^^^Perfect! (BTW, never been to Africa, probably never go, but I read a lot about it on the innanet.

Have a .270 as well, though it is a #1B, with the 26" medium weight barrel.

.270 Ingwe? You owe me a keyboard!!!!

yes, the magical .270 Ingwe

Actually, the 270 Ingwe is a 7x57 necked down to .277 diameter... I wanted to call it the 6.8mm Ingwe, but was overruled...

The 140 gr TSX out of my 270 Win works at 250 yards on elk. My last PH, just a month or so ago in Namibia, was worrisome on simple plains game (kudu and mountain zebra being the largest) when I mentioned bringing my 270 Win Montana. He wanted bigger. I brought a 50's vintage FN Supreme 30-06 hand loaded with the 168 gr TSX and all was good. First time hunting with the 30-06.

Some pics of the .270 Ingwe.



On the left is a .277" 130 grain Sierra flat base and on the right,is a .277" 160 grain Nosler Partition.


Will be ordering a .270 Ingwe reamer in the next two weeks or so.

How does it perform?? Ballistics??

T.S.

Don't know,it is in the early stages i.e. a reamer (will order the reamer next week) is going to be made then a rifle will be barreled.

I'm going to use the standard 1-10" twist and have it throated for the 160 grain Nosler Partition in the above picture,which is 3.163" COAL.
.

As far as how it will perform,well,it will kill anything I shoot at as long as I place the bullet in the vital organs.

Not trying to be a smart azz,but I'm just beginning to get the ball rolling.

Is that kind of like a 7x57?

Yes EdM,it is just a 7mm Mauser case necked down to take a .277" bullet with no other changes to the case design.

Going to send a dummy round and sized as case to PTG today,to have the reamer made.

I already know the answer, but why don't you just shoot a 7x57? 7mm-08? or just load down your 270 Win?

I own 3-7x57's and just want to be different.

I know, I know,
I looked very seriously at building a 270-08 at one time....
Then came to my senses and bought a couple 7mm-08's.

Maybe I should turn in my looney card.

Ingwe,maybe this will help....

What can I say,some have it,some don't.

My Beloved runs with a Merkel K3 Stutzen in 7x57r topped with a VX6 1-6. With 175gr bullets, she's good to go for anything up to Zebra...and maybe Eland with the right shot.

Admitedly, the recoil is a bit stout with 175's given the Merkel tips in at 6# 4 oz scoped. The positive is that she can carry it all day without an issue.

Good luck and remember, getting the wife exactly what she wants is a GREAT way to make sure you get what you want!

Actually, Doc, if you multiply the .277 bullet diameter by 25.4, it converts to 7.0358 mm, so the .270 actually is a true 7mm. Our "7mm" .284 diameter converts to 7.2136 mm. I found the conversion tables here: http://www.irrigationglobal.com/contents/en-us/d265_inch2mm_mm2inch.html

So, as good as the 6.5 Creedmoor is, it's really a 6.7056 mm and not legal under their rules that require a 7mm or larger. I would think a .270, .280 (!) 7mm-08 or anything that shoots a .270 or larger bullet could work well.

I really do like your idea of having her shoot the Savage 99s. If she likes the .308 and handles it well, she may be able to step up to the .358.

B.B., that’s some interesting arithmetic you got there, and it’s true!

Whatever, it looks like we are going to try the Savage 99 route first, then try the 7X57in a Ruger #1.

Do BOTH! Far be it from me to dissuade anyone from a new rifle! If you get her a #1, it may even have one of those ol' swirly-lookin W-word (walnut) stocks on it!

Whatever SHE likes and shoots well---

My thoughts are than an ‘06 might be a bit much for a new shooter and I would also back down from the 180 TTSX if it is the ‘06 you go with.

My uncomplicated recommend is a 270 with a “130” for here and a TTSX or 150-gr Nosler for there; i. e., Fed premiums so loaded.

Do they make one of those that says " Gay Rifle Slut".....?

It will definitely have one of them swirly-wood stocks.

You may need to look into a Rainbow camo pattern...

I've never seen one, never have seen a unicorn, either.

Doesn't mean they don't exist...

DF

Well, I don't know much about using a .270 Winchester in Africa, but I can vouch for one thing here. That is an authentic photo of Osa Johnson holding her Oberndorf Mauser sporter chambered in 9.3x62. How do I know this? Because I own and scanned that photo and I uploaded it to the website that its link points to! Oh, and I just happen to own that rifle.

Just for grins, here's the backside of that photo:





That is NOT Osa's signature, by the way.


Oh, and here's one more for you:




Anyway, sorry to take the thread off topic. I just wanted to have a little fun...

Cheers!
Bob F.

And that reminds me of the best EVER Africa thread here!

Thanks jorge! I haven't been around here much the last few years but I'm becoming a little more active again. I retired last month so I've got some spare time on my hands now.

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming....

Cheers!
Bob F.

+1

DF

My first trip to Africa was in 2002 and my FN Mauser 9.3x62 was the rifle I brought. The original 250 gr X worked like a champ from porcupines to eland. It has not been hunted since so will likely head back 2019/2020 if the stars align.

... and that would be....?

.270 with good bullets would be just fine.

I introduced my stepson to shooting when he was ten. He had never known anyone that owned a firearm until he got saddled with me. I got him set up at a bench with a 22 rimfire and he just sat there with rifle aimed but no shot. I finally walked up to him and saw tears streaking down his cheeks. All of the anti-gun media had him convinced bad things were going to happen.

I persuaded him to give it a try. After that first shot he couldn't get enough. He went through three boxes of ammo in no time. Next trip to the range, I brought along a '03 Springfield sporter in 30-06 that I had cut down to a short, handy carbine. He went through all of my ammo pronto and got darn good at cycling that bolt. LOL

When deer season rolled around, I took him to South Texas to hunt Whitetail. For some reason, he wasn't shooting well with the 30-06 when we checked rifles at camp so I handed him one of my Steyrs in 376 Steyr. He started punching bullseyes with it so that's what he used. He took a doe and a very heavy horned nine pointer that trip.

Moral of the story - Never underestimate a person's recoil tolerance. Let the individual establish it through experimentation. Just provide the means and support and avoid transferring any doubt/anxiety you may have to the new shooter.

T.S.