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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,144 Likes: 5 |
LIke I said, Just let them talk: The vast amount of unrecognized presupposition illustrated here is again almost unbelievable. To begin with, the billions of years old earth is based on philosophical science (not empirically proven) begun primarily in the early 19th century in Europe, accepted, and built on by Darwin with his ORIGINS mid-century. And now taught worldwide, formally, for decades as hard, settled science.
But wait you say, radio isotope dating proves it all. Not quite. Carbon-14 dating? Not necessarily. As to the former, determining the time for “daughter material” to decay from “mother material” is based on a presently known rate of decay (hard science), there are multiple presuppositions used to interpret the answer in years; for one, that the rate of decay has always been the same — uniformitarianism. It might have varied greatly. Greatly.
The earth could be relatively young. There might have been a supercontinent (one land mass) broken up by a world-wide flood followed by an ice age that that resulted in dinosaurs and other mammals becoming extinct. This flood might have resulted in many extinct animals being found as if they had been buried fast and violently. Exihibit A: wooly mammoths intact with food still in there mouths and still intact DNA.
As to the ark holding all of these creatures (dinosaurs) — they needn’t have been adults but rather the very young.
And on and on. A lot of pseudo-science snake oil has been given and swallowed.
Edited to add some references: see works by Jonathon Sarfati PhD and Henry Morris PhD (particularly, the GENESIS FLOOD). And there are many others. I think those folks are all fools, one side for actually believing the Ark myth and the other for wasting time protesting. As for the state helping finance it, it looks like they'll get a good return on their investment.
As for trying to refute the Ark story with science, I have learned that there is no point in trying to do so, or trying to refute science with religion.
Those who believe the Ark story was meant to be taken as a literal event in history that encompassed the entire planet are those who have zero interest in, or (alternatively) ability to learn, the fundamentals of the life sciences. Thanks. It is supposed to be a discussion, right? 😉
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
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Coming from a Jewish Rabi of some influence, I'll summarize it.:
It is not to say that the story told through Moses is factually true, the Torah is not a history book. It is to say that the words are as given by God to Moses. Are they actually true, partly true, based on historical facts, is the question. Or are they given to convey a message of faith and guidance, much the same as a Christian would view a parable of Jesus? The Torah is not a history book, it is a book of theology and faith. God is not man that He should lie. That which He told any man to include in His Story is both Truth and history of then, now or the future. A Jewish Rabbi of any level of influence has not reconciled the life, death and resurrection of the Son of God, his own Messiah, and therefore has neither the discernment or revelation to understand his own faith fully which has been true of all of that faith and office for over 2,000 years.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,954 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,954 Likes: 1 |
You seem to forget.
According to the Bible narrative EVERYONE in the world except Noah and his family DIED, so there would be no one else anywhere else in the world to record stories of the same alleged world wide flood.
Genesis 6:17 Behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life ... Every thing that is in the earth shall die.
7:14: and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
&:20 and the mountains were covered.
7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Water covered the highest mountain. Rained for 40 days and 40 nights,
Real nice guy, your God....murdering EVERYONE. Blame God if you like, and you seem to want to, but you seem to forget a few things yourself, like the first few chapters of the Book of Genesis (which you quoted from) where God gave mankind the perfect place to live forever and how man disobeyed his instructions and reaped the consequences from that day forth including what happened at the flood. The world and it's current state is because of man's actions. not God's.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 18,349 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 18,349 Likes: 2 |
Where'd the get that much gopher wood?
Carpe' Scrotum
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,954 Likes: 1 |
Where'd the get that much gopher wood? That should have been spelled "go-for" wood. 
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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All I want to know is if it floats?
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
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I have a few questions. Is there a chapel so people may worship? Is there a restaurant (Cracker Barrel would be great) with a gift shop? Is there a petting zoo? Because you can't have an ark without a petting zoo. An enquiring mind would like to know.
Just down the road from The City of Lost Souls in the Land of the Blind.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,909 Likes: 3 |
I have a few questions. Is there a chapel so people may worship? Is there a restaurant (Cracker Barrel would be great) with a gift shop? Is there a petting zoo? Because you can't have an ark without a petting zoo. An enquiring mind would like to know. These are some good questions.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2016
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The world and it's current state is because of man's actions. not God's.
That includes climate change, right?
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
Where'd the get that much gopher wood? That should have been spelled "go-for" wood. i don't wish to afend jaguarman with my questions. but at some 4500? years ago, the wood supply question is legitimate. that is, it was bronze age, maybe iron age peoples. the knives, splitters were basic or rudimentary. building a water tight ship/boat that could withstand a flood for what 40 days, and maybe float for a year? they might have used saplings, bound together with pitch, tar or something? maybe animal skin? on the other hand, it had to be bouyant enought to float itself, 8 people and all the animals. some people have speculated there was a crew member always moving, causing half the animals & birds to jump up, thus reducing the total boat weight by half. i'll wait on jaguar man to quote chapter & verse.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,475 Likes: 18 |
The world and it's current state is because of man's actions. not God's.
That includes climate change, right? The climate changed dramatically in Noah's day.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
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The world and it's current state is because of man's actions. not God's.
That includes climate change, right? The climate changed dramatically in Noah's day. yes, that was the beginning of the change from matriarchy to patriarchy, back in that vicinity. the world became much more difficult in which humans could survive. maybe it was over-population, or just difficult at that level of available technology. but, in any event, the matriarchy was pretty much shut out, and "the garden of eden" was no more.
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2016
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The world and it's current state is because of man's actions. not God's.
That includes climate change, right? The climate changed dramatically in Noah's day. yes, that was the beginning of the change from matriarchy to patriarchy, back in that vicinity. the world became much more difficult in which humans could survive. maybe it was over-population, or just difficult at that level of available technology. but, in any event, the matriarchy was pretty much shut out, and "the garden of eden" was no more. Do you actually believe yourself, Gus? You aren't as entertaining as jag and some of the others, but you'll do
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
The world and it's current state is because of man's actions. not God's.
That includes climate change, right? The climate changed dramatically in Noah's day. yes, that was the beginning of the change from matriarchy to patriarchy, back in that vicinity. the world became much more difficult in which humans could survive. maybe it was over-population, or just difficult at that level of available technology. but, in any event, the matriarchy was pretty much shut out, and "the garden of eden" was no more. Do you actually believe yourself, Gus? You aren't as entertaining as jag and some of the others, but you'll do me & jag as a team do our best to keep the level of interest up in terms of group discussion. sometimes it's a hit or a miss. seriously, back in the day it's pretty clear that the earth changes made the earth a much more difficult environment for humans to survive. whether we tell the story as the emergence of humans from the land of eden, or were forced out, what difference does it make? eve, eden, whatever. lilith was laying in wait as soon as humans emerged from the Garden? but, i'm open for discussion. maybe when the sahara became a desert was involved? big trees & water before that. humans with minimum developed technology, making a living on the earth, and having offspring. it was a pretty adaptable bunch at some level of being, no?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5 |
You seem to forget.
According to the Bible narrative EVERYONE in the world except Noah and his family DIED, so there would be no one else anywhere else in the world to record stories of the same alleged world wide flood.
Genesis 6:17 Behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life ... Every thing that is in the earth shall die.
7:14: and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
&:20 and the mountains were covered.
7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Water covered the highest mountain. Rained for 40 days and 40 nights,
Real nice guy, your God....murdering EVERYONE. Blame God if you like, and you seem to want to, but you seem to forget a few things yourself, like the first few chapters of the Book of Genesis (which you quoted from) where God gave mankind the perfect place to live forever and how man disobeyed his instructions and reaped the consequences from that day forth including what happened at the flood. The world and it's current state is because of man's actions. not God's. Because the perfect all knowing God didn't know what was going to happen ahead of time? Hurricanes, floods, volcanic eruptions, Tsunami's. How are all of those "because of man's actions"?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5 |
I have a few questions. Is there a chapel so people may worship? Is there a restaurant (Cracker Barrel would be great) with a gift shop? Is there a petting zoo? Because you can't have an ark without a petting zoo. An enquiring mind would like to know. I think it's Yes to all of the above.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,954 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,954 Likes: 1 |
You seem to forget.
According to the Bible narrative EVERYONE in the world except Noah and his family DIED, so there would be no one else anywhere else in the world to record stories of the same alleged world wide flood.
Genesis 6:17 Behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life ... Every thing that is in the earth shall die.
7:14: and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
&:20 and the mountains were covered.
7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Water covered the highest mountain. Rained for 40 days and 40 nights,
Real nice guy, your God....murdering EVERYONE. Blame God if you like, and you seem to want to, but you seem to forget a few things yourself, like the first few chapters of the Book of Genesis (which you quoted from) where God gave mankind the perfect place to live forever and how man disobeyed his instructions and reaped the consequences from that day forth including what happened at the flood. The world and it's current state is because of man's actions. not God's. Because the perfect all knowing God didn't know what was going to happen ahead of time? Hurricanes, floods, volcanic eruptions, Tsunami's. How are all of those "because of man's actions"? You're the expert. You read it for yourself.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5 |
You seem to forget.
According to the Bible narrative EVERYONE in the world except Noah and his family DIED, so there would be no one else anywhere else in the world to record stories of the same alleged world wide flood.
Genesis 6:17 Behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life ... Every thing that is in the earth shall die.
7:14: and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
&:20 and the mountains were covered.
7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Water covered the highest mountain. Rained for 40 days and 40 nights,
Real nice guy, your God....murdering EVERYONE. Blame God if you like, and you seem to want to, but you seem to forget a few things yourself, like the first few chapters of the Book of Genesis (which you quoted from) where God gave mankind the perfect place to live forever and how man disobeyed his instructions and reaped the consequences from that day forth including what happened at the flood. The world and it's current state is because of man's actions. not God's. Because the perfect all knowing God didn't know what was going to happen ahead of time? Hurricanes, floods, volcanic eruptions, Tsunami's. How are all of those "because of man's actions"? You're the expert. You read it for yourself. You made the claim. Lets here you defend it.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,954 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,954 Likes: 1 |
Real nice guy, your God....murdering EVERYONE.
You made the claim. Lets here you defend it. You're the one who made the claim (see above) and I did defend it. God doesn't need my defence anyways so rail away. BTW ..... The only ones that God murdered are those that thumbed their noses at him in disobedience.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5 |
Real nice guy, your God....murdering EVERYONE.
You made the claim. Lets here you defend it. You're the one who made the claim (see above) and I did defend it. God doesn't need my defence anyways so rail away. BTW ..... The only ones that God murdered are those that thumbed their noses at him in disobedience. I guess you missed the quotes about the flood drowning everyone, and everything that was not on the arc?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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