Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns What CCW gun for jaguar?

You don't see this every day. Jaguar escapes from his habitat

Just doing what Jaguars so.

Remember some years ago when a lion escaped from a zoo and killed a few people?

Sasha Siemel used a spear. But he also had a S&W .38/44 Outdoorsman revolver on his hip. Guy was fearless...

The original Most Interesting Man in the World.

He musta missed all those "Minimum Caliber For Dangerous Game" threads on Internet forums.

We had a leopard kill a woman and then escape from one of those "wildlife sanctuaries" here a some years ago. He didn't last long. If memory serves they shipped in a female leopard which was in heat and he soon came in to breed. I guess he hadn't gone far. Bad deal all the way around.

The Beretta Model 71 (Jaguar) immediately comes to mind, but it would not be my first choice.


Being that they are think skinned critters, I think your typical 124 grain Gold dot fired from whatever 9mm service auto you perform best with would more than likely be just fine.

Truth be told though, if I had the opportunity to be in on the hunt for a big kitty on the loose, I would likely take along a special handgun like a custom 1911, or my favorite 5" Model 29. More likely than not, it is going to be settled in one shot or two, and the "Trophy shot" will be hanging on your wall for a long time, and a Glock 17/19/34 just does not have the panache that a custom Les Baer or Colt 1911 .45 or a 2.5" M19.








Though it is very hard to be a 4" 29-2








The hard part is deciding which one!

Don't poke a Jaguar with a stick .

when i saw the open window, i figured that was coming...

obviously, few folks will ever encounter a jaguar or leopard in their daily routines.

far more likely it will be a pit bull, or other vicious, dangerous animal that can potentially maul.

while the 9mm is my favorite handgun cartridge, it is all of the dangerous dogs that caused me to re-evaluate this. i settled on the .45 auto about 17 years back, for every day concealed carry. and on occasion, the .40 S&W--as i'm more inclined to trust the heavier bullets in handguns when it comes to these aggressive urban animals.

WOW................could have been much worse, cats are incredibly quick.

A late friend of mine was a PH (you might have known him Hi_Vel, Ridge Taylor from Jackson) & got mauled by a wounded leopard, & he was one of the best.

Nearly killed him & they had to beat it to death to get the animal off...............lucky day for him he wasn't killed.

Big cats are never to be taken lightly.

Guy in the truck prolly would have been happy to have any handgun during that episode.

MM

To All,

When I was stationed "way down yonder", we had numerous EL TIGRES around & my choice for Tigre medecine was a double-barreled sawed-off 12 gauge shotgun loaded with #1 buckshot.

IF I absolutely had to have a concealable handgun to defend my tender body from a jaguar, it would have been a Colt's 1911 loaded with Plus-P JHP.

yours, tex.

The old 30-06 came in handy a month ago in Namibia with a cheetah. The shot was only 35 yards so a handgun, about any mid to large bore I own, would have worked fine.

^^^ That ain't no jaguar. A dang .32 H&R or bigger will take out a cheetah without much fuss. Jaguars are not to be trifled with.

Nor are leopards..................

MM

Taxonomically, there's almost no difference between a leopard and a jaguar, both being in the tiny panthera category, to include only two other members, the tiger and lion. The cheetah, however, is most closely related to the mountain lion, both being members of the much larger category felidae, into which are included the domesticated house cat.

Google Fu on display!

Aren't Jaguars in the 300lb size range? A cougar is maybe half that.

Jaguars are the third largest of the "Big cats". Behind the tiger and Lion. In the Amazon they can grow to 400lbs.

Ron

Ohio7x57; All,

Fwiw, ALL Jaguars in Latin America will take/kill/eat humans IF they get the chance.
I suspect that humans look like "several slow-moving, easily-caught, tasty meals" to El Tigre but nothing more than that.
(When we worked with the local Indios "way down there", MANY "lost or strayed children" became meals for El Tigre, though some unwary/unarmed adults also were preyed upon. - After such an incident, ALL that usually is found, if anything is found after a person is "taken", are small pieces of well-chewed bones & bits of bloody clothing.)

Much of the "usual diet" of the jaguar is monkey. = We humans too are primates & thus regarded as "meals W/O wheels".

yours, tex

Yep, size is one of the incidental differences between Jaguars and Leopards. That's insignificant when it comes to species classification. The same species can vary significantly in average size based on where they are found and how long they've been reproductively isolated from one another.

Jaguar and Leopard, side by side.



PS There was, until about 11,000 years ago, a subspecies of lion living in North America, which differed from its very close African cousin (the modern Lion of Africa) only by being, on average, larger, and possessing a somewhat heavier coat.


Here they are, the modern African lion and the extinct American lion, depicted side by side.



Their differences are somewhat akin to those between the Bengal and the Siberian Tiger.

MM,

I'm not familiar with his name--I'll ask Bob if he knew him. To suffer an attack such as you mentioned--and survive it--is nothing short of amazing. Would imagine in addition to the stitches, he was likely put on some heavy duty antibiotics, with all of the bacteria they carry in their claws.

I know absolutely zero about these cats--have never even seen one.

I know some folks make light of his writings due to the hyperbole, but as a teen back in the early 1970's, I read several articles by Russell Annabel concerning the jaguar.

He was hired by some of the various ranchers in Mexico who were having problems with these big cats killing livestock. He used either a model 94 30/30 Winchester--or at other times--an autoloading 12 gauge shotgun stoked with magnum boosted #2's. I think these were far better choices than any handgun, whatever the rig. He used dogs, and as I recall, quite a number of them were torn up or killed. That would be tough to take...

Glock 20 with Buffalo Bore, heavy, hard cast.

.40's drop pitbulls very well.

Hi-Vel; deflave,

Pardon me for pointing out that Pitbulls are NOT jaguars & aren't 300-400 pounds of muscle/bone/claws/teeth. - I know of one El Tigre "way down there" who survived a shot in the chest by a 7x57mm Mauser from 30-40M long enough to severely maul the shooter & then disappear into the jungle. NO body was ever found, so we don't even know if the cat died.
(The shooter couldn't get off another shot, as the Model 93 Mauser jammed. = Those people who didn't clean/lubricate their firearms every day often had that problem, when working in the dripping jungle.)

That's why I carried a 12-gauge "sawed-off" DB loaded with #1 magnum buckshot all the time when we were in "jaguar habitat". = At pointblank range buckshot will "turn" most any critter, with the possible exception of a charging elephant..

yours, tex

You mean, what ccw gun to carry with which to shoot oneself once caught and being gnawed upon by said jaguar? Well hell, you takes your pick.

Rhino?

TheRealHawkeye,

The famous PH Harry Selby "turned" a wounded/charging rhino in 1954 with a double-barreled PURDEY shotgun. - I would presume that the DB was loaded with buckshot, though Robert Ruark didn't identify the load..

RSA Senior Game Ranger Leonidas H. Geist in 1962 literally decapitated a wounded lioness at "about one long step" away with a load of buckshot out of his trusty 16 x 16 x 9.3x74mm drilling. - He later described the result as "a near thing."

ADDENDA: Lord Robert Baden-Powell (YEP, the founder of the Boy Scouts) said in an article for THE LONDON SUN that he witnessed a man named Thomas Matthew Obenga "peel a wounded leopard off of a British LT, using a .303SMLE bayonet". = Lord Baden-Powell said that it was "The bravest act that I've yet witnessed."
As a result, PVT Obenga was promoted to SGT, The Kings Royal African Rifles.

yours, tex

Well, I know hound hunters whose dogs have bayed up jaguars here in the states. One carries a double action .38 Special and the other carries a single action .357. None of he animals were shot--they were just photographed and let go. (They are classified as "endangered" under the ESA, and the last guy to kill one here in the U.S. spent some time in prison.) One has had the good fortune to have his dogs bay up two over the years--both big males. His photos are pretty impressive.

mudhen,

Here in TX, jaguars are listed as "invasive species" & as "vermin". According to TX law invasives, "- - - - - may be taken day or night, by any otherwise lawful means."
(I had no idea that any "invasive species" are protected by federal law/regulations.)

yours, tex

Pardon me but I was replying to Hi Vel who had mentioned dangerous dogs.

Jaguars are hardly an "invasive" species in Texas--their original range in the U.S. extended from southern Louisiana to southern California, and there are historical records from Texas as far north as the Red River. Texas Parks and Wildlife lists jaguars as an "extirpated" species--one which once inhabited Texas but which is no longer considered resident. However, there have been a few verified sightings of jaguars in far south Texas in recent years.

Federal protection for the species in the United States has resulted in a flurry of recent sightings in New Mexico and Arizona--and even the re-estalblishment of a couple of resident males in southern Arizona. Networks of trip cameras in southern Arizona now document the comings and goings of occasional wanderers from the breeding population in Tres Rios region of Sonora about 100 miles south of the border. Judging by the number of fresh pelts that turn up from time to time, they are fairly common in Chihuahua, south of us here in the Boot Heel of New Mexico, as well.

Were those guys intentionally baying jaguars, or were the jaguars unintentionally bayed as they were hunting mountain lions?

Jaguars are also present in Quintana Roo, Yucatan. I was warned not to venture into a section of jungle adjacent to an off the beaten path bar and restaurant that I frequent when I'm diy fishing down there. There have been many sightings, including some black jaguars.

local_dirt,

I would LOVE to see/photograph a BLACK jaguar. - Always heard reports of black cats from the Indios down there but I wasn't ever that lucky.
(I saw a "fairly dark" pelt but nothing that could be called black.)

yours, tex

Tex, google it. There are pics out there. A black jaguar was what I was specifically warned about in that area.

They were hunting mountain lions in all three instances. They had no idea that they had a jaguar until they caught up with the dogs. Good stories, but I won't relate them here.

Google Warner Glenn's book, "Eyes of Fire," and Jack and Anna Mary Childs' book, "Ambushed on the Jaguar Trail".

I was pretty sure you were talking about Warner Glenn. He's a hound man legend.

mudhen,

The late Mr. Richard D "Red" Rhea was a "hound man of note" from Gilmer, TX in my boyhood & one night his pack of Treeing Walkers treed a jaguar near Mercedes, TX about 1956-58. (I don't remember the year exactly but remember Mr. Rhea recounting his story more than once.). - He shortly thereafter called off the hounds & ended that night's hunting because of a heavy rain/wind/thunder storm coming up.
(Mr. Rhea was one of my dad's best friends during his USAAC WWII service & until his passing about 1960.)

yours, tex

Tex,
Here are a couple quick links i picked up with google.

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&source=android-browser&q=yucatan+black+jaguar#imgrc=hfuypsMsbF2ZLM:

http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2017/01/quintana-roo-holds-the-largest-jaguar-population-nationwide/

http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2015/06/jaguars-make-a-comeback-in-yucatan/

Sian Ka'an biosphere is where I've done a lot of diy fishing, as well as Tulum and north up the coast from there. There are days I may not see another human all day or most of the day. These are 2 of the areas they are spotted, as well as Coba, and Ek Balam, which literally translates to black jaguar in Mayan.

I have a picture of me taken on top of Nohoch Mul, the highest pyramid in the Yucatan at Coba, when you could still climb it. In the background is nothing but thick jungle.for as far as you can see. Ideal territory for a jaguar.

I'm not sure the bit about the cheetah is correct. Have you ever seen one in person? I don't know about the scientific classifications, but the cheetah is almost nothing like a mountain lion, other than vaguely similar size. Bone and muscle structure is different, their habits and mannerisms are different, and the cheetah is generally taller and thinner, with much smaller feet and being less heavily built.

Yes, its closest living relative is the North American Mountain lion. It is believed, in fact, that it was at one time the same species (several million years ago), but changed form only after migrating to Africa, where it depended less on ambush and more on maximizing speed in the chase, thus losing retractability in its claws.

in the interest of this theme, i did a little looking on youtube yesterday.

of course not a jaguar in this case--but rather, a leopard.

appears these guys were using some pretty heavy hitting rigs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJwZ38mYsF4

Travis,

just got off the phone, talking with shrapnel. i think he misses you being here in God's country...

from your comment, i take it you may have had to use a .40 on one of those land sharks.

a while back, i briefly communicated with another 'Fire member who mentioned he had good success with the .40 in this application.

while there are a lot of pits here in the area where i live, i'd imagine Florida would be much worse...

You mean better? LOL.

As far as dogs, Montana was much worse. Texas was absolutely horrendous.

There seems to be little/no tolerance for an unleashed dog in this area.

Those gayted communities are rough!

I'm not talking about those. I mean everywhere.

But yeah, some of the gated communities will have you removed for farting.

Its all the Yankees.

Think further south...

You shoot dogs in your white outfit/pink shirt, or is Sonny going Tactical these days?

There are no dogs to shoot.

The pants are pink also.

Love the grips on that Les Baer. Old school cool, right there.

HOLY CRAP YOUR PANTS BATMAN!