Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Ky. Creationists build Noahs Ark (complete with dinosaurs)

Gus,

Part of the equation is a psychological trait know as "ability to accept ambiguity". For those of us high in this trait, "I don't know" is an acceptable answer. For those low in this trait, they can not handle an answer of "I don't know", so they substitute that with "god(s) did it".

So, Adam and Eve's kids marries kids from the separate creations of other space aliens we call gods, then the Christian space alien god ordered his followers to wipe out the families they married into from the other space alien gods? Is that your hypothesis?

What evidence for your space alien god hypothesis do you have that's better supported the the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection?[/quote]

the problem as i see it, for us minority adventurers, as i perceive it, is that the alien hypotheses works well right up to the point that someone dares to ask: "well, where did the aliens come from?" that is, what was the process that allowed the aliens (extraterrestrials) to populate the earth?

at that point we're thrown into mental disarray. truely, where did they come from, and why did they choose to colonize earth?

but, assuming they did all of that and for good reason, then my storyline helps explain why the hebrews under direction of the mighty YHWH were such natural borne killers in the attempts to manifest The Kingdon down here on this outlier planet in the solar system? [/quote]

And the same problem applies to those who attempt to substitute a supernatural god in place of your space aliens. [/quote]

yes, there's realtime problems when at the base of the barrel, humans don't know from whence they came, where they are, nor where they are headed next.

but we know all of that. what we need now is a good story to help extricate ourselves from this mess?
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Gus,

Part of the equation is a psychological trait know as "ability to accept ambiguity". For those of us high in this trait, "I don't know" is an acceptable answer. For those low in this trait, they can not handle an answer of "I don't know", so they substitute that with "god(s) did it". [/quote]

oh, i agree on at least a partial point of your comment. people want to know. what they don't know can be attributed to god's will. the early scribes called anyone doing something powerfully majical on the earth as god. why wouldn't they? they were stone age, pretty much. desert herders who cooled under the shade oak trees where the sheep & goats watered, and were grazing fresh grass. we have to give them credit. they were asking questions, wondering, speculating, sharing information and opinions.

while in the rational world, and discussing the metaphysical is not exactly an easy task?

i mean, they had to eat, find food & water for their flocks, kill off wolven, etc.

care for everyone, including the sick & injured, the old, the babies. beget babies for the future.

it wasn't an easy life? not very noble, or romantic either one? the human future depended upon their decisions & related outcomes?

if we humans can't explain something with the available information at our fingertips, let's leave it up to "god?" i mean why not?

Gus, what reason do we have to believe "god(s)" is the right answer? And does substituting a wrong answer stop at least some people from looking for the correct one?

oh geez. we find ourselves engaged in argumentation of the metaphysical, the divine, the mystical, the majical. please pick one or more?

we don't really know who/how we were put here, by whom, nor why. a perfect god would be perfect. why even need us?

i figure some god/alien/dna expert designed us, and set us loose down here on the earth. and left to survive.

where did the designer come from? well, that's a step backward in time toward the beginning.

maybe god enjoys riding on top of the clouds, pissing down on the earth and observing?

most of what the public schools taught us might be wrong, same with the church?

i fall back upon the writings of the ex-catholic priest Dr. Mathew Fox.

but, what could he have possibly known that none of us do?

Buddhism is more philosophy than religion and contains much to recommend it. My philosophy goes thusly:

The Universe contains three entities... me, you, and God, however we each conceive that God.

If I relate myself to God correctly, which is to say honestly, then I am in perfect relationship to you insofar as I can control it. If you have a correct relationship with God,then we have no cause for strife between us.

That’s all there is to it.

Jesus, the Christ, has revealed Himself to me. That’s the beginning, and the end, of “ Christianity” for me.

Whatever “ works “ for me in this life is most likely my best shot in the afterlife........ assuming there is one.

The Bible also doesn't mention how old Cain was when he slew Abel. It doesn't mention a of of things. And being a complete history or a complete explanation of all the details was never the point. But go ahead and build your box.

Like I said, Cain was the 1st one mentioned but that doesn't mean he was born first. We have no idea how long they were in the garden or if they had children before the fall. There's no mention of time at all. After he murdered Abel, Cain was afraid of those other people out there. If he and Able were the 1st, who would those other people have been?
These are things that we aren't told. You're trying to inject info that simply isn't there.

Thanks. There are more too. Where, for example, did all the extra water come from? Enough to cover the world including the mountains. And where did it go to afterwards?

And this water, was it fresh or salty?

And how did water-living plants and animals survive, given that many are very sensitive to changes in salinity, temperature and light levels? How did the marine food web survive, when sudden change of depth and salinity and turbidity would have wiped out the seagrasses, algae and other life forms down at the bottom?

How do you account for coral reefs, some many thousands of years old, which can only survive across quite a narrow set of criteria, specifically including depth, clarity and temperature?

And the olive leaf the bird brought back. How could that have been found? Olive trees submerged for a year won't survive - even growing them in poorly-drained soil will soon kill them.

What would you feed your obligate carnivore animals on for a year on the Ark?

There must have been a lot of stuff happening from Genesis 1 thru 4. I know many religious books talk a lot about this period, especially the Hebrew texts which make the claim that God created the Heaven and Earth and Lucifer and is band polluted it until it was dark and total chaos. God then recreated a second time with the Fallen Ones doing it again until only Noah and his family were left perfect in their generation. He then attempted to wipe out the Luciferian race of half human, half Angel again. Some made it through again. Lots of history on it if one cares to dig.
Since Cain is not in Adams lineage, something must have happened between Eve and the Serpent. Hhmmmmmm . Adam race begins with Seth after Abel was killed.

AS, whatever are you talking about? Of course A and E when told not to eat of the forbidden fruit had full knowledge (perhaps much fuller than we can realize) of a moral choice and thus were fully responsible.

Are you next referring to what we inherit as our fallen nature’s from A and E? Yes, personal total depravity. We are sinful beings too due to the Fall and are not innocent nor unjustly charged.

First I don't accept any of your assertions that someone who didn't have knowledge of good and evil is fully morally formed. In our society Eve would have gone to Juvy, and had her record expunged at age 21.

Also by extension to your logic, if you break the law the state is justified in executing your kids?

And there's also the problem of no credible evidence Eden was real, or the Universe is only 6k years old.

Noah himself had all the shipwright knowhow?..how do you draw such conclusion?

If So, God would not have to provide the plans, Just tell Noah what he needs to transport
and Noah would be able to work the size and shape out himself.

God gave Noah the task/project of constructing an Ark, but he may have hired people with the required
skills to complete the task...ie; Noah being overseer or project leader.

With Solomon building the temple, at least we are told he drafted forced labor out of all Israel.
and also used resident aliens in Israel which were listed on the census done by his father David.



Rock Chuck said God steered the Ark because it didn't have a rudder,
I gather God could also use his powers to steady a box hull ark in rough waters.

either way wild guesses and assumptions don't confirm anything about details that don't appear in scripture.

Mess?...what mess?...Hinduism considers it all an illusion (Maya) as does Buddhism.

Nothing more than a dreamy temporary thought bubble of God , that can make a dream seem
so very real (to humans) but isn't.

If your own dreams can seem so vividly real at times, imagine what a supreme being(ultimate Brahman)
can dream up!..
dream characters called humans even having dreams of their own...hows that for ya...



Urth could be an inter-galactic penal colony....or inter-galactic quarantine station
its not like we can escape or really go anywhere is it?
felons can like to stay in prison cause it can be easier than the outside world,[ or in our case universe].
or urth could be some nerd aliens 'ant farm'

Being of the Baptist persuasion myself, I can fully agree with Antelope Sniper’s post without risk to my immortal soul.

IF there be a hell, I earned a front row seat by my own endeavors with no assist needed from Adam.

I’m most grateful that the Universe operates by perfect justice being tempered by perfect mercy.

For all I KNOW, that mercy may even be granted to those who don’t ask for it.

Since God's Word is quite clear about sin passing to all we can know there were no children born before they sinned. All "those other people out there" were their brothers, sisters, nieces, and nephews. The Bible is quite clear about Adam and Eve being the parents of all people. If Adam and Eve had a baby their fist year, how were they when their first kid turned 100? How many kids could a near perfect breeding couple produce during that time. How old were the kids when they started marrying and having their own kids? With even rough arithmetic one can discover by the end of the first century there could have been quite a population.

The water was already here. The earth is sort of a closed system. Where did the water go? If the land is smoothed out the water would be about two miles deep all over the world. A better question is, where did all the dry land come from?

Ninety percent of fossils are marine fossils. We have no idea what the pre-flood ocean was; whether salty or totally fresh. The world has places like Bonneville Salt Flats where the salt is hundreds if not thousands of feet deep. These places are call juvenile salt flows, or something like that. Even if the original ocean was fresh it would have become salty during the Flood when the bosoms of the deep opened up. Water, lava, salt and no telling what all else came forward.

The other questions you are considering are not accepting the idea we have no idea about plants and animals 4,500 years ago. Lots of scientific information has be overturned in the last half century.

The Bible tells us everything alive was vegetarian prior to the Flood. After it Noah was told, "Everything alive is for food." Obviously lots of things changed at that time.

Certainly. But since we know that God makes all things work together for our good, to those who love Him and who are called for His Purpose, it's certainly not a stretch at all to understand that He took care of all things that needed taken care of. Also, certainly not a stretch for the One who spoke all things into existence.

Yes, that is certainly true and could be summed up in one word, logic. But also in truth, that verse is taken out of context and doesn't apply here. But, it is a great section in Romans letting us know that we were saved before the foundation of the Earth. So there is not a church on the Earth that can give me anything I don't all ready have. I know I am Spirit and that my Spirit is above the Angels in the ladder of hierarchy, so therefore, I am a Son of God.

Now back to the program. Is there not a logical explanation for this Flood business, or do we explain it away through emotion. The Hopi's like to talk about it and they sure seem more reasonable in their explanation than most churches do. And as Antelope Sniper posted, the Sumerians were the first ones on the planet to write about it.

I'm a Christian trained in science and I realize, fully, that the hydrological cycle as we know it exists does not support the idea that a flood could have covered the entire land mass of the planet. There is simply not enough physical water on the planet to do it, and the amount required is far beyond anything that could be jettisoned through natural means.

So either ...
1) There was a miracle by God to accomplish the flood. (I fully accept miracles. For example, I don't doubt for a second that Christ was raised from the dead).
2) The Noah story is allegorical.

I'm okay with either explanation. I don't know, and I honestly don't understand the Noah account. I can live with this small uncertainty.

The bottom line is that there is such an enormous amount of solid rational evidence that I don't doubt for a minute in the existence of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and that he is who he says He is. I literally have no doubts about His existence and that the world is raging a battle of spiritual turmoil for the hearts and souls of men.

Sorry AS, but God isn’t relying on any of us and our opinions nor our heavenly justice system.