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Campfire Outfitter
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... As for sea friendly, I doubt he gave a damn about comfort. Survival was the design parameters. "Comfort" implies luxury. That's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the difference between getting knocked off your feet, slammed against walls, and puking continuously. Kind of hard to eat under those conditions. Makes survival kind of questionable. Need more room because the boat doesn't have square corners? Make a bigger boat. Appears you and the people behind that program spent little time in boats. But then...maybe the waters were dead calm the whole time (miracle). But that brings up the question, why bother with a boat instead of miraculously saving them on a miraculous mountain top? Or why have a flood at all? Why not just miraculously snap fingers and proclaim all the evil people dead? There you go making assumptions without any facts to back them up. I happen to like boats. I rebuilt a sailboat and taught my son to sail, and even taught him how to right a sailboat in deep water. I helped in the reconstruction of a steel hull 30' cabin cruiser as well. You have no basis for your assumption.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,259
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,259 |
....I think it's safe to assume that Noah had knowledge of proper boat construction....
... I'm going to assume that people of Noah's time weren't as ignorant as most people think...
Nothing I can find in scriptures shows Noah personally had proper knowledge of boat construction. [regardless of shape, size or otherwise] or to use your words.... That is simply not supported by the information available. but if you have scriptural evidence to support what you call a safe assumption, you make like to present it to CF readers. without reasonable evidence , it would just be mere conjecture on your part.
Obviously, a vessel that size would require different timber than a small vessel could get away with...
Can you clarify what you mean by 'different ' timber.? and what relative size do you mean by a small vessel?
...we don't know precisely what God told Noah. We can only make conjecture based on what is written and our assumptions.
actually We do know from scripture that God had given Noah some very specific details for the Ark. OALxWxH dimensions...rooms, ...a roof...where to position the window,...number of decks ..side door, .gopherwood, tar inside /out. etc nothing in scripture says God gave him any other details on construction than the Book lists. accordingly I am not inclined to create conjecture that we are missing out on details that God gave Noah on construction , but didnt give us.More... 1) Scripture says nothing explanatory about the dynamics of moving water against displacement vessels. It says nothing about superior strength of curved surfaces vs box corners. It says nothing about the physical dangers (injury, starvation, etc) of spending months trapped inside a carnival ride. Yet....they exist. Limiting the discussion to what is in scripture is an attempt to control the discussion and shape it's outcome. Nice try. 2) Small vessel = personal or family-sized watercraft, such as what might be used to travel small bodies of water. There is no mention of commercial navigation prior to the flood - so, by your standard, it must not have happened. Now, why would they have anything larger? As for the timber.....surely, you jest. Different = larger, stronger, taller (longer), denser...and/or other. I can build a usable boat with no other wood but pine saplings. It ain't going to be very big though, and it ain't going to haul much of a load. 3)Why you would think that God has told us everything that he told Noah is a mystery to me. He has told us what we need to know, at least, but clearly has not told us everything. And BTW - there you go again....
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,259
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,259 |
... As for sea friendly, I doubt he gave a damn about comfort. Survival was the design parameters. "Comfort" implies luxury. That's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the difference between getting knocked off your feet, slammed against walls, and puking continuously. Kind of hard to eat under those conditions. Makes survival kind of questionable. Need more room because the boat doesn't have square corners? Make a bigger boat. Appears you and the people behind that program spent little time in boats. But then...maybe the waters were dead calm the whole time (miracle). But that brings up the question, why bother with a boat instead of miraculously saving them on a miraculous mountain top? Or why have a flood at all? Why not just miraculously snap fingers and proclaim all the evil people dead? There you go making assumptions without any facts to back them up. I happen to like boats. I rebuilt a sailboat and taught my son to sail, and even taught him how to right a sailboat in deep water. I helped in the reconstruction of a steel hull 30' cabin cruiser as well. You have no basis for your assumption. Not an assumption. I expected that you might correct that observation. The "appearance" was there, base on your apparent lack of understanding how the issue goes beyond "comfort". So - how much time have you spent on a boat in rough water? In different hull shapes (round vs flat)? Personally - I've been all over the map with that.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109 |
... As for sea friendly, I doubt he gave a damn about comfort. Survival was the design parameters. "Comfort" implies luxury. That's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the difference between getting knocked off your feet, slammed against walls, and puking continuously. Kind of hard to eat under those conditions. Makes survival kind of questionable. Need more room because the boat doesn't have square corners? Make a bigger boat. Appears you and the people behind that program spent little time in boats. But then...maybe the waters were dead calm the whole time (miracle). But that brings up the question, why bother with a boat instead of miraculously saving them on a miraculous mountain top? Or why have a flood at all? Why not just miraculously snap fingers and proclaim all the evil people dead? There you go making assumptions without any facts to back them up. I happen to like boats. I rebuilt a sailboat and taught my son to sail, and even taught him how to right a sailboat in deep water. I helped in the reconstruction of a steel hull 30' cabin cruiser as well. You have no basis for your assumption. Not an assumption. I expected that you might correct that observation. The "appearance" was there, base on your apparent lack of understanding how the issue goes beyond "comfort". So - how much time have you spent on a boat in rough water? In different hull shapes (round vs flat)? Personally - I've been all over the map with that. Not much on rough seas, had enough sense not to. Been out in the Gulf a couple times, but mostly lakes, and rivers. Not that it matters much. With a means of propulsion, many things can serve as a boat. But I find no sails, oars, or outboard motors in the directions given to Noah. Gopher wood or cypress, 3 decks, rooms, a window. And a door for loading, and dimensions. Nothing about going anywhere, just riding out the flood waters.in essence a life boat. He was no sailor, and could not have made use of a "better" hull design, even if he knew how to build it. https://goo.gl/images/xBk3Yo
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,259
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,259 |
Everyone is a sailor when the wind comes up. Some good, some bad. Lack of a sail doesn't stop the wind from moving your boat. Get out in a canoe on a windy day and check it out. If your canoe is symmetrical and trimmed evenly, you'll be blown sideways across the waves. Give it a rudder or skeg (mounted or in hand), and you'll be blown mostly downwind with the waves. With a good amount of rocker or dead-rise to the stems, it will be less likely to dig in and broach. These things make for a more survivable ride, even - or especially - without propulsion.
It's basic stuff.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 8,109 |
Everyone is a sailor when the wind comes up. Some good, some bad. Lack of a sail doesn't stop the wind from moving your boat. Get out in a canoe on a windy day and check it out. If your canoe is symmetrical and trimmed evenly, you'll be blown sideways across the waves. Give it a rudder or skeg (mounted or in hand), and you'll be blown mostly downwind with the waves. With a good amount of rocker or dead-rise to the stems, it will be less likely to dig in and broach. These things make for a more survivable ride, even - or especially - without propulsion.
It's basic stuff. So does a basic sea anchor. But that is pretty much the point. He was at the mercy of wind and wave, and not a lot he could do about it, other than just ride it out, with only the most basic steerage.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,259
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,259 |
Everyone is a sailor when the wind comes up. Some good, some bad. Lack of a sail doesn't stop the wind from moving your boat. Get out in a canoe on a windy day and check it out. If your canoe is symmetrical and trimmed evenly, you'll be blown sideways across the waves. Give it a rudder or skeg (mounted or in hand), and you'll be blown mostly downwind with the waves. With a good amount of rocker or dead-rise to the stems, it will be less likely to dig in and broach. These things make for a more survivable ride, even - or especially - without propulsion.
It's basic stuff. So does a basic sea anchor. But that is pretty much the point. He was at the mercy of wind and wave, and not a lot he could do about it, other than just ride it out, with only the most basic steerage. Gonna have to run that by Starman. I don't recall any mention of sea anchor in Genesis. 
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109 |
Everyone is a sailor when the wind comes up. Some good, some bad. Lack of a sail doesn't stop the wind from moving your boat. Get out in a canoe on a windy day and check it out. If your canoe is symmetrical and trimmed evenly, you'll be blown sideways across the waves. Give it a rudder or skeg (mounted or in hand), and you'll be blown mostly downwind with the waves. With a good amount of rocker or dead-rise to the stems, it will be less likely to dig in and broach. These things make for a more survivable ride, even - or especially - without propulsion.
It's basic stuff. So does a basic sea anchor. But that is pretty much the point. He was at the mercy of wind and wave, and not a lot he could do about it, other than just ride it out, with only the most basic steerage. Gonna have to run that by Starman. I don't recall any mention of sea anchor in Genesis. Nope, and no mention of how to stow it all away for best ballest either. "Just get it done, and you'll be hearing from me." My minister told me "God never gives you more than you can handle, but he does test your limits, to expose your metal".
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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