|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002 |
Say a fellow was to build a 26" barreled 358 Winchester or 338 Federal , how much of a velocity gain would he stand to get over 22" barreled version.?
Let's say it would be slinging 200's/225's/250's.
Or
The 338 Federal running 185'/220's/210's.
"I'd rather have an Army of Asses led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by an Ass." (George Washington)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,193
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,193 |
Starting at 26" you'd lose about 50 FPS per inch with medium burn and mid weight projectiles.
TRUMP- GABBARD 2024
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748 |
In my experience it’s about 25 FPS/in.
For the 338 Fed, a 180/185 runs high 2700s out of a 23” barrel, 210s are 2600. Add about 75fps to that and I think you’ll be real close for a 26” tube.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,336
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,336 |
There is not enough velocity loss from a shorter barrel to have to put up with a 26 inch barrel.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,672 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,672 Likes: 6 |
Starting at 26" you'd lose about 50 FPS per inch with medium burn and mid weight projectiles.
Fake news.
WWP53D
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 429
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 429 |
scott, that’s just kooky talk. The last few posters are right on. Why screw around with a long tube for just a minimal gain in velocity that will really gain you nothing with the chamberings you’re talking about. If you want to huck bullets at higher velocities, just get something with more engine room and stick with a shorter handier package. Just my .02
Because through judicious handloading and a bold sense of optimism, you can make anything into an .88 Magnum - once! 😁 - chesterpulley
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,787 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,787 Likes: 6 |
The .358 Win is a very efficient round and gain/loss per inch are going to be fairly small compared to many rounds. The thread below has some numbers (shot from 2 different rifles/barrels so that may make a little difference): https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6601301/1
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,933 Likes: 23
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,933 Likes: 23 |
Answer to question: With mid speed powders and 168 grain bullets a comparison across my various 308's shows about 25 fps/inch. The 358 will likely show that or even less.
Opinion: If I didn't mind the extra weight of a 26" barrel I'd take the steel of the last 4" and use it in a heavier contour 22" barrel.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002 |
scott, that’s just kooky talk. The last few posters are right on. Why screw around with a long tube for just a minimal gain in velocity that will really gain you nothing with the chamberings you’re talking about. If you want to huck bullets at higher velocities, just get something with more engine room and stick with a shorter handier package. Just my .02 I know, was thinking of trying to get a little more heat out of a Savage 99, I've got a line on a donor and a 358 rotor in my possession. Since there is nothing to be gained, 20" - 22" is where I guess I'll land.
"I'd rather have an Army of Asses led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by an Ass." (George Washington)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748 |
Bullets from a 22” 338Fed tend to go through critters quite well. Another 75fps would be nice, but won’t them any more dead. I’ve held 26” barreled rifles that felt quite good. I wouldn’t discount the idea. Do whatever works for you. For the same weight I’d rather have a longer barrel.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002 |
Thanks prm, That's the other thing. My 99/300 is 24" and hangs and handles well. So I was considering that if going to a slightly larger bore (.338/.358), barrel weight would be less (if same contour). Plus, when running irons, the extra radius may be advantageous. Asking and thinking out loud... Guess another way to gain some speed would be to run a 99C set up (magazine) for the 284 Win case...necked to 338/358. In essence a short 338-06/35 Whelen. I'm a little quicker with follow ups when running a lever...was my thinking
"I'd rather have an Army of Asses led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by an Ass." (George Washington)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I can’t imagine giving up one of the 358’s significant advantages to try to achieve what other options can do so much better.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
....... a minimal gain in velocity that will really gain you nothing with the chamberings you’re talking about.
If you want to huck bullets at higher velocities, just get [/b]something with more engine room[b] and stick with a shorter handier package. Just my .02
To put this in layman's terms. The 358 doesn't have a large powder magazine (capacity) to benefit much in 4" of additional barrel length. Where you see the gain/loss in longer/shorter barrels is in rounds LIKE 25-06 / 270 / 06 and the magnums. The 308 suffers from the same limited powder capacity. AS your bore increases in dia. the longer barrel does NOT add a lot to vel. increase *** in small capacity cases***. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
358wsm -
The 4" extra radius will have surprisingly little effect over a 22" radius.
Assume you can align the irons so that the front sight is no more than 1/32" to the side of dead-on-target. (If you have decent sights you can probably do better.) At 100 yards that translates to the difference between 5.11" for a 22" sight radius and 4.32 for a 26" radius - a difference of only 0.79". If that distance is critical, I suggest using glass instead of irons.
The diameter of a standard clay pigeon is 108mm or 4.25". Using the ghost ring sight on my 16.1" barreled Ruger Scout .308, I can hit a clay at 100 about 80-85% of the time. I can't do that well with the irons on my 20" barreled Browning B92 in .44 Mag. The sights make a much bigger difference for me than the sight radius.
Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 07/17/18. Reason: . not ,
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002 |
I can’t imagine giving up one of the 358’s significant advantages to try to achieve what other options can do so much better. Kilk, Ya got a way with words.! Beautiful Moose.!
"I'd rather have an Army of Asses led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by an Ass." (George Washington)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002 |
358wsm -
The 4" extra radius will have surprisingly little effect over a 22" radius.
Assume you can align the irons so that the front sight is no more than 1/32" to the side of dead-on-target. (If you have decent sights you can probably do better.) At 100 yards that translates to the difference between 5.11" for a 22" sight radius and 4.32 for a 26" radius - a difference of only 0.79". If that distance is critical, I suggest using glass instead of irons.
The diameter of a standard clay pigeon is 108mm or 4.25". Using the ghost ring sight on my 16.1" barreled Ruger Scout .308, I can hit a clay at 100 about 80-85% of the time. I can't do that well with the irons on my 20" barreled Browning B92 in .44 Mag. The sights make a much bigger difference for me than the sight radius.
CH, I'm picking up what you're laying down. Very well explained.
"I'd rather have an Army of Asses led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by an Ass." (George Washington)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,817
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,817 |
Say a fellow was to build a 26" barreled 358 Winchester or 338 Federal , how much of a velocity gain would he stand to get over 22" barreled version.?
Let's say it would be slinging 200's/225's/250's.
Or
The 338 Federal running 185'/220's/210's.
..............Keep your barrel length 20" to 22".....Although an extra 4" to 6" gains you more velocity, it really gains you nothing extra in the field where any practicality is concerned. And I'll bet that the bulk of your hunting distances using a 358 WSM won't exceed 200-250 yards anyway?? The 358 WSM imo, is a medium to a medium/long ranged cartridge at best. And imo, the shorter barrel better matches the round and will be much handier in the field as well.
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,228 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,228 Likes: 2 |
Both chamberings beg for a 20”-22” snout.
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,817
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,817 |
Say a fellow was to build a 26" barreled 358 Winchester or 338 Federal , how much of a velocity gain would he stand to get over 22" barreled version.?
Let's say it would be slinging 200's/225's/250's.
Or
The 338 Federal running 185'/220's/210's.
..............Keep your barrel length 20" to 22".....Although an extra 4" to 6" gains you more velocity, it really gains you nothing extra in the field where any practicality is concerned. And I'll bet that the bulk of your hunting distances using a 358 WSM won't exceed 200-250 yards anyway?? The 358 WSM imo, is a medium to a medium/long ranged cartridge at best. And imo, the shorter barrel better matches the round and will be much handier in the field as well. .....................Also applies to the 338 Federal
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
|
|
|
|
612 members (10gaugemag, 1100mag, 12344mag, 10gaugeman, 01Foreman400, 56 invisible),
19,070
guests, and
1,344
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,980
Posts18,540,013
Members74,052
|
Most Online21,066 51 seconds ago
|
|
|
|