Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters State of the art mountain rifle

I have noticed several new trends about what is state-of-the-art for a mountain rifle.

3. The new “perfect” mountain game cartridge is the 6.5 PRC. There is lots of chatter about how great it is. Well according to Johnny B’s measurements it has 3 or so grains less capacity than a 6.5-06. Hornady lists its pressure tested factory ammo with the 143 EldX at around 2950 from a 24” barrel. Of course many of the sophisticates are claiming 3100+ with their special recipes.

2. Gunwerks is promoting 20” barrels for the ideal mountain rig. They suggest the 6.5 PRC as an optimal setup.

I understand the 6.5 fascination because of the very high BC’s bullets which are being made but most of those bullets have pretty fragile cup and core designs. In the tougher bullets, the BC’s are similar to the .277 and .284 bullets.

Appears to me that a 6.5-06, or a .277-06, or a 7-06 is about “just right”.

Cactus Jack must be grinning at the “progress” being made.

I’m going to grab a bag of popcorn and watch the flailing that’s about to happen Rick... we’re going to end up fighting a couple inches and a 55 ftlbs at 535 yards

All about the marketing! There are also a lot more long range capable guns than capable shooters, truth be told!

Scott
Remember author John Jobson’s theory about MYSTIC KILLING POWER. Then you will understand.

An old hunting buddy was determined to get his 22” 270 to move 130 Partitions at 3220. I will sent a photo to you if you will post it, please. Cheers.

Sheep, unlike the glamorized tales of gun writers, are fortunately not all that difficult to kill.

I packed a Remington Model 700 classic in 7mm Weatherby on my one and probably only sheep hunt in the Brooks range. It did the trick aand the weight never bothered me. Although, I was only 15 and bullet proof at that time.

Here it is Rick!

My pal also said in reference to his 30/06 with 165’s: “3000 or bust. I just love seeing all those zeros.” Fortunately that rifle was a NULA and he settled on Lapua cases. Otherwise he might have had another 270/3220 experience.

The case on the right is from a run of brass made by Norma for the 460 G & A. All that took was a very thick checkbook and industry connections. My pal had one but stopped adding powder when the 500 grain bullets got to 2325. The very stout recoil saved him adding more powder.

Based upon my observations of Alaskan sheep hunters over the last 53 years. It don't much matter, what matters is a hard head, determination, a good set of legs and lungs and often the younger the better, to a point. So a good mountain set up can be a 30-06, .308 Win, a 280 Rem., a .270 Win., a 7-08 Rem. and the 6.5 PRC. in a light weight rifle, say under 8 pounds loaded and scoped.

Maybe it depends some what on where you are hunting. Grizzly bears love the high country and about every ardent Alaskan sheep hunter I have known sooner or later bumps one some where. Few I know have had to shoot the bear, but it has happened. So for me, I would want something I believe would take care of and aggressive grizzly. The 6.5 family is about my personal minimum and the 7mm and .308 family is even better with the right bullet and case capacity.

Normally it is wise to have a reliable hunting partner when heading into remote country and living out of a back pack, so often there are two rifles that can be depended on. But, maybe the 6.5 PRC in a light weight set up is the answer, but it ain't the only answer. Still, if I was young again and had the cash and planned on hunting high and living out of a back pack, I would look hard at the 6.5 PRC.

When my Dad was 62 years old he carried his beloved old Mod. 70 in .264 Win. Mag. into the Boyden Hills near the Wrangell's and shot a sheep. That rifle had a 26" barrel and a 2-8 Baush & Lomb scope with the adjustments in the bases. Those rings and bases were a serious chunk of iron and I am sure it was a 10 lb. rifle. Light never crossed his mind, different era for sure.

What would happen if some one stuffed a 7mm bullet in the 6.5 PRC case? Or should we just live with the .280 Ackley Improved?

where is that article where Craig Boddington used an 8mm Rem Mag on an overseas sheep hunt... somewhere in Asia as I recall...

I have saved tons of money from reading the Campfire... so many rifle/cartridge combinations I have not bought... because the saner side of the Campfire talks me off the ledge. I keep coming back to my M700 CDL in 280 Remington... it will accomplish any hunting task i am capable of doing, and accompany me anywhere i am capable of walking...

Why do folks only think sheep or goats when mountain hunting? Plenty of grizz are killed in the mountains the majority of elk are killed in the mountains. Not a big fan of a 6.5 anything for either

Rick,

The big driver of the recent 6.5 cartridges hasn't been hunting, but competition shooting--just as it's been in scope development, and rifle development. Even if the buyer's supposedly buying the rifle for hunting, most are actually competing with their buddies who have all the latest hot gear.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is an exception, because it filled a hunting niche between the .243 and .270, with heavier bullets than the .243 and lighter recoil than the .270. But the PRC name stands for Precision Rifle Cartridge, which plays right into the Precision Rifle Series.

Does it do anything the 6.5-06 doesn't? No, except provide consistent chamber dimensions, a factory cartridge between the 6.5x55/.260/6.5 Creedmoor and the .264 Winchester, 26 Nosler and 6.5-300 Weatherby.

Exactly. My Sheep Rifle is a 280 AI that weighs 7.0 lbs. Shoots & totes like a dream.

I always thought the .257 Roberts filled the niche between the .243 and the .270

John,
You are correct about the equipment race. The guys who assemble 6.5 PRCs are really busy as are the high end scope makers. More grist for the mill. Folly or vanity wrote...was that Solomon or Shakespeare?

Humans will always pursue what the ultimate technology, whether it makes any real difference in the quality of their lives. Or where they place in the PRS....

That said, Fedex says I have a trusted Remington 700 "short action magnum" with a new Lilja barrel chambered in 6.5 PRC showing up mid-week. And yes, it will be a pretty damn light "mountain rifle."

But unlike Stuart, I make my living (such as it is) doing this sort of stuff.

I also have made a living over the past four decades in the industry and see fully the wisdom in the old cliche that the Indian is more important than the arrow.

I reviewed some of the online stuff about the PRC and those who recommend are suggesting that it is just great for anything that lives in the “mountains” like elk moose etc. Not just a sheep rifle. Others think adequate starts with something like a 28 Nosler and a 300 RUM is just right. Humm 🤔.

John,
I will be very interested to know what you learn given what I just read in chapter 14 pages 169-170 of RIFLE TROUBLE-SHOOTING AND HANDLOADING. Those of you who don’t have a copy might want to purchase one before it is out of print. I do recall the author of that fine book posting on this very forum that the water capacity of the 6.5 PRC is about equal to the water capacity of the 6.5-06. I want to know how to get 3100+ with 143 grain bullets and stay within 65,000 psi.

"Humans will always pursue what the ultimate technology, whether [or not] it makes any real difference in the quality of their lives."

Well said John

"State of the Art" has come to mean "most resent offering". Not something better, but something that can earn larger profits faster.

"Better" to me means higher quality. If you offer me a less reliable or less long-lived action, with a 20% more accurate barrel in it, and hold it up in comparison to a rifle that is 20% less accurate, but still 200% more accurate then I am when I am shooting at game in the mountains, I have trouble saying its "better" in any way that matters. If fact when I look at the quality of (as an example) an 1898 Krag and compare it to most rifles made today, saying the modern one is Better may be a stretch. Stronger? Yes. Flatter shooting? Yes.

"State of the Art" in the vernacular of today and "better" are not the same concept. A Glock pistol may be "state of the art" and may be a better choice to arm soldiers in a combat zone then a S&W New Century 44 Special (called the Triple Lock) but if you hold one in your left hand and one in your right hand, you will see instantly which one was made "better".

Many (or most) times it not even as good as what came before.

I have friends and clients who come to hunt every year who own some fiber-wrapped barreled rifles which are super accurate and weight less then 6.5 pounds with the scope, fully loaded and with a sling on. Thy are really cool rifles and I like them.

But when I shoot them without a bench rest I can't tell any difference between them and several of my own rifles by group size on paper. In comparison to all my rifles but 2 (one of my 270s and my 25-06) they are more accurate, but shooting from prone over a back-pack all my groups (and all theirs too) are the same size shooting their state of the art rifles and my old pre-war, customized M98 Mausers.
I do not say such rifles are not state of the art. Indeed they are. But for what they are used for, hunting in the mountains, they are not better. In fact without the bench rest, some times I have seen a bit tighter groups from my Mausers because they weight 1-1/2 pounds more, and it's easier to hold them steady with a bit more weight. My 25- 06 is only 7.25 pounds and Randy's 260 super light is 6.2 pounds. I have not yet seen any lack of merit from my 25-06 that makes me want to go get one and at just over 7 pounds I have never thought it was too heavy. Not even once.

I think "state of the art" is more about simple interest. "I want therefore I need"
THAT is BY FAR the best reason to get a new gun. Justifying it because it's "better" is a failing proposition however, and is self diluting. We get new cool guns because they are new and cool.

Free men get what they like and want.

Steve,

The motto of our quarterly on-line magazine, RIFLE LOONY NEWS, is "Need has nothing to do with it." We have that embroidered on the vests that we wear to gun shows.

In fact that could be the reason for 24hourcampfire.com....