Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Having trouble to shoot a nice group

I am trying to sight in a Winchester M70 in 30-06 at 100 yards and I use Caldwell rifle rest sandbag to stabilize the rifle.
I use Remington Core Lokt in 150 and 180 gr for this rifle. What I found out was, I had trouble to shoot a nice group constantly.

I started with 180gr and after initial sight in steps, I was able to group the shots at 100 yards. I got two shots touching each other, but the third shot was somewhere 1-inch northeast. This pattern continued when I switch to 150 grain since many folks told me it would be easier for my shoulder. What's interesting was, I need to adjust the windage when switching to 150 gr, I would have never thought that's the case, maybe the drag? Anyway, I have the same trouble to shoot a nice 3-shot group or 5-shot group. It's always the first two shots were fantastic.

I think I have the windage correctly, the bullet always go higher after two shots...

What are your thoughts?

Is your rest one of those cradle things? The rifle may be moving out of position after the first two shots. Have you tried it with just a front rest?

I use these bags. And yes, the rifle moves out of position after every shot, and always need to re-aim it.

You're learning a good basic lesson early. Anytime you change ammo components, you will need to check where they hit on a target!

This means ammo brands, bullet styles, bullet weights, even a different brand of primer. Some loads will hit sort of in the same place as another, but this is only a coincidence, normally changing any part of a load can cause a different point of impact.

Save yourself a lot of frustration, try out several different loads you think fit your hunting/shooting needs. Now, that your scope setting is getting hits somewhere on the paper, don't change the scope settings again until you've selected the best shot group load. Then set your scope to that load only.

After you've selected a load, shoot a clean target and allow your barrel to cool down in between shots. As the barrel heats up it can cause the bullets to scatter on a target. Some people time their shots at the range allowing 3 to 5 minutes minimum between shots when testing to choose a load.
HAPPY HUNTING

That target looks like your back bag is too soft.

Point of impact differences at 100y is as a result of barrel vibrations and not bullet drag. If your barrel is touching the stock as in 'not free' floated that could cause stringing. Glass bedding and free floating could help consistency. Did you give the barrel time to cool? If you did not give the barrel time to cool take your time and shoot a 'very' slow 3 shot group and see if it make a difference. I would recommend a good rear bag also.

How long are you waiting between shots? Some barrels are more temp sensitive and require cooling. If this is your hunting rifle then the first two touching should be more than adequate to get the job done.

Hot barrels don’t “walk” shots or “scatter” shots unless there is something wrong with the barrel. A properly stress relieved barrel will continue placing rounds within the true group size until it melts (until it gets so hot that you have barrel droop).

I use a lead sled to get close, then check with bags if it’s a new scope.

To answer your questions:

1. I didn't let the barrel to cool down within 3-4 shots. I thought it looks heavy barrel (win model 70) and it won't heat up so quickly.

2. The barrel is not free floated as pre 64 model 70 the barrel is fixed on the stock

Not all pre 64 Mdl 70s have the barrel boss and configured with the associated forearm action screw (think featherweights). Might be worthwhile to try messing with the forearm screw torque level on your Mdl 70 or remove it to see what happens.

The first thing I would do is to adjust the rear bag so that the bottom of the pistol grip won’t hit it as the rifle recoils. Same thing with the front swivel...make sure it isn’t hitting the front bag during recoil.

3 things. It is a factory barrel that might not be that great to start with (answering your stress relieving theory), then why would anyone ever spend time floating n rifle barrel then? (You say a hot barrel touching the stock or barrel channel won't change the point of impact ever) Finally, taking only part of my post into account is pretty pointless like with anything we read!

Its not the bag. I'm curious as to how it's bedded. There's also probably too much pressure, or uneven pressure on the barrel. Formid is right in his post, but only when dealing with a freefloated barrel. The stock appears to be unoriginal to that rifle. At this point, I'd pillar bed and freefloat the barrel on that rifle. You'll probably have a sub moa shooter then, if done right... furthermore, I'd pull that damn 2.5-8 off, get rid of those qd's and start over. Leopold DD's would be better.

And this is why the idea of having one bolt action rifle for all uses is such a compromise. You got your classic beauty of a big game hunting rifle. Now you need a cheap ugly range toy that’s easy to shoot groups. Maybe a RAR Predator in .223 would be a better investment than better bags or a lead sled.

That’s not a Model 70 in that pic, and I have a couple Nula’s that move around little when shot without waiting and they are FLB.

Have a Kimber FLB, and within its around 1 Moa capabilities, it doesn’t care all that much about being shot quickly either.

If I had to wait 3-5 minutes between shots to get a rifle to group it would either get fixed or be gone.

Battue brings up a good point about FL bedding. When done right, it's great. I would venture to say this old model 70 has uneven pressure/stress on that barrel, that is helping to throw those shots out of the group. I'm still curious to see how the rifle is bedded and how much tension that forend screw has on it.. im also wondering the same thing about the rifle pictured. It doesnt even appear to be a pre 64, as the op stated. More details on the rifle are definitely in order..

Scope?

this is the actual rifle.


The Scope is leupold vx 2 4-12.

I haven't unscrewed the stock yet. I believe everything is factory setting

That’s the first thing I’d swap out...