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Posts: 15,698 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,698 Likes: 4 |
If they can sell them for $15 in NZ they can be that cheap here, providing the gooberment dosn't tax them exorbitantly. Figure that they will still have an 11% P-R excise tax on them that all shooting and outdoor related products have.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
You know more about metallurgy and machining than I do but I don't see suppressors selling for $20 stateside.
I can buy lots of things in foreign countries for cheap. Those prices don't translate in the US.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
And let's ballpark a demand increase of about 200% when the stamp/bullschit thing hypothetically disappears.
How many years before supply meets demand? Five? Ten? During that time prices will spike like crazy. Think 22LR shortage +p. You think after a decade of seeing people happily spend $500 or $600 on a $300 product that manufacturers are gonna drop it down to $50? And if they do, how many years before that happens?
And make no mistake, the tax ain't what keeps people from buying a can. It's the process. Your numbers are a bit extreme. I'd say with the big companies jumping in and start ups and imports, 2-3 years before the ratio flips. You can bet the big companies in the U.S. already have plans of the board. Europe has a dozen or so companies. Taurus in Brazil can be expected to jump in. All these companies already have marketing chains and import chains established. Plus the fact that these are rather simple. The over barrel is a bit more complicated but not really complicated. I bet if you had 5 suitable CNC machines you could crank the out by the hundreds. I would not assume that legislators will allow for the importation of the products. If "deregulated." Which is a serious misuse of the word in my opinion. They're still going to be serialized and require a 4473.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
AR's are available for $399.00 right now and were $1000.00 and up 5 years ago. There won't be a supply issue if demand spikes because it's a simple item to make and manufacturing will ramp up quick. Stamped parts as opposed to machined, cheap steel as opposed to titanium etc.... No different than a $50 take off plastic stock and a $600 McMillan or a $20 knife and a custom Ingram.
If they sell that cheap in the UK, NZ and Austin, it'll be no different here. If nothing else, all those cheap suppressors that are being marketed overseas will find their way to our shores quickly. Start schitting $50 22LR cans that keep you out of the red. I'd love to see them.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,309 |
suppressors are going to continue to be a luxury item bought in this country as an accessory by gun people not just the average fudd with a few long guns. I doubt they ever get to the point that they cost the same money as a cheap pocket knife or a box of ammo.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,273 |
<snip> ...but I don't see suppressors selling for $20 stateside. </snip>
Nor do I. But, I do have a CNC machining background, and once upon a time worked with a fully licensed individual on some can research. I got to see what went into some of the more volumetrically efficient cans of the 90's, as well as some legacy cans at that time. IMNSHO, Stainless cans for centerfire rifles, could easily be available at retail for less than $100. They'd be on the large size volumetrically, and they wouldn't be the most quiet, but they'd work pretty darn well for most peoples desires. Two end caps, some spacers, some flat baffles of varying thicknesses and a 9" long tube. Weld'em together in a fixture for alignment purposes and call it good. Not much to it. Want smaller, quieter or lighter? You're going to pay more. Chevy vs Cadillac, VW vs Mercedes Benz... Removing the NFA designation also makes it easy to legally DIY cans. No more Form 1 (if memory serves) needed.
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Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
So why is nobody making them?
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1 |
Because if you're willing to go through the year wait, the $200 stamp and the transfer fee you want a can that will last your lifetime?
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,641
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,641 |
There will never be over the counter suppressors.
Imagine a corporate oligarchy so effective, so advanced and fine tuned that its citizens still call it a democracy.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,285 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,285 Likes: 1 |
Removing the NFA designation also makes it easy to legally DIY cans. No more Form 1 (if memory serves) needed. Actually they will be handled as firearms. Manufacture of them without a license will be illegal just like manufacturing a gun is illegal. They will be on a 4473 and have a NICS check.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,696 Likes: 1 |
So if they have the 4473 and NICS check at POS, is it then treated like a firearm that is bought new, then sold down the road, say locally, that no 4473/background check needed? Dependent of course on which state or locality you live in?
Or does the sale have to go through an FFL dealer?
Last edited by diamondjim; 07/30/18.
____________________________________________________________ Dying gets closer every day
Lloyd McCarter and the Honky Tonk Revival
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Removing the NFA designation also makes it easy to legally DIY cans. No more Form 1 (if memory serves) needed. Actually they will be handled as firearms. Manufacture of them without a license will be illegal just like manufacturing a gun is illegal. They will be on a 4473 and have a NICS check. You can make your own firearm at home as long as it is not sold. Scott is saying you may be able to do that with a can if the bill passed.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
So if they have the 4473 and NICS check at POS, is it then treated like a firearm that is bought new, then sold down the road, say locally, that no 4473/background check needed? Dependent of course on which state or locality you live in?
Or does the sale have to go through an FFL dealer?
My understanding is that they will be treated the exact same as a firearm. All state laws apply.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,618 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,618 Likes: 16 |
Even if the market demand for suppressors only grows 5X after deregulation, prices will drop. Not willingly. Maybe not quickly. But the prices will drop. As noted above, there is probably a fair amount of good baffle technology that is now past end of patent life. If someone can get 75% to 80% of the sound reduction out of a suppressor that only costs 30% to 50% of a "state of the art" can, there's a market for that. Just look at the RAR's...Off top of my head, I can not think of a single market where increased production and increased competition did not lead to lower prices... Demand would grow at least 100x, maybe even more. You wouldn't be able to get anything done at a gunsmith for 5 years because they would all be threading barrels 24x7.Interesting concept, and probably not far from the truth.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Because if you're willing to go through the year wait, the $200 stamp and the transfer fee you want a can that will last your lifetime? I'm sure there are a handful of idiots that will want to thread an oil filter onto the end of their Glock but I'm pretty sure that market will dry up real quick. Having purchased suppressors I want something that is functional. Not some 7th grade shop project hanging off the end of my barrel. And I'd love to see the $100 can that handles .300 Win Mag. If you guys have that figured out and can turn a profit you might want to start looking for investors.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Even if the market demand for suppressors only grows 5X after deregulation, prices will drop. Not willingly. Maybe not quickly. But the prices will drop. As noted above, there is probably a fair amount of good baffle technology that is now past end of patent life. If someone can get 75% to 80% of the sound reduction out of a suppressor that only costs 30% to 50% of a "state of the art" can, there's a market for that. Just look at the RAR's...Off top of my head, I can not think of a single market where increased production and increased competition did not lead to lower prices... Demand would grow at least 100x, maybe even more. You wouldn't be able to get anything done at a gunsmith for 5 years because they would all be threading barrels 24x7.Interesting concept, and probably not far from the truth. I would think most gun owners would have a better grasp of supply and demand after eight years of Obama but it would appear not. Everybody still seems to think you can just "ramp up" production.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,618 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,618 Likes: 16 |
If this tax stamp crap ever goes away you will see manufacturing from every direction building and selling suppressors
Prices will come down The tax stamp is actually the biggest spur that sticks in my craw. I don't believe for a second the scat that's been talked about returning that cost to the consumer on every can bought after 2016. I'll believe that when I see it.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,618 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,618 Likes: 16 |
So if they have the 4473 and NICS check at POS, is it then treated like a firearm that is bought new, then sold down the road, say locally, that no 4473/background check needed? Dependent of course on which state or locality you live in?
Or does the sale have to go through an FFL dealer?
My understanding is that they will be treated the exact same as a firearm. All state laws apply. I would have no problem doing 4473's for suppressors, with processing the same as a firearm. To me, the tax stamp is nothing but a ripoff and has been since the '30's. And, I also don't have a problem paying more than $50 for a quality suppressor. None of mine were less than $400. Not at all interested in something mass produced in somebody's back yard.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
If this tax stamp crap ever goes away you will see manufacturing from every direction building and selling suppressors
Prices will come down The tax stamp is actually the biggest spur that sticks in my craw. I don't believe for a second the scat that's been talked about returning that cost to the consumer on every can bought after 2016. I'll believe that when I see it. I'd sacrafice my early expenditures, as long as we get the suppressors off the class 3 or whatever they are on soon, and no tax stamps, and all the paperwork. YES costs will come down. ANd you'll have a choice of a kia or a benz and all in between. Will they be 20 bucks, dunno, but if they were 100 or 200 for most cans and double that for the big rated cans I'd be happy as heck...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jun 2016
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2016
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I believe that if they are deregulated, more mfrs. will get into the game the price will decrease a certain amount.
But the $64,000 question is...…. isn't the safe hearing act about dead ? I don't think discussing this is too much of a thread drift, because the entire thought of lower priced cans depends on it.
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