Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Later New Haven M70s QC issues

I've read and heard that the later New Haven Model 70s, usually the 7+ digit rifles, suffered from quality issues which often manifested in poor accuracy. Or at best they were inconsistent in quality and accuracy.

I've never owned one and am curious what common quality problems were observed across these rifles. Were the actions lower quality (sloppy machining), poor chambering or rifling, bad bedding or stocks, all of the above, etc?

The older rifles are getting harder to find and the newer models seem to be more abundant but, I'd like to know what problems I can expect. So long as the actions are as solid as the older models, which is my primary concern, I'd think the other problematic areas could be fixed.

I had several New Haven Model 70’s, still have a couple. IMO not better or worse than other rifles at that price point at that time. Certainly better than current production Ruger 77/Hawkeye.
Personally I wouldn’t rush to judgment (or gunsmithing) over the first 3 rounds out of a new or used rifle. Many will settle in after 200 rounds.

QC issues of the 7 digit (2003-2006) rifles could be any combination of what you listed, or none at all.

Near new 5 and 6 digit Classics can still be found relatively reasonable if you're patient and watch gunbroker and guns international regularly.

I'd still take a 7 digit Classic over anything post '06 (Baco) just because of the trigger. The 7 digit issues (if any) can be fixed, but a Baco will never have a real Model 70 trigger.

I've never owned a 7 digit Model 70, but the three "problem children" rifles I've had were all G300K guns.

Two had rear bridges too low and one had the rear scope mount holes drilled off center. None could be zeroed as issued.

FWIW, the seven BACO Model 70s I've got were all good to go with bedding and trigger adjustment.

I've had a few 7 digit classics and they didn't differ from most 5 and 6 digit classics. I guess I'm lucky in that respect. First, none of the classics were bedded properly from the factory. If you really want to get down to the nitty gritty. Not a bid deal though. I always get rid of the "hot glue" bedding winchester used and replace it with devcon 10110 or similar bedding compound. It's an absolute must, since I like a rifle that gives me consistent accuracy. Second, the triggers really need to be fine tuned to get them down to around 2.5 pounds (the way I like a hunting rifle trigger to be). This includes the BACO (Browning Arms Co) rifles, hint.... Those even need an ernie the gunsmith spring installed to get them down to an appropriate pull weight. No they are not perfect right out of the box, sorry guys, just what I've seen with multiple EW's, featherweights and sporters. Now back to the 7 digit model 70's: I currently have 2 in the safe and they are both damn good shooting rifles. Keep in mind what I said earlier about glass bedding. One rifle is a stainless 7WSM and I did notice an anomaly with the drilled holes in the receiver. They are not 100% drilled in line with the bore. I'll admit this, but there was a real easy cure: Make sure the front ring mount is in perfect axial alignment with the bore. Then line up the rear mount, so it is in line with the front mount. In the case of my rifle, all it took was a slightly smaller head on the base screws for the rear mount. I use DD's and it was an easy adjustment. I lined up the scope alignment bars and I was in business. However, using the larger head screw, you could not get the rear to line up with the front. Again, not a big deal and an easy fix. I'm being perfectly honest with you guys here, as you should know there were some issues associated with some of the 7 digit rifles. As our friend (Bobin) used to tell us, they are damn good rifles once a competent smith has gone through them. And I agree to a certain extent. As for my most recent 7 digit, it's a beautiful 7mm08. I couldn't find a damn thing wrong with that rifle, except for the bedding. Here's a picture to show you guys how it looked:


You get the picture.. That's not good bedding. It cracks over time and just isn't reliable, thus causing spotty inconsistent accuracy. I always take care of these problems with this:



Not hard to do, once you've done a few... The triggers are even easier to fix, if you have patience and about 20 minutes. If it were me and I ran across another screaming deal like I got on my 7mm08 featherweight, I'd jump all over it. I would not be scared off just because it's a 7 digit:


I haven't had a lot of time to work with this rifle, but from what I have shot with it, it's looks damn promising. Barrels are usually really good on these classics (5-7 digit) and easy to get to shoot well. Just take the time to fix the bedding, trigger and make sure the bases and rings are lined up to the axis of the bore and you'll be golden... As far as extraction and ejection are concerned, I've yet to find a classic or pre 64 that didn't work as it should. I know I may be real lucky there, but that's just what I've experienced....

Nice post BSA! That's exactly the type of insight I was hoping for.

Anyone have any experience with the SS Ultimate Shadows? Were those NH or Baco rifles?

Just trying to keep it honest my friend.. I'm not going to try to blow smoke up someones azz, just because I prefer one thing over the other. Just not the way I do things... As far as the ultimate shadow question, they had classic ultimate shadows in blue and stainless. They came out around the introduction of the WSM (2001), they sported the duratouch stock that was light and grippy. Not really a bad stock in its time. Some stores like walmart carried the blued version and sold a lot of them. However, BACO carried the line of "ultimate shadows" until about 2015.

I'm eyeing a stainless in .270 WSM. Its a"Classic Ultimate Shadow". I'm assuming there's a difference between a Classic and a non-Classic Ultimate Shadow, the later being a Baco rifle??? Did the Classic come with the pre-64 style trigger?

I'm thinking about buying it and slapping it into an after market stock with a bedding job.

As you may remember, I bought a PBR-XP in .300 WSM earlier this year. I'm quite impressed with the rifle and cartridge and would like to try a .270 WSM. Principle use would be for deer out to 600 yards.

Yep, the "classic ultimate shadow" is a CRF rifle and has the old style trigger. If it is indeed a "classic". I also remember you buying that FN PBR, as I used to own one just like it. Those are damn good rifles. Basically a model 70 that has been fine tuned by FN Herstal. Don't confuse them with BACO, as they are not really the same thing. If your PBR is as good as the one I had, don't let it go like I foolishly did with mine. You'll have a hard time finding another 300wsm that shoots as good... A 270 WSM ultimate shadow would be cool beans. Hit me up if you do buy it and i'll send you some once fired brass for it...

I've had 4 or 5 of the 7 digit rifles with zero issues and recently traded into a New Haven Stainless 7 digit CRF 270 WSM. Serial #2452xxx with black synthetic (milk jug) stock and factory bedding. I slapped a SS 10x on it. She shoots and feeds fantastic.
Kinda like a woman or buying a used truck, you never know what surprises are coming but I wouldn't think twice about buying another 7 digit gun.
I've bought a few rifles, shotguns and pistols that needed some work done.

Thanks BSA, that's a class act offer!

I've also considered picking up another PBR-XP in .300 WSM and simply re-chambering it in .270 WSM. Do you think there's that much of a difference between the action on the Classic and PBR to warrant the extra effort and cost?

You would have to rebarrel. Probably what you meant. I like the FN PBR's, if they have the old style trigger. They are pretty nice too, but if you know how to do the work yourself, you would be better off buying a classic. It all depends on which one you can find cheaper though.. I am going to pick up a 6 digit classic fwt 30-06 for $575.00 here real shortly... Hard to beat that deal...

6 digit classic fwt '06 for $575 is a good buy. Those are good guns.

Of course most need tweaking a bit, but us Loonies love to do that.

I once traded for a gun that was about perfect, nothing at all for me to do and I looked pretty hard. Sorta felt cheated...

DF

I hear you on that.

The five digit guns I was around when new were terrible. Yet, I have recently played with some others, including seven digit guns, that are good. I suspect quality was spotty for the entire production run. When buying a Classic, I automatically plan to replace the barrel and do some work on the gun and if it's not cheap enough to consider that, I don't buy it. So far that has worked with a couple of pleasant surprises and a couple of stinkers. Winchester made some real crap during the Classic era.