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No. I did have a mortgage for a short while. I never said I was perfect.
So you leveraged credit. GOOD debt. And you think that was a mistake?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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True. There are people who cannot handle their money without very strict rules and they get tangled easily and are addicted to debt. Those people are who he is talking to. The next guy in my door might be a surgeon who only has debt on his house and it might be stupid to pay off a 4 percent note when it's tax deductible and he could make 12 percent in his mutual fund with that money, etc. There's a reason we have to fill out suitability forms. The plan has to fit that one individual or its a no go Dave is an idiot. That is all. He's made a lot of money while helping a lot of people. If that is what you call an idiot, then o.k. I guess. Do tell why you are so much smarter than the rest of us. I never said I was smarter than you. I said Dave is an idiot. If you think credit is bad, and youre too stupid to leverage credit, then yes, youre stupid and I am smarter than you. PA. It's important to understand Dave's audience. For the average person who's gotten themselves into trouble with too much debt, Dave's advise if very good. However, there is no one-size-fits-all solution for all people, and those who understand the Time Value of Money, and the proper application of the current cheap rates and how to properly manage that as part of a long term plan, there can be some opportunity for optimization, but again, that's not the choir to whom he's preaching. As for my few disagreements with Dave, MJB covered them off nicely, but again, there are not really area for self help, but best navigated with a professional.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 08/20/18.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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So you mean everyone was spending like a drunk college kid with Dad's credit card before Dave Ramsey came along??
He should have a Nobel Prize.
I am MAGA.
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Campfire Ranger
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No. I did have a mortgage for a short while. I never said I was perfect.
So you leveraged credit. GOOD debt. And you think that was a mistake? Yes. It was foolish. I paid interest to a mortgage company I could have kept for myself.
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Joined: Oct 2007
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PA. It's important to understand Dave's audience. For the average person who's gotten themselves into trouble with too much debt, Dave's advise if very good. However, there is no one-size-fits-all solution for all people, and those who understand the Time Value of Money, and the proper application of the current cheap rates and how to properly manage that as part of a long term plan, there can be some opportunity for optimization, but again, that's not the choir to whom he's preaching.
I understand Daves audience. And its hard to explain economics to people who are brainwashed. Daves pupils screw themselves left and right and dont even know it. They could have so much more in life, but the big bad devil debt scares the schit out of them. Shame.
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No. I did have a mortgage for a short while. I never said I was perfect.
So you leveraged credit. GOOD debt. And you think that was a mistake? Yes. It was foolish. I paid interest to a mortgage company I could have kept for myself. No you couldnt have kept it to yourself. If you hadnt had a mortgage you would have had to pay someone, somehow to have a roof over your head. Since the mortgage was a mistake, renting would have been perfect in your mind, right?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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So you mean everyone was spending like a drunk college kid with Dad's credit card before Dave Ramsey came along??
He should have a Nobel Prize. I think you got that backwards. Dave came along because everyone was spending like drunk college kids with their own credit cards......
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Did he come out of a phone booth?
Would you describe him as mild mannered?
I am MAGA.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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No. I did have a mortgage for a short while. I never said I was perfect.
So you leveraged credit. GOOD debt. And you think that was a mistake? Yes. It was foolish. I paid interest to a mortgage company I could have kept for myself. No you couldnt have kept it to yourself. If you hadnt had a mortgage you would have had to pay someone, somehow to have a roof over your head. Since the mortgage was a mistake, renting would have been perfect in your mind, right? This is especially true in a rising real estate market.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No. I did have a mortgage for a short while. I never said I was perfect.
So you leveraged credit. GOOD debt. And you think that was a mistake? Yes. It was foolish. I paid interest to a mortgage company I could have kept for myself. No you couldnt have kept it to yourself. If you hadnt had a mortgage you would have had to pay someone, somehow to have a roof over your head. Since the mortgage was a mistake, renting would have been perfect in your mind, right? Nope. I did farm labor in lieu of paying rent, and could still be living there under the same arrangement if I wanted. I thought I told you I've never rented a house.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Probably right though.
I bet less than half of people who have credit cards should have them.
I am MAGA.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No. I did have a mortgage for a short while. I never said I was perfect.
So you leveraged credit. GOOD debt. And you think that was a mistake? Yes. It was foolish. I paid interest to a mortgage company I could have kept for myself. No you couldnt have kept it to yourself. If you hadnt had a mortgage you would have had to pay someone, somehow to have a roof over your head. Since the mortgage was a mistake, renting would have been perfect in your mind, right? This is especially true in a rising real estate market. How great is it in a bursting real estate bubble?
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Some gray areas when it comes to estate planning and life insurance. He talks about whole life being a ripoff. It's not but it's not a tool you use for every situation. So to be brief he says don't buy it. What he describes is a bad plan from the 60s not what's out there now. Also, he talks as if his plan will 100 percent of the time work. Well...yeah. if nothing bad happens. For instance, he has you do things based on kids being gone and being able to retire and making x amount in the market. Well...if grandma gets sick and moves in or kids come back home or you get divorced, etc. It would be a bad idea to stop having life insurance and paying off the house at 4 percent interest might make less sense than doing something else with the money. Or your health insurance goes up 30 percent and changes the whole thing etc.
He is talking to people who need to fix a serious debt problem and nothing he says will hurt them a bit. Just that when I see a client it's not a one size fits all, that's all. I am a fan and I really like Dave regardless of my tiny little difference of opinion If you are debt free, and those bad things happen, isn't it better than being in debt? I am willing to take on short term debt with interest rates low for a vehicle. Which he is againt. But as said rates low, short term, and nothing to big. The reason it doesn;t work, is it is hard to give up spending. You build up cash, and not much bothers yous. I am not 100% on board. But what I figured out years ago, was if you have no credit card debt, all the money you send them every month you can spend. I take some risk, but not as much as some. Getting my mortgage paid off has been a goal. Ya sometimes think about bigger house, but being in debt my whole life sounds worse. Mostly I listen to just hear how [bleep] up most people are. Make me seem ok.
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"good growth stock mutual fund" ummm where. I asked my accountant and even put a post on this forum no one could tell me how they got wealthy or knew anyone that ever has from investing in mutual funds. I listen to dave ramsey and he has some good things to say but his advice is for the masses. . . . I agree his investing advice is for the masses, who are in debt up to their eyebrows, and have no retirement investing plan, but many do have a 401K, which is a tool to help them achieve wealth. Dave divides his mutual fund investments equally between each of these four types of funds: Growth - FOCKX (+24.48% 1 year Large Cap) Growth and Income - VDIGX (13.71% Q 1.90% 30-day yield) Aggressive Growth - PRNHX (27.71% 1 year Small Cap) International - FWWFX (17.34% International)
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Nope. I did farm labor in lieu of paying rent, and could still be living there under the same arrangement if I wanted. I thought I told you I've never rented a house.
You did tell me you didnt rent a home. You said you paid mortgage, and paying that mortgage was a mistake. So in your mind if the mortgage was a mistake, renting must be good, correct? But now, you not only told me renting must be good, you told me you worked for nothing also. WHO in their right mind would work for nothing?!?! Even if it meant living rent free. How stupid. SO, tell us all how much you made/hr doing farm labor....how much your rent would have been if you just paid under that living arrangement instead. Dumbest schit I ever heard of. Geez!
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Campfire Ranger
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Nope. I did farm labor in lieu of paying rent, and could still be living there under the same arrangement if I wanted. I thought I told you I've never rented a house.
You did tell me you didnt rent a home. You said you paid mortgage, and paying that mortgage was a mistake. So in your mind if the mortgage was a mistake, renting must be good, correct? But now, you not only told me renting must be good, you told me you worked for nothing also. WHO in their right mind would work for nothing?!?! Even if it meant living rent free. How stupid. SO, tell us all how much you made/hr doing farm labor....how much your rent would have been if you just paid under that living arrangement instead. Dumbest schit I ever heard of. Geez! Yep. You're the genius.
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How great is it in a bursting real estate bubble?
That bubble made a schit ton of money for a lot of people I know. You dont win them all, but if you cant make money in a down market youre not as smart as you think you are. And exactly why youre a Ramsey ball licker.
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319 |
Some gray areas when it comes to estate planning and life insurance. He talks about whole life being a ripoff. It's not but it's not a tool you use for every situation. So to be brief he says don't buy it. What he describes is a bad plan from the 60s not what's out there now. Also, he talks as if his plan will 100 percent of the time work. Well...yeah. if nothing bad happens. For instance, he has you do things based on kids being gone and being able to retire and making x amount in the market. Well...if grandma gets sick and moves in or kids come back home or you get divorced, etc. It would be a bad idea to stop having life insurance and paying off the house at 4 percent interest might make less sense than doing something else with the money. Or your health insurance goes up 30 percent and changes the whole thing etc.
He is talking to people who need to fix a serious debt problem and nothing he says will hurt them a bit. Just that when I see a client it's not a one size fits all, that's all. I am a fan and I really like Dave regardless of my tiny little difference of opinion I generally agree with this post. Life Insurance policies are much different than the ones on which Dave focuses. Problem is that life insurance agents have the same reputation as used car salesmen.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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PA. It's important to understand Dave's audience. For the average person who's gotten themselves into trouble with too much debt, Dave's advise if very good. However, there is no one-size-fits-all solution for all people, and those who understand the Time Value of Money, and the proper application of the current cheap rates and how to properly manage that as part of a long term plan, there can be some opportunity for optimization, but again, that's not the choir to whom he's preaching.
I understand Daves audience. And its hard to explain economics to people who are brainwashed. Daves pupils screw themselves left and right and dont even know it. They could have so much more in life, but the big bad devil debt scares the schit out of them. Shame. He is very risk adverse. Everything goes fine, ya can make money taking on debt But he is right, once you go without and save up pile of cash, and quit paying other people interest you can do alot too. Work comp in WI pays 60% of your income. Get in a car accident cause some kid hits you, no income. 100% of people that foreclosed on, had a mortgage.
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Show me one SELF MADE wealthy person that hasnt used leverage to get there. Hard work and ingenuity are just as important, but leveraging your assets is necessary unless you have a benefactor. Bragging about being debt free while living like a pauper is stupidity. Debt is a necessary evil. If you're not smart enough to manage that debt, or manage your personal finances, I sure wouldn't be broadcasting that.
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