Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots Help with Ruger #1 in 7x57 or 45-70

I really enjoy my #1 in 257 Roberts, and now I "need" a short #1 for a woods rifle(even if I will be hunting from a stand!) I really like the #1A, but would like it in stainless. I could wait for the Lipsey 6.5x55, or get a blue #1A in 7x57, or the stainless in 45-70. My questions to the #1 gurus in the world are:
1. Does the 7x57 come long-throated for the heavy bullets, and does this have any impact on accuracy with the shorter(140 gr) bullets? I will be handloading so I can seat the lighter bullets out as needed.I will be loading the lighter bullets almost exclusively, probably nothing over 150 gr.

2.How is the recoil with the 45-70? I am a wimp for recoil, finding the 30-06 my limit, and I prefer less. Since the gun will be used for game inside 125 yards, I don't need hyper-velocity(bet you never used that word to describe the 45-70!)

3. What can I expect to pay for the Lipsey 6.5x55? I realize that their prices are not final yet since they have not received the guns yet, but are they cheaper than the $1065 MSRP? My buddy owns the gun shop, so I can get a good deal, but only if he gets one for near "normal" price.

Sorry for all the questions on your personal opinions, but this may be my "retirement" gun, and I really don't want to make an error for lack of information. I want a gun that is easy to carry, fun to shoot, and reasonably accurate(defined as no more than 1-1/4" 3-shot groups at 100 yards). I would appreciate any input from those who have either the 7x57 or 45-70.

The questions you ask have a lot of mixed implications and fortunately there is no wrong answer. Any of the choices you have will work fine -- some will just be better than others.

The .45-70 is a real stopper for deer size and up game and fun to shoot with reasonable loads and a decent pad. It is very flexible in terms of loads/recoil so you can get what you'd like out of it from near 458 Mag to pure pussycat. It is not quite as 'handy' a gun in my book as an RSI mannlicher --- which would be my choice in 7x57 for your requirements.

The newer 7x57s by Ruger appear to be shorter throated than many of the older models because you do not need a 175 gr RN for most hunting here; the new, lighter, high quality, 140 gr bullets will do everything you want of them; and the numbers of new factory and custom quality steel guns in the caliber are outpacing the old Spanish Mausers etc that are of suspect strength.

The track rcord for recent special runs is that they intially sell high -- around $800 or more -- and eventually go for less but still a bit more than the standard Ruger issue. Until they disappear into gun safes that is, then expect another price spike. Also depends on how many are issued at any given time --- the .35 Whelens seems to have held their prices as they were issued in two small batches with a long break between.

The 6.5 Swede could be a sleeper in terms of suspressed demand. If I am right on this, they could sell fast with little or no drop-off -- or maybe a slight rise -- in price.

Then there is always a guy out there who just doesn't get it right -- like the one who sold me my 7mm-08 SSL B NIB for $250 under the going rate.

Good luck,
1B

USAFA71,

1-B has given some good advice. And I agree with most of what he said. The exception, is that I believe the #1-A to be about a pound lighter than an 1-RSI. I've long been an admirer of full length Mannlicher type stocks, However, the #1 just seems to front-heavy for my taste.

I have both the #1-A in 7x57 and the #1 in .45-70. My .45-70 is somewhat an anomoly as it has no sights. While the .45-70 can be a thumper, it is very managable with the lighter 300 gr. bullets at trapdoor Springfield velocities.

Personally, I intend to have a 6.5x55 as soon as they are available. (In spite of my dislike for sights and stainless steel) Of the three chamberings mentioned, it will have the least recoil. But in all honesty, I'd be hard pressed to distinguish the recoil difference bet it and the 7x57. But then, I'm not recoil sensitive.

If I were you, and I preferred blue/walnut, I go the 7x57 route. If you prefer ss, the 6.5x55. Neither is a bad choice.
Good luck!

Grasshopper

I've only owned my RSI in 7x57 for a relatively short time (since last August) and haven't had as much opportunity as I'll eventually have to "work up" reloads for it, but I'll give you my "results" along with my thoughts and feelings insofar as I have them at this point.

I love the "look" of the full Mannlicher stock on my little (total length = 36" with a 20" barrel) RSI. The rifle is trim and handy, but not exactly "light"... weighing in at exactly 8 pounds including a 4x-14x scope with parallax adjustment on the objective turret.

But that's relatively "light" compared to my Savage Model 99 in .300 Savage caliber at 9.5 lbs with scope & sling... or my pre-'64 Model 70 "Alaskan" in .338 Win. Mag. at 10.5 lbs with scope & sling.

And, frankly, a little weight isn't all that bad a thing when you consider that "weight" absorbs recoil. However, recoil isn't really an issue with the 7x57mm Mauser cartridge.

I bought my RSI from the original owner who indicated he purchased it in 1981 and claimed he put less than 1,000 rounds through the little rifle in over 25 years.

I have been reloading for over 45 years... and began to work up "accuracy loads" for my RSI last Autumn, but due to other circumstances, I only got out to my club's rifle range twice before the bad weather set in... and so I haven't completely developed "THE" most accurate load for sure as yet.

However, I did find out a few things about my RSI. First, it does seem to have a long "throat" since I am seating the 140 grain Sierra bullets out so far that only about 1 "caliber" (.284") of the bullet's base is held by the mouth/neck of the cartridge case... and the bullet is still about 40/1000ths of an inch off the lans and groves.

Second, my rifle seems to "like" H4350 rifle powder. Using a Sierra 140 grain ProHunter, flat-based bullet in front of various charges of H4350 sparked by standard Winchester large rifle primer in Remington cartridge cases, I found one "sweet spot" at 47.4 grains to 47.8 grains of powder (maximum load = 50.0 grains FOR MODERN FIREARMS ONLY-Chamber pressure = 50,000 CUP)

However, there were other charges of H4350 between 47.4 grains and 50.0 grains (including 50.0 grains) that also shot very small 3-shot groups measuring an inch or less with 2 of the 3 shots often going into less than .2 of an inch.

All groups were fired at 50 yards from a solid bench-rest using a rifle rest and sandbags for support so I could be sure to hold the scope's crosshairs EXACTLY on the center of the bullseye. The scope was set on 14x with the parallax adjusted out of the scope at 50 yards.

All groups were measured with my digital calipers measuring from the outside edge of the two bullet holes furthest apart, then subtracting the bullet diameter (.284) from the resulting measurement.

As an example, the 3-shot group using 50.0 grains of H4350 rifle powder had a 3-shot group measuring .407 inches with 2 shots going into only .203 inches. Both muzzle blast from the short 20-inch barrel and recoil were up sharply from other loads, but cartridge case examination did not indicate excessively high pressure.

Estimated muzzle velocity was about 2750 fps based on a "known" chronographed muzzle velocity which averaged 2706 fps using the same components and 49.4 grains of H4350.

The single best group (size-wise) was achieved using 47.6 grsins of H4350 with the same components as above. The 3-shot group, fired on 9/21/06 measured just .270 inches with 2 shots going into just .176 inches. This group made a tight, inter-locking "3-leaf clover" looking group with a muzzle velocity averaging 2578 fps.

Other group's performance included:

47.0 grains = 3 shots into .564" with 2 shots into .109".

47.2 grains = 3 shots into .649" with 2 shots into .178".

47.4 grains = 3 shots into .522" with 2 shots into .071".

47.6 grains = 3 shots into .540" with 2 shots into .181" (this group was fired on 10/25/06).

47.8 grains = 3 shots into .880" with 2 shots into .052".

48.4 grains = 3 shots into .323" with 2 shots into .111" at 2641 fps.

49.0 grains = 3 shots into .372" with 2 shots into .101" at 2683 fps.

49.6 grains = 3 shots into .716" with 2 shots into .217".

50.0 grains = 3 shots into .407" with 2 shots into .203" (as given previously)

Naturally, you can't expect to achieve the same muzzle velocity with a 20" barrel that you can achieve with a 24-inch tube. However, for deer and even elk, a good 140 grain bullet at 2700+ fps is more than "enough bullet" to do the job if the bullet is placed accurately in the animal's "kill zone".

Throughout all the loads EXCEPT for the 50.0 grain load (maximum load for MODERN RIFLES ONLY), recoil and muzzle blast were mild. Cases showed little or no "stretch" and all cases came out of the rifle easily.

Later this year, I plan to work up loads using Winchester 760 powder along with 5 different primers and 4 different bullets in the 140 grain to 145 grain weight range. I also plan to do more testing using H4350 as well as IMR4320 and possible Hodgdon's Varget.

Before I began working up loads, I checked out all the posts I could find (using the Campfire's "FIND" system) on the 7x57... and there seemed to be a general agreement that the RSI rifles were difficult to be made to shoot accurately. Some owners went to great lengths to get their RSI's to shoot and then, only got "questionable" results.

While this is possible, I am beginning to form the opinion that the shooters may NOT have allowed the barrel of their RSI's to cool off properly before firing the next shot.

With all the wood surrounding the FULL LENGTH OF THE BARREL, it took my RSI at least 5 minutes sitting in the sun on an 85� day to cool down enough to fire another shot with a "still-warm" (not "hot") barrel. This was during my September outting.

By October, the weather had cooled considerably and I could fire a shot every minute or so on the overcast day I took the RSI shooting.

As a result of my research which indicated RSIs in particular were inaccurate and the older RSIs were especially inaccurate, I didn't think my 1981 RSI would shoot well, but... obviously, that assumption was/is incorrect.

Again, the results I got with my older RSI cause me to wonder if the other owner/shooters allowed enough time between shots to give the mostly-covered barrel time to cool sufficiently to NOT be affected by swelling up and touching the wood surrounding the full-length of the barrel.

I hope this lengthy review has helped you to form an opinion and possibly make a decison as to which #1 you wish to purchase.

Personally, I'm very happy with my little ol' RSI... it shoot well and I've only BEGUN to "work up" loads with various components.

And something that should be of interest to you is the mild recoil of the 7x57 cartridge. You can shoot it all day off the bench-rest, even with fairly "warm" loads... and go home with a pain-free shoulder.

In addition to all of the above, my RSI with it's nicely figured #1 grade American burled walnut stock is just plain BEAUTIFUL, but then, I might be just a tad bit "prejudice".


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Current 45-70 #1s have a short throat. The 7mm Mauser has "general purpose" written all over it IMO and will be my next #1 most likely. I hope the #1A will be as good a shooter as my 45 #1S and 218 #1B are. I also hope it handles as well as the 45-70.

I have enjoyed the heck out of the 45-70 as a hunting cartridge. For someone recoil sensitive though, I would worry that it might become a bargain for someone else or, worse, a safe queen.

I would go for the 7x57 just for its versatility. I do own a Marlin 45/70 Cowboy that I love to shoot, but its just not as flexible a round as the 7 Mauser. You should be able to load it for long range antelope (even with a short barrel) or a heavier bullet capable of taking Moose or Elk. The 45/70 is a great cartridge and I like mine, but I'd still go for the 7x57.

My 7X57 RSI had a very long throat but it was one of the early production models. I have #1 45-70 that we load trap door springfield level loads in for kids to shoot on the young sportsman hunts. They love shooting it and it regularly shoots less than an inch with the light loads. recoil is about like a .410 shotgun. I also load it it all the way to max with several bullets and it still drives tacks. One of my favorites. reflex264

Reflex264,

You sure have a "feddish" for level guns including drop levers. Nice wood on your Ruger #1 in 45-70.

Is a "feddish" like a fetish only on the highest level of government?

Ron T,

The throat you describe in your 7x57 RS1 is by no means long. It actually sounds just about the perfect minimum for the 7x57.

The older 7x57 No. 1 had throats so long that even the longest 140's, seated out to where they were hanging on by their toenails, had to shout to have the rifling hear them.

JB

The 45-70 recoils with a pretty good jolt. For the hunting you are describing, the 7x57 sounds ideal, even with factory loads. The only philosophy I disagree with is shooting lightweight bullets in the 7x57. I much prefer a good 160 or 175 grainer.
_

Thanks for all the replies. I think I will try for the 6.5x55, just because I like the caliber. If that doesn't work, then the 7x57 would be next, and would compliment my 7-08 Tikka. I don't forsee anything in my future hunting that can't be handled by either of these calibers quite nicely, without all the recoil and turmoil of larger calibers. If the game is too large to hunt with either of these calibers, then it looks like another rifle is the answer! That is my story and I am sticking to it!

Ahhhhhhhhh... THANK YOU, John (aka "Muledeer")....

That's one less "concern"...


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.