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Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by WAM
Folks who use marginal cartridges for elk


You really believe the 6.5 CM is “marginal” for elk?

Please explain why, and your experience with 6.5’s that has led you to this belief...


14 hours ago I posted that I have no personal experience with the Creedmoor. See above.

It is my opinion that none of the Creedmoors shoot heavy enough bullets at an adequate velocity providing enough penetration and exits to reliably put down elk in every situation. My belief is founded in seeing failures with similar cartridges and flat out believing the 6mm and 6.5 CM are really not adequate for elk. Again, just my opinion and I certainly respect yours.


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Originally Posted by horse1
Originally Posted by keith
Some broke dicks could not even pack out the meat you will bone of a bull's neck, must less both of the back straps. The same broke dicks will probably bring a leatherman on their belt to help butcher what they shoot! Hind quarters are 200 lbs plus.


Where did you read that rear quarters are 200# each?


From his vast "experiences"....


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JGRaider, my rifles shoot 1/2-1 MOA at 600. I helped others since I had good mules.

Horse1, a big Bull's hind quarter is so heavy and awkward that one man can hardly lift it.

Trying to balance it going up hill in loose ground is another issue.

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Originally Posted by shrapnel
Originally Posted by prm
“This is one more reason...”. What reason?

I can see many reasons to have one and use it for elk.


It does something really well as it was designed. Shooting elk is another thing. The fascination with the 6.5 has been overblown and although it can kill elk, there are better choices. It still divides people in it’s value as a big game cartridge, and if you disagree you are some kind of crackpot. I continue to shoot elk and will kill plenty with a cartridge better suited for that purpose...

Face it.
You are a cranky old man stuck in the 1800’s


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Originally Posted by keith
Horse1, a big Bull's hind quarter is so heavy and awkward that one man can hardly lift it.

Trying to balance it going up hill in loose ground is another issue.


Where did you read that?


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Originally Posted by WAM

14 hours ago I posted that I have no personal experience with the Creedmoor. See above.

It is my opinion that none of the Creedmoors shoot heavy enough bullets at an adequate velocity providing enough penetration and exits to reliably put down elk in every situation. My belief is founded in seeing failures with similar cartridges and flat out believing the 6mm and 6.5 CM are really not adequate for elk. Again, just my opinion and I certainly respect yours.


Opinion, based in belief, founded on guesses... I find it difficult to respect an opinion based on nothing but preconceived ideas coupled with no experience.

There are plenty of people here on 24 hr, as well as local friends, that have taken elk with the small 6.5's. For now I'll stick with their opinion until I form my own based on actual experience. When I post on these threads I try to speak only from personal experience.

And BTW, this thread is about the 6.5 Creedmoor... not the 6mm version.




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The 6.5X55 and 7X57 have been taking elk, bear and moose since the 1890's. They traveled the globe and have taken every animal in Africa including elephant for almost 130 years. At some point hunters fell for the advertising hype and bought into the notion that they needed bigger, more powerful cartridges to take game larger than whitetails. The way I see it the rise in popularity of rounds like the 6.5 CM, 260, and 7-08 is hunters coming back to their senses.

Quote
It is my opinion that none of the Creedmoors shoot heavy enough bullets at an adequate velocity providing enough penetration and exits to reliably put down elk in every situation.


The 140 gr 6.5 bullets will match a 180gr 30 caliber bullet in penetration if using bullets of the same construction. That isn't just theory, it's been proven. If a 180 gr 30-06 doesn't give enough penetration what does.


Most people don't really want the truth.

They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Basing decisions by using the SWAG theory.......the 24 HCF never disappoints.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Here's what Finn Aagaard had to say about the penetration of the 6.5x55 vs the 30-06 in his excellent Hunting Rifles & Cartridges.

In the test, the 140's from the 6.5x55 were loaded at 2,700 fps. Right where the 6.5 Creedmoor lives.

Finn doesn't list the 30-06/180 speed, but based on his extensive writing about that round, I think it's safe to assume 2,750 fps +/-

[Linked Image]



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I guess it is just dumb luck having taken all the elk I have over the years with a 6.5x55, 6.5x308, 260 Rem, 6.5-06. All taken with the Barnes original 120gr X & now the TSX. Have yet to have recovered a bullet.A deep penetrating properly placed bullet works out of a 338 mag or a 6.5 Rem, etc.

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Great information Brad... I'm glad you posted that...thanks. Dan


Last edited by DanBrothers; 12/26/18.

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Just bring a back up rifle in case the bullets bounce off the hide!


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I have taken 5 deer with my .260, 4 Mulies and one whitetail. All were with 130ABLR Based on the terminal damage to the deer I would choose a stronger or tougher bullet for my .260 on elk.

Have a lot of 130 bullets and too lazy to do some load development with a new bullet. Just easier to grab my 7Mag. Which I am very familiar and comfortable with.

Maybe more about the rifle than the cartridge it is chambered for. Have killed elk with the 7 with Sierra 175, Noslers, and good grief core lockded. All killed elk pretty quick.



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As long as you don't plan on shooting less than a 1000 yds!


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Originally Posted by GregW
Originally Posted by horse1
Originally Posted by keith
Some broke dicks could not even pack out the meat you will bone of a bull's neck, must less both of the back straps. The same broke dicks will probably bring a leatherman on their belt to help butcher what they shoot! Hind quarters are 200 lbs plus.


Where did you read that rear quarters are 200# each?


From his vast "experiences"....



In Az, Bulls out of Units 2A & B, Cows from Show Low

Helped others all over the state...friends and family when I did not get drawn

Mule Deer out of Blue River area, Az side, Bagdad, South Rim of Grand canyon.

Hauled mules to NM, went to Colorado bought mules and Missouri for Fox trotters & and mules, hauled them back to Az.

Last edited by keith; 12/26/18.
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Originally Posted by Brad
Here's what Finn Aagaard had to say about the penetration of the 6.5x55 vs the 30-06 in his excellent Hunting Rifles & Cartridges.

In the test, the 140's from the 6.5x55 were loaded at 2,700 fps. Right where the 6.5 Creedmoor lives.

Finn doesn't list the 30-06/180 speed, but based on his extensive writing about that round, I think it's safe to assume 2,750 fps +/-

[Linked Image]



Thanks for sharing. That does not surprise me. Only critter I shot was a Muley and the 139 Scenar went in one side and out the other doing significant damage to the offside lung. For reference, my 139-143 weight bullets all run 2750-2790. Nothing in my limited experience gives me reason to pause about using it on an elk.

I've shot quite a few bullets from 308s, 338-06, 338 Fed and 6.5 Creedmoor into damp media and the well built 6.5s do quite well. I include about 2" of particle board at the front to test the bullets a bit more. Finn was right, dry paper is really hard on bullets. Too hard for most cup and core bullets. For reference, the 139 Scenar did not open on the particle board and only once it was a couple inches into the damp media, then it out penetrated every 6.5 bullet I tried. On the mule deer, it made a small hole the first few inches then created a very nice wound channel and blew a nice sized hole out the off side. There is something different in the 139s construction from other C&C bullets.

Last edited by prm; 12/26/18.
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Bell, Selous, Smuts, and Charles Sheldon used various 6.5's of lesser velocity and bullet quality than what is available with today's 6.5 Creedmoor. Sheldon took over 500 head of NA game with the .256 Mannlicher, including 70-80 Grizzly and Brown Bears.

And yet somehow through conjecture, group-think, and pure guessing the reigning opinion is the 6.5 Creedmoor is not up to elk.

I've shot enough large bull elk to stick my neck out and say it should work, and work well... I plan on wringing it out in the future.


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I watched my son flatten a big old cow at a shade over 500 yards with a 127LRX outta the .260 the other day.... it went through about 36” of elk before it exited. I’d have no problem running a 6.5 Creed on an elk hunt... provided we’re talking sound projectiles.


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Quote
Sheldon took over 500 head of NA game with the .256 Mannlicher, including 70-80 Grizzly and Brown Bears.


This just about squashes out any desire to own a 30 cal magnum.

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Originally Posted by OutdoorAg
Quote
Sheldon took over 500 head of NA game with the .256 Mannlicher, including 70-80 Grizzly and Brown Bears.


This just about squashes out any desire to own a 30 cal magnum.


Yes it does. The Sheldon book is an eye-opener of adventure of a bygone era.


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