Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Cartridge for Alaska Moose Hunt

Why is your experience so different from everyone else? I never made arguments to authority based on post count and never would. I would question a lot of what you have posted both here and elsewhere. You have said more than a little in the realm of the ridiculous.

Comparing the results from a light-for-caliber mono to an ordinary cup and core there is no comparison in the bloodshot meat category. It is possible your big, slow bullets could compete against ordinary cup and cores (or bonded) but beyond that you are going where few others go.

Good mornin everyone,

I'm currently remote, and not near any pictures, but I did post three reviews of the woodlieigh .358" 275 grain and the 9.3 mm 300 grain swift A-frame on mid way USA. Pictures of three bulls, and one recovered bullet. Figured since I bought them from midway, I'd give some good reviews.

I see 5 to 7 big bulls killed every year. To date the fastest kill was with a 7mm08. Shot placement as always means more than caliber. Moose are not a tough animal to begin with. Big slow bullets like the hardcasts I use in my 444 do far less meat damage on average than higher velocity rounds. Of course shot placement plays a role in that too. Had a guy shoot a big bull this year right behind the shoulder with a 340 Weatherby loaded with a Barnes TSX bullet at 30 yards. Ruined one entire side of ribs.

Mainer I worked up some loads for my 358 based on your posts over on the Alaska Outdoor Forums and they are thumpers! Took a big bison with them a few years back and couldnt ask for better bullet performance.

Geeze I bet Yukon, if I had that much powder capacity, i'd try to slow that bugger down, with a heavier bullet.

Can you elaborate on that 358 load and where you shot the Bison? In the little 358, the 200 grain Acubond and the 200 grain ttsx, are longer than a 250 grain flat base bullet. At the power level and range of the little 358, I never could figure out what the boat tail, or the ballistic tip actually accomplishes? Better to just go flat base spitzer in my opinion, instead of limiting an already limited powder column.

The reason why I switched from the woodlieghs to the A-frames: The woodleigh PP has very little lead exposed at the tip. In one instance, I had a failure to expand on a large bull moose. It still worked, but it really should have expanded. The tip of a woodleigh is darn close to being an FMJ. The nosler partitions and the swifts have more exposed lead at the tip, and expansion has always been super reliable. Then.........after a 500 yd shot with a 300 grain swift a-frame, I was honestly shocked that it expanded so perfectly. That pure copper jacket and all the lead exposed at the tip.......smart.

I've found pure copper jackets to be less brittle than copper/zinc mixed jackets. Less mushroom shears off. They seem to reliably expand on moose down to 1500 fps!

negatives: If you have factory rifling, or rebores, all the little tooling marks foul with copper. The fouling can get so severe, I've resorted to a mild abrasive: KG bore polish.

Mainer, I was following your posts on the 358 right from the beginning over on the AOF. Early on a lot of guys were of the opinion that the 225 grain bullets were about as heavy as the little 358 could push reliably. You were going heavy for caliber, and if my memory is correct worked your way up to 300 grain bullets. I stopped at 250 grain NP. I would have gone heavier but the 250 NP was almost flawless on large game. The bison here are pretty spooky and quite tough to hunt. Our season runs in the winter months so a guy can do a lot of snowshoeing. Anyway I got up on a small herd that were feeding in a big slough, but they got my wind before I was where I wanted to be and busted out for the hills. Luckily I found an opening an shot a big bull that was bringing up the rear. I wanted to anchor him so held right in the middle of his shoulder. The bullet broke both shoulders and I found it perfectly mushroomed under the hide on the off side. The distance was about 90 meters and that bullet lifted that bull right off his feet. Anyone who has ever butchered a big bull bison will know that they are the biggest heaviest boned animals in NA.

On another note I also read your posts over there where you were talking about the (then new) Ruger Compact Magnum in 338 RCM. At that point I had never heard of the round before but did some digging. I liked your idea of a short light handy rifle, with good open sights that a guy could take sheep hunting, then pull the scope off and have a good bear defence gun. Took me awhile to find one here in Canada but I did find a left hand model. Im not sure if you ever got one or not, but I can say that your assessment of that rifle was spot on! I've had it for about a year now and it has quickly become my all time favourite rifle. So far its taken a huge bull bison, a caribou, and a wolf. Im shooting 225 grain core locks at about 2700 FPS and performance is outstanding. In reality the only thing it offers over the 358 is a bit flatter trajectory but for the north country I cant imagine a more suitable rifle. From what I understand Ruger dropped that rifle and for the life of me I dont understand why it wasn't more popular.

Wowsa, great story on the mighty little underdog: the 358 Winchester. I would have to say, that's the best story I've ever heard, involving the 358 Winchester. Yah, when heavy winter clothes are involved, or elevation, by gully is the little 358 handy, with plenty of range. After you broke out the shoulders and anchored North America's largest animal, did you scratch your head and wonder if the little 358 was magic or something?

Some time ago Yukon, I believe an article was written in a gun rag, full of that thar "theoretical thinking out loud". The author opined that he liked 225 grainers in the 358, because the larger caliber bullets take up too much powder capacity in the 358. Nothing could be further from the truth: All 250 grain flat base spritzers set right at the little shoulder when load to standard COAL.


Elmer Keith mentioned the little 358 Winchester in one of his last books: Hell, I was There. He claimed the little 358 with a 250 grainer was plenty sufficient on the largest of North American game. Not much has changed, aye? Everybody got ah pet cartridge, and I suppose over the years the 358 has accomplished some of my greatest memories on the rivers.

Yah that little 338 federal carbine, what ah handy canoe gun. I never did pick up one, but an old hunting pard has one as his sole hunting rifle. I watched him catch both a caribou and moose with it. Luckily, let me target practice with it too. What ah handy little gem, with no gunsmithing or modifications required. Those integral scope bases and fine open sights are darn smart. Was probably the best-buy hunting rifle/caliber I've seen for years.

You wrote... "Sorry, but bigger, slower bullets have shown far more bloodshot meat than any other combo..."

That is too broad of a statement and is not true. 200gr .323 Accubond at 2950fps mv from my Kimber 325 destroys much more meat on sheep and moose than a .452 355gr hardcast wfn at 1200fps mv from my SBH 45 Colt on deer and .512 455gr hardcast lfn at 1300fps mv from my 500 Linebaugh. Plenty have gone before us with big, slow heavy hunks of lead and "eat up to the hole" is a common phrase among handgun hunters.

You can argue against physics all you want but you won't win. Expanding bullets and velocity creates bloodshot. Not slow, heavy solids.

Using an Accubomb against the Monos as stated is not any way part of the argument. As I said, go with your fantasy...

Slow day at AOD.

Most likely...

But how could you tell?

Lucky guess?

Yes your HIGHness...

ah.... isn't that schweet....

Nope not comparing Accubonds to Monos. Just pointing out your flawed statement regarding heavy and slow and what I've seen first hand. But, obvioulsy you prefer mudslinging as opposed to admitting your statement is flawed. Carry on oh wise one...

accubomb? You must be thinking of the Long Range Accubonds. These AB's worked pretty good as they were designed to.

Probably.... I wouldn't know..

338-06/210 ttsx has so far done what I've wanted it to on moose. LOL. I was a bit impressed that it took on the front shoulder at the neck, spine, and offside blade but was stuck under the hide, I'd actually almost bet it would have made it out. As is its an awful pretty bullet at about 100% retention.

As to keeping em out of the water, like I say on deer, pigs etc... if you can't afford for them to move, the only option is enough umph to take out CNS at your choice of location. Beyond that its always going to be a crap shoot to me. Maybe a high percentage one at times, but crap shoot regardless.

I'll leave with this. One of the longer trails I"ve ever followed on a white tail deer, maybe a 100 pound dressed weight doe at that, was from her having a 50 bmg through her ribcage and both lungs.. VERY dead when we finally found her about 200 yards away, though the bullets path was easier to follow than her path....literally, in thick brush.

Heya Snyd, Iron Bender and Sitka Deer:

Not much work trying to find a decent conversation bout outdoorsy stuff on either forum I suppose. There's good ones and not so good ones. Not sure about exclusivity between the two, we still lotta the same folks. I'd have no problem hunting moose with a big flat nosed hard cast from one ah snyd's nice revolvers or that accubond wsm load, or one ah Sitka Deer's 338 mag x bullet loads.

True stories of moose growing up in Northern Maine:

When I was 15 yrs old, there were moose all around my home, and cross the road near a water hole. I used to practice my stalking skills on a big bull moose with a base ball. I'd stalk him when his head was under water eating aquatic vegetation. I'd pause when his head rose to breath and chew.

Finally, I'd get at the waters edge, and pulverize him right on the front quarter with the base ball. The 30" racked bull exploded out of that pond, almost trampled me as he ran outta there. Another time, I bought this outrageously stupid deer call that did doe or buck grunts from wallmart in Houlten Maine. Thought it was a sure ticket to call in a big white tail. I set hidden under a nice thick white spruce in a small field, and got to grunting in early November. Brush started thrashing, twigs started snapping, and I reached to ready my 30-30, ready to be the youngster who drug home a trophy whittail buck. Out of the brush popped a big bull moose with 40" antlers, ready to fight. I threw that stupid thing away.

Another time, I was crawlin around the yard on my hands and knees at night, catching night crawlers for fishing. I felt a strong breeze by my face and heard some galloping, something nicked my ear. I took the celophane off the flashlight, and shined it out front, I walked right under a cow moose, and she didn't trample me!

Aren’t you a mod there?

You speak of bullet comparisons in regard to meat damage and use two bullet types... neither one is in the same league with monos. Period.

We already have history and you proved to be an idiot then. Obviously, some things never change. Your exterior ballistics comprehension was virtually zero then. No sign of improvement.