Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Any research on the Sierra Game Changer?

Overall, data does support that WT deer hit with softer C&C bullets travel less distance than WT deer hit with harder, premium bullets. I can post the SC study (again) if desired.

CNS, high shoulder, DRT either way. Chest shooting WT's, I like softer bullets, have shot them with varying brands of both kinds. WT's I've chest shot with Scenars, VLD's, etc. have mostly been DRT. Not enough numbers to compare with the 400 WT's from the above mentioned study.

Now, 120 gr. TTSX or E-Tip at around 3,500 fps out of my 26 Nosler nails about everything, DRT, chest or bone, lots of tissue damage. Speed kills and enough speed messes up stuff. The 100 TTSX at 3,250 out of my 257R is a killer, but I've have them run a few yards.

So, as I've posted before, matching speed to the bullet design helps. If I'm shooting the Creed, Swede, 7-08, 308, etc. at around 2,800 or so, I like softer bullets, including NPT's. Even though the NPT is a "premium", it is sorta soft, at least up front and performs that way. Haven't tried the new SST's, old ones were disappointing. New NBT's are very good.

It will be interesting to see how the Gamechanger fits into the mix. I look forward to reading accounts. I have too many options to try right now to take on another. Will wait and see what you guys have to say.

DF

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So many arguments here are caused by the idea that everyone's experiences are the same.
We have people hunting deer spread over a 3000x3000 mile area. Deer that go from 100#(maybe) to 300#
Shot from the ground, up in a stand or only God knows how. (Even legally from a vehicle)
Over bait, or jump shot.
Those that shoot heads or spine can say a 223 is perfect.
I shoot ribs. When possible. Sometimes, it's the front half a moving, deer.
Cover can be heavy. It can be raining. I have avoided creating blood tracking situations,
therefore, I aint good at it.

I like quick kills, two holes if possible.
Not excessive meat loss.

The old 165gr BT in the 308 does it very well. (Going to be sad when I run out)
The 180 Pro-Hunter in the 30-06 does the same.
They rarely stop in a deer.

For me, a Barnes could not possibly do better.
Good, sure.
As good, maybe.

The laws of physics they are not, so I wonder what is the magic involved with a bullet causing less tissue damage and killing faster.

Blind faith bordering religious credence. That is.

I find it funny.

I thought this bullet issue had been decided years ago. I have done this before and will reference it again as I am not aware of any one having been in on making more gut piles and looking into bullet performance then this Aussie guy, Bob Penfield.

"n 1988 the Barnes all-copper bullets, named "X-Bullets", were offered to hunters.
Reports on them from the game fields soon came in. Experienced hunters like Ross
Seyfried, who used .30 caliber X-Bullets on feral donkeys in Australia, were surprised at
their penetration and killing power. Perhaps the most impressive testimony came from
Australian professional hunter and game manager Bob Penfield (in an unsolicited letter to
Randy Brooks). Penfield mentioned a culling operation of several years duration that
involved 130,000 rounds fired at 40,000 feral donkeys, 10,000 wild horses and many
other animals. The cullers used a large number of rifles of all common calibers and
bullets. They reported that the Barnes X-Bullets were more effective than any of the
others, and that the slightly lighter bullets in a given caliber killed quicker than slightly
heavier ones-e.g., the 165-grain .30 caliber bullets versus the 180-grain ones, or the 210
or 225-grain ones in .338 size versus the 250-grain ones".

I would think a feral donkey is a bit heavier then a deer, but don't really know. Horses can be heavier then elk and moose and water buffalo are big. Any way, the reports for Barnes X bullets were good when it cam to making gut piles and I quit using Partitions in the late 80's and started shooting Barnes X bullets and have tried most of the X varieties, except the MRX. I recently picked up a 6.5 Creed for the grandkids to use and bought some 127 grain Vortex ammo for it, as caribou, moose and bear are on the menu.

If I lived in the "lower 48" I would probably use some thing besides the TTSX bullets I now use in my 30-06 and .338.

Thanks for that report.

I'd also think donkeys and horses are tougher than WT deer. The added penetration probably comes in pretty handy.

DF

oh boy, you did it now....

Well, I guess I could see that on a larger critter with a denser carcass where penetration was critical

The data I mentioned earlier was specific for Southern WT deer.

DF

Methinks this thread should be renamed...

Tag.................for next time I draw a donkey tag.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...performance-on-deer-results#Post13179254

Not research but my recent experience.

Thanks for posting that.

Looks like picture perfect, textbook performance.

DF

I shot some of the 90 grainers out to 700 today. The wind was pretty rough... but I was able to shoot enough dope that I’m pretty confident with them well past my antelope shooting range.

I settled on 42.5 grains of IMR 4350 at 2.80” for 3150 FPS out of the .243 RAR-P’s 22” (1-9”) barrel. The listed .490 BC seems to be holding-up. I’ll be looking for an antelope buck to shoot with one on Thursday and Friday.

1Akshooter,

Ross and I discussed the original X-Bullets at length, including the results on Australian feral donkeys. Two things might be pertinent here: Ross mostly shot for shoulder-bone, often on quartering-to shots, which is where they really impressed him.

The early X's also tended to shed their petals, so did more internal damage. I know this from a conversation with Randy Brooks on a mule deer hunt in, as I recall, 2003. He thought that was a good attribute, since it didn't affect their deep penetration, but he thought it did help them kill quicker. But so many customers saw petal loss as negative, apparently because it involved less-than-100% weight retention, that like any good business person he decided to please his customers, so modified X-Bullets until they usually retained their petals.

Personally, in shooting various X-Bullets into big game, from the originals to the TTSX's, and seeing other people kill animals with 'em, I've also never been able to see any difference in whether bullets that retained their petals killed better or penetrated deeper than bullets that didn't. This may be due to recovered X's often being shot through bone, which does tend to break petals off--and also reduces the frontal area, which enhances penetration.

From what I understand, some more recent X's are again designed to not retain the petals, a by-product of being designed to open up at longer ranges.

Here is a preliminary reply to the initial question, the penetration ability of the new Sierra Gamechanger. This evening I shot four different .308 165 grain bullets and one 130 grain bullet into 18" of soaked and densely-packed newsprint.

The Sierra Game Changer, 165 grains, .308 as stated, over 44.0 grains of AA4064, penetrated 15 1/2" and retained 136.5 grains. Nice mushroom recovered.

A 130-grain TTSX, 46.5 grains of IMR 4895, penetrated 16 1/2" and retained all of its weight.

A 165-grain Federal Bonded Trophy Tip, 44.0 of 4064, penetrated 17 1/2" and retained 156.0 grains.

The 165 grain Accubond and the 165 grain TTSX, both over 44.0 AA4064, passed through the 18" of newsprint and a folded saddle blanket and were not recovered. I had another 7" of soaked newsprint but I could not fit it into the fork of the tree I was using so I had to settle for the 18 inches.

All shots were from 100 yards.

Excellent report. Thanks.

Haha ol uncle Johnny!!! I just spit Copenhagen out my nose!!! 🤣🤣

These guys rate them.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu12mCih346/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvbHMioB9KJ/

So WTH would you use one when the Accubond and 168 TTSX shows better results?

Interested to know why you consider a bullet that passes right through a better result.

Personally, I like a deer bullet to expand most of if not all of it's energy in the animal and not on the hillside or tree behind it. I've shot a lot of deer, mostly red deer which are larger than a whitetail and like bullets that expand fairly rapidly but mostly stay together. A friend I hunt with is coming up to his 900th deer and won't use a bonded bullet as he's had some serious failures. I like some of the AB line though such as the 125gr in .308 for lighter deer such as sika which are similar in size to your whitetail. They mushroom well and are mostly recovered on shoulder shots.

+3