Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Who builds the Super Sniper?

I tend to agree JG, however so long as there are guys out there with more money than brains, the "Big Three" will chug right along.

A few comments:
-The world of completely vertically integrated companies making sporting optics no longer exists. Very few do it and they are very expensive. Even Zeiss does not make every piece of every scope they make. They do everything on the high end scopes, but for the Conquests, for example, the glass is outsourced to another european company in order to keep the price reasonable.

-In the modern business world, no company is guaranteed to be here ten years from now, much less thirty years from now. Worrying about that is pointless. The fact that particular company has been around for a long time, does not mean that it will still be here. I used to work in telecom world. Care to look up what happened to some of the giants there Nortel, Lucent, etc?

-As I said above, if a company does not want to disclose where exactly they manufacture their products, I think it is common courtesy on my part to honor their wishes. I am sorry it makes people all poochy-faced, but I put a lot of stock into a simple notion that you should treat people the same way you want them to treat you. A little common courtesy goes a long way.

-Lastly, if you are trying to decide whether to buy a product manufactured by a particular company, look at how the product performs. Try to find out if the company is well run. Beyond those two things, there is little you can do.

ILya

Why would it be pointless if a company is here in 10 years or not if that company is offering a lifetime warramnty?? Please explain that.

I apologize if I have offended anyone here. That was not my intent. My intent was to have a discussion. I just have an opposing point of view.

I think it is very relative for a company that offers a lifetime warranty if such said company has been around for 30 years. And I definitely want to make sure they are going to be around to honor that warranty in 30 years?? So how could not being around in 10 years be irrelevant??

I mostly buy high end optics. By that I mean glass with a minimal cost of $700 or $800. So I darn sure want them to be around for many many years to come.

And sorry to say the trade name companies have a poor track record for longevity. So paying $700 for a Vortex PST would be a big mistake as I see it.

Buying one of the cheaper SS scopes might not be a bad idea. But I have little faith in that warranty being worth anything in 15 or 20 years. Just an opinion. Tom.

Thanks guys!


I learned more than I had hoped to. I am sure Shane puts higher demands upon his optics than I ever will. If the product performs satisfactorily for him and the other folks who chimed in above, I am willing to bet the $250 it will do what I want.

My most commonly used rifles are presently equipped with a 6-18 Bushnell Trophy, a 4-12 Trophy, a 4-12 Burris FF, and an old Weaver 2.5-7 X 32. They all do the job, once they are zeroed. But they are all prone to a common problem. They need three to five shots before they settle in after a reticule adjustment.

It is tough to play with range and turrets that way. I am glad the SS can be counted on to work in that manner and still stay within my budget.

Thanks especially to Ilya for your thoughtful and informative discussion.

Tom, that's where you and I are different on warranties.

I don't own any 30yr old optics and in all honesty, I probably never will. Optics quality is improving all the time and if I had reason to get a company to honour a warranty on the 30yr old scope, I would still have at the end of the process, a 30yr old scope.

That holds no interest for me at all.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned whether a company will be around long term to honor a warranty. The point is, you won't nor can't ever know for certain any company will be in business tomorrow, even those who have been in business for a long time.

Again, your Vortex example doesn't fit your template, as they've been in business for 25 years already. Ever heard of Eagle Optics? Same company owns that brand name as Vortex. Their future in the optics business is every bit as secure as Leupold, maybe more so.

Also, with all due respect, you have a major misconception of the realities of modern manufacturing. If we strictly adhere to your definition, almost all optics companies would be categorized as "trade name companies," because there are no manufacturers in existence who make all components of all of their products entirely in-house anymore.

Question for you... which optics companies do you think make all of their own products, and what is your definition of "make?"

Rifle Dude those are all good points you make. There are very few companies that do that. Most of my optics are Zeiss, Swarovski, and Leupold. And for the most part they make or manufacture most of their product. Probably not all, but most. And those three have been around for 30 years+. And I do have some of their optics that are that old. And they still function well.

As far as Vortex is concerned. No, I am not real familiar with Eagle Optics. Are they still in business?? What type of warranties did they have??

Again I am in no way trying to attack the quality of SS or Vortex. And I have heard great things about both. It has just been my experience with trade name companies in the sporting goods industry that trade names change hands fairly frequently.

I worked for the parent company of Charles Daly for a good many years. And I also sold several other trade name products that my company owned. and I have witnessed trade names like Charles Daly, Bersa, TimberKing, CatchMaster, Tasco, Simmons, Bushnell, and many other companies over the years go in and out of business. And be bought and sold to different entities. And about every time they were transferred the waranties were not transferred. A big one would be RedField. The RedField name has been owned by several companies over the past 30 years. Now Leupold owns the name. They will probably sell it in 5 or 10 years. And I doubt if the new company will honor the warranty that Leupold is now putting on the scope. I might be wrong about that, but I don't think so. Tom.

As a matter of fact, Leupold is just a machine shop. They machine their tubes and most mechanical parts. They don't make springs, fasteners, o-rings, etc. and they outsource their lenses from Asia. Zeiss is a huge company, and they outsource quite a bit of their products. They outsource the glass in their Conquest series, for example. Some of their optics are made entirely in Japan. Swaro doesn't make their own glass; they get it from at least 2 different suppliers.

Yes, Eagle Optics is still in business. They are both a major optics retailer as well as having their own house brand by the same name. Eagle mainly caters to the birdwatching community. I don't know what the warranty is on the EO branded optics, but the Vortex brand includes much more high-end, upscale optics than Eagle and Vortex products have an unconditional lifetime warranty.

As an answer to the OP: Just might be Light Optics.

same questions can be asked: who makes XXX riflescopes. replacing XXX with Vortex, Bushnell, Simmons. To me, it really doesn't matter.

The point that Ted and ILya are trying to make is that if someone supplied the OEM name it is inconsequential. When dealing with companies like Light Optical Works, Asia Optical LLC or Kenko they are capable of producing average, good and excellent optical products. What's more important, IMO is the company that sticks their name on the product and how they service it after the sale.

The SS is a good enough scope to reveal all the other flaws found in one's gear and shooting ability.

Good kit for the money spent.

+1

I dont care who makes it. I think my SS 3-9 is one heck of a deal, FFP with a mill reticle and matching adjustments for $600 puts it in its own class. I will not be shy about saying you will need to spend twice the money to get a compable scope with regard to features, glass quality and excellent tracking.

How's the eye relief? The spec is pretty short on that model.

I dont know what the specs are but I can tell you on a medium weight .308 and a Tikka T3 .270 eye relief has not been an issue at all. I actually use it quite a bit on 3x and 9x and have not had to make any conscious changes in head position regardless of magnification.

It's spec'd at only 77mm at 9x, just a hair over 3", and that's a bit close for my taste.

I'm interested to find out if it really is that short.

Mathman what is the proper method of checking it? Do I simply turn it up to 9x and then measure from the lense to my pupil when I have full clarity? Sorry if that sounds to simple but I have seen how anal some are about discussing technical specs on optics.

What was that song, Diggin' up Bones? I couldn't resist a blast from the past uncovered during a lengthy online search.

Remember the part about not shooting the messenger, ok?