Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Montana shoulder season ,poorly run

Ouch!

If you want to see selective good ol boy " gifting" of big game to special interests.

Check out Idaho!

P.S. get u a 4 wheeler or a side by side. The only way to go on closed national forest roads!

Went back and read the OP's posts. Mostly a bunch of whining. My original response related only to the "Shoulder Season" aspect in the thread title, which I stand by. I've seen one of my favorite units losing elk dramatically - no one is quite sure exactly why - but which simultaneously had a shoulder season implemented in it. If that's not catering to landowners without adequate data (the science part), I don't know what is. Makes no sense.

I also think elk need a break. For god's sake, they get pounded all fall, deal with predators year round, then get chased by Kuiu clad warriors doing the F150 sneak in December, January, and February, just the time when they'd like to be catching their breath and surviving winter.

I'm grateful for the large landowners in the state, and understand what they're up against. But sometimes the pendulum gets swung too far in their favor.

Crickets.

I've been friends with that FWP biologist for the past 40 or so years. He is definitely a science biologist and has probably forgot more about elk biology than most that post here will ever know.

He once explained to me how with proper timing, allowing a proper number of cattle to graze on the forest land in the Wall Cr Area actually benefited the grazing for the elk.

Saddlesore, I don't have a general complaint about NR hunters either, except for two things.

I don't want to hear their pissing and moaning, and I especially don't want to listen to any idiots who think NRs should get preferential treatment.

That, and CP&W issues too many tags, which is not the fault of NRs.

That's pretty common knowledge, and was once the role of bison. Most everything he's posted is elk 101... the point of the thread, at least from my perspective, is the validity/wisdom/science of the Shoulder Season.

Shrap only hunts private and if you notice only shoots what he can drive to. His opinion and experiences really don't matter. He hunts in a vacuum.

I don't understand how living and hunting the same state your whole life and being able to cultivate relationships that allow you opportunity somehow renders your opinions and experiences invalid. There are things that can be bought and others that can only be earned. The things that must be earned seem to really make the "buyers" of the world indignant.

Just so we're clear here, while we've got our share of knuckleheads in WI - the OP hails from MN.
And, see my longstanding signature line concerning the OP.


As well, I wholeheartedly approach my visits to other states just like this:

What happens on small bits of private with very little or no hunting pressure compared to the vast amounts of public land in Montana crawling with orange vests is apples and carrots. The guys that kill elk on public land year after year are the guys with real experience. Simply put, ones hunting and ones shooting.

Don't you think that gaining access to ranches is in the 'bought' category wheras pushing into remote areas of public land is more in the 'earned' category?

No gripes against any of the ways that hunters may use to get an easier hunt. That could be buying ranch access or bartering for it, hiring guides or outfitters, hunting high fence or low fence, waiting 20 years for a prime tag, convoys of machines and horses that the average guy can only dream of, depredation hunts, Ranching for Wildlife hunts, etc.
As far as I am concerned all is fair as long as you don't misrepresent it.
The trouble is that almost everyone misrepresents it.
How many times to you ask someone about a nice trophy on a wall and they almost always leave out the part about the help they had to obtain it?
Often times those I would consider in that 'bought' category are the loudest about talking themselves up.

So who is whining now? I could send you some Wisconsin cheese to go with that whine. LOL

LOL, ya got me there, thanks for clearing that up. Like I said, I have a lot of friends in WI, as well as close family. Just so we're clear, I love cheeseheads and you'd be welcome in my camp any time.

But I can't stand entitled dickheads, wherever they come from.

SO BACK TO THE HORRIBLE SHOULDER SEASON IN Montana. that needs to change . I have seen the slob side of this and don`t tell me shoulder season people are hunting, sneakin up on a herd of elk with the pickup ,loaded rifles and then bang-bang- bang shootin continues some elk dead some limp`n away it looks terrible. its hard to believe the RMEF lets this continue to go on and the future of a good elk population will suffer from this sloppy shoulder season which should be called slaughter season. Ranchers should not get their way either they do not own Montana or the Federal land or the state land ,ya some think some old spainish treaty thing is law for the ranchers ,well the Indians think their treaty is law too, its time to just say no and protect the elk herd rather your a resident or a non-resident we all want the same thing a good elk herd for all Americans on our public lands.

really ought to quit while you are behind........bob

A quick question. Does your family tree ever fork?? Your endless blather i s comical. I almost feel bad for you. As to your post. True there are many poor hunters driving around blazing away. Are you going to try and regulate that? How? Secondly, the shoulder season is about killing cow elk to reduce numbers that are too high. It is not hunting, as we see it, it is population reduction. Culling by another name. There is a distinct difference. There are two choices,have the public do it which I would prefer, or have govt hunters, or private contractors do it. Next, while ranchers don't own the state of montana, for which I am greatful, they do own a fair chunk of it. That is called private property rights, or which I am a strong proponent. You can't tell people how to run their private land. It is none of your business. There are no perfect solutions,and a magic wand can't be waved to fix every thing. For now fwp is trying to use the public as a solution. Time will tell if they are able to do the job.

A quick question. Does your family tree ever fork?? Your endless blather i s comical. I almost feel bad for you. As to your post. True there are many poor hunters driving around blazing away. Are you going to try and regulate that? How? Secondly, the shoulder season is about killing cow elk to reduce numbers that are too high. It is not hunting, as we see it, it is population reduction. Culling by another name. There is a distinct difference. There are two choices,have the public do it which I would prefer, or have govt hunters, or private contractors do it. Next, while ranchers don't own the state of montana, for which I am greatful, they do own a fair chunk of it. That is called private property rights, or which I am a strong proponent. You can't tell people how to run their private land. It is none of your business. There are no perfect solutions,and a magic wand can't be waved to fix every thing. For now fwp is trying to use the public as a solution. Time will tell if they are able to do the job.


lets get the beef cows out of the mountains for 25 years and then see if as many elk come down to feed on private property, are you or anyone else sure the elk population is to high ? maybe its the beef population is too high ? yes private property rights are important so is preserving the mountains ,have you ever been in the mountains a mile away from a road ? the land has been abused ,litter,old fences ,no grass left,trees all rub or dead from cows ,dirty muddy water,old beef mineral areas,lots of old cow manure all over and you think elk can survive the winter on what is left after too many cattle have been up there all summer long ? someday in the future this better and needs to change .

While elk don't especially like cattle, they are essentially indifferent to each other. Cattle on NFS ground, apart from beating the chit out of it, are not an issue as far as elk hunting is concerned.

Helping with roundups, spring calf work, fall immunizations and preg-checking, and fixing fence then being allowed access isn't exactly what I'd throw into the "bought" category.

I've helped with spring planting and fall harvest from driving trucks, moving equipment, ferrying grain carts, trimming trees, and parts/tool-runner bitch for a guy I know in northern MN and have 'Carte Blanche access to land I could never hunt for any amount of $$. I'll cash that in next fall when my daughter is old enough to participate in MN's youth deer season. I know a fair few landowners who wound't grant access for any amount of $$, but, it can be earned.