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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 282
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Campfire Member
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Don't know about the 338 Fed, do know it best take it's vitamins and eat a chit-ton load of wheaties if it's going to top 200gr TSX/TTSX's at 2700+ fps, 1/2 inch groups, and brutal take no prisoners performance is all I've seen from my 358 hawkeye all weather, it's a hard, fast killing little SOB. I'm about to rebore to 358. Would you be so kind to PM me some load data please.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,786 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
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I own one .338F and four .358W. Only real difference is that the .338 is a bit flatter shooting... if you need that. .358W is a monster medium bore... only thing better IMHO would be a .375 Raptor... http://www.375raptor.com/375RAPTOR/test/.375 Raptor is basically .35 Whelen on .308 brass with .375 bullets We own the reamer (so does X-Caliber)... I'll keep ya'll posted when we get a few to the range
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,786 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,786 Likes: 7 |
I have hunted with a 358 winchester for over 15 years, always by canoe and more recently by dog team. I have taken my biggest 2 moose with the 358 Winchester. I'm very pleased to see the cartridge discussed and the great praise given to the cartridge. It is my hope, that more hunters will put away their 30 caliber and 7 mm magnums and grab a 358 for ANY hunt they have planned in North America. Over the years, I've seen a bunch of "theoretical thinking out loud" and marginal information written on the internet about the 358 Winchester. Lotta these guys are posers who think they're important. Elmer Keith once said the 358 Winchester is suitable for any North American big game with 250 grain bullets. Not much has changed. Lookey here: Yukon254 downed North America's largest animal with a 250 grain partition: "Mainer, I was following your posts on the 358 right from the beginning over on the AOF. Early on a lot of guys were of the opinion that the 225 grain bullets were about as heavy as the little 358 could push reliably. You were going heavy for caliber, and if my memory is correct worked your way up to 300 grain bullets. I stopped at 250 grain NP. I would have gone heavier but the 250 NP was almost flawless on large game. The bison here are pretty spooky and quite tough to hunt. Our season runs in the winter months so a guy can do a lot of snowshoeing. Anyway I got up on a small herd that were feeding in a big slough, but they got my wind before I was where I wanted to be and busted out for the hills. Luckily I found an opening an shot a big bull that was bringing up the rear. I wanted to anchor him so held right in the middle of his shoulder. The bullet broke both shoulders and I found it perfectly mushroomed under the hide on the off side. The distance was about 90 meters and that bullet lifted that bull right off his feet. Anyone who has ever butchered a big bull bison will know that they are the biggest heaviest boned animals in NA." https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ridge-for-alaska-moose-hunt#Post13231558Of the three moose I've shot with the 358, my two largest bulls were shot with the 275 grain woodleigh. Not because the 275 woodleigh was needed, but simply because I could. The kills were immediate. I like that, as I solo hunt rivers, I want them anchored right where I hit them, not 3 seconds later in the cold water, or 3 seconds later, dead in a swamp hole: I am not interested in a 358 as a bolt action. If I wanted a bolt action, I'd grab a 9.3 mauser carbine. The 9.3 mauser carbine, from it's very beginning as a bolt gun to compete with the fancy british doubles used in Africa, cannot be outdone. To extract as much advantage from the 358 as possible, it needs to be light in weight and fast on the repeat shots. Make my 358 a Savage 99, Winchester 88 or Browning BLR carbine. The 358 gets it's magic, from a 250 grain bullet. I hunt winter caribou by dog team in open, windy, treeless country. My winter clothing is very heavy, and shots get out there to 400 yds, like this past weekend: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...78682/3-caribou-by-dog-team#Post13278682No more scoped bolt action, walking through crusted snow. Time to go light and fast with an ultralight 358 with 200 grain TTSX blazing through the 30-40 mph winds. It's only a matter of months, before I figure out it they will also work on Spring grizz: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ralight-blr-358-win-project#Post13260417I'm very reluctant to go any lighter, but if you must, the 200 grain TTSX would be my first choice. At least with the light-weight TTSX, the things have an actual shank for decent penetration after expansion, unlike the 200 grain Nosler Accubonds. Here's some of my older load development: http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com...ta-200-grain-Accubond-and-200-grain-TTSXNICE STUFF!!! You are a very Blessed man.
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
the 358 - 225 Nosler/Sierra at 2450-2500. I think they'd be the ticket for timber elk/moose. Other than more recoil what does that do that a 200 gr Partition or Accubond from a 308 won't do at the same speeds. The 200gr/308 combo will out penetrate 338 or 358 with 225 gr bullets, shoot flatter and kick less. It gives up nothing at woods ranges, yet works better for longer shots. The 308 doesn't top out with 180 gr bullets. There is a reason 338 Fed and 358 Win will never be mainstream cartridges. If someone just wants to be different then go for it, they do kill stuff. But not any deader than you could do with your 308. If the OP is wanting to shoot heavier bullets, then he'd save a lot of money and get better performance by shooting heavier bullets in his 308. Going to a larger caliber isn't necessarily an advantage. In fact it is a disadvantage unless you go significantly heavier in bullet weight. This post hit the nail on the head. Do not underestimate the penetration ability of a 200 grain bullet in the 308 Win. Awesome with the right bullet. Well, there’s not much on that parent case that doesn’t work well for the intended service. I don’t mean to digress on the thread.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 178
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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I had no intention of bashing the 358 Win. After all, I am a big 35 Whelen fan. Nothing wrong at all with a .358 caliber bullet at modest velocity. Just that the 308 gets shorted a lot when it comes to bigger bullets. I see all the time where people say anything bigger that a 180 grain bullet is too heavy for the 308. Not true.
There was no greater freedom than when I would leave Holiday Park Fish Camp heading my airboat west toward the Big Cypress. Fuel for 4 days, a good machete, an ice chest. No phone, no radio. Just God and me and the Everglades.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I see all the time where people say anything bigger that a 180 grain bullet is too heavy for the 308. Not true. A 250 grainer is.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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And no matter how hard you try, a .358 won't squeeze through a .308 bore without issues.
There are good reasons to use the .358. Just because a .308 or .338 can and does work very well does not mean there is no good that can come from the .358's. A good loading from a .356/.358Win/.35Whelen flat out stomps stuff hard at reasonable hunting distances. Fact.
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 178
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2016
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And no matter how hard you try, a .358 won't squeeze through a .308 bore without issues.
There are good reasons to use the .358. Just because a .308 or .338 can and does work very well does not mean there is no good that can come from the .358's. A good loading from a .356/.358Win/.35Whelen flat out stomps stuff hard at reasonable hunting distances. Fact. No argument from me. I shoot the 35 Whelen as my main deer/hog rifle for a reason. Just like to give the 308 its due. Works well with a 200 grain when you don't have a .358.
Last edited by Gladesman; 12/03/18.
There was no greater freedom than when I would leave Holiday Park Fish Camp heading my airboat west toward the Big Cypress. Fuel for 4 days, a good machete, an ice chest. No phone, no radio. Just God and me and the Everglades.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,179
Campfire Tracker
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Agreed. My .308 Montana pushed a lot of rifles to the back row of the safe.
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I'm wondering, if when I rebore my L579, I base my cartridge on the 284 Winchester it might be closer to a Whelen in performance? Just considering the L579 is a short action. Rusty
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,608 Likes: 1
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I agree with other posts to consider 200 grain spitzers in the 308 Win. With modern powders, you should be able to get a MV of 2450+ FPS with them. With a sectional density of .300 , and BC of near .500 of 200 grain spitzers, you get good down range energy, and great penetration. It should be easy to test/ evaluate, and a very low cost alternative to reboring. There was a thread on Alaska outdoor forums about using this set up (.308 win + 200 grain bullet) for bison. You need to develop 2000 ft-lbs energy at 100 yards with a qualifying cartridge. The .308 Win / 200 grain / 2450+ FPS load met the criteria (2400 ft-lbs @100 yards, 2000 ft-lbs @ 200 yards). Should be fine for moose needs. Plenty of moose up here in Maine are taken with factory 308 Win and 30-06 180 grain bullets. The 308 / 200 grainer should be quite a thumper. Just an easy, low-cost option to consider for a “bigger bullet”, instead of a rebore job. Link to Alaska outdoors: 308 Win / 200 grain / 2500+ FPS 308 Win / 200 grain / 2500 FPS loading data resultsThat link you provided was my load data from many years ago. That savage 99 was eventually rebored to 358. Though minimally sufficient for what might be hunting me, that load could hardly compare to a 200 grain ttsx at 2700 fps from that same 20" barrel that was rebored. Where the little 308 is maxing out, the 358 is just getting warmed up. I've a thousand mile solo mushing expedition next month with no re-supply. The ole nine-three is too heavy with winter clothes. I couldn't think of a better gun for the journey than my ultralight 358.
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My BLR with it's steep drop at the comb was buckish as the recoil seemed mostly an upward stroke. I really couldn't tell much difference between the lighter bullets and the 250's loaded to full power. That said I really didn't bench shoot the rifle much once I got it sighted in and never notice recoil when shooting game for some reason.
Dog I rescued in January
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Joined: Oct 2008
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The 338 Fed is not a long range cartridge by any stretch, but I’ve never felt limited to how far I’m going to shoot either. The numbers get much better at elk and Muley elevations, but even here it’s fine for me.
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