Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Wolves sport killing elk in Idaho.....need some help posting.

I wager 95-99% of those who want the wolf back aren't natives of ID, MT, or WY.

Alpine. You'd better do a little reasearch concerning Pres. Clinton and the Lippo Group concerning that Utah national monument. Also look into super coal and where it's found mined and processed.

You find out that the Clinton-Lippo arrangement is a bit improper and reminds me of the Cheney-Halliburton arrangement.

It's all about bucks my friend, and not about conservation.

I don't live out west unfortunately. But I will tell you this. I would not trade gators for wolves any day. I live in north central florida and even as bad as the gators are they aren't in the same league as wolves. That being said I have seen more and more panther sign in the woods as well as what looks like wild dog but is most likely coyote.

Gov. Sara Paulin of Alaska just put wolves on a $150 bounty last week. The State chopper and planes hadn't killed 100 yet this winter. I guess it was due to the lack of snow conver. Their goal was something like 675 in a few trouble spots. Wolves hadn't had a bounty in the 70's.
I assume the State will be hearing from the Sierra Club and other misguided groups soon.
The wolves just got de-listed last week in MN. WI. and MI.. They claim there are 4,000 in the three state area.
Just getting to be way too much of a good thing.

The plan for recovery was for 10 breeding pairs in each state for a total of 30. Idaho has 74 known packs and are growing at 20% per year (twice the number of wolves in Montana and Wyoming combined)

There were several wolves in of Idaho prior to their "reintroduction". I have photos of wolf tracks that I took while elk hunting in Bear Valley (central Idaho) in the early 90's.

Wolves are effecting elk populations in Idaho. We have more wolves now than are needed for recovery. The problem is that NOTHING can be done as far as managing their numbers.

I work in the upper Clearwater/Lochsa region and have seen plenty of wolf sign. Last week I came across a wolf killed elk near camp (a young cow)

The elk in that region suffered a winter kill of over 50% in 96/97 and wolves are really hurting their recovery.

Alpinecrick, keep in mind that 70-80% of the US population does not live in the wolf recovery area. I'm not a wolf hater, but think the states should have control and wolf numbers controlled.

Jim,
Seeing an occasional coyote doesn't bother me.
However, an exploding pack of large wolves gourging themselves on hundreds of elk herds, who BTW haven't been preyed on by wolves for dozens of generations, does.
Wolves need a reality check right now.
Sam

Wolves are portrayed practically as family pets via a large propaganda effort. The vast majority of Americans get their knowledge of the wolf by watching the discovery channel. As I've said before most Americans live a strip mall existence with virtually no knowledge of how the natural world works.

Amen...................

Unfortunately the wolves can't read when they leave Nat'l Park boundaries. They have become too much of a good thing and need control. Anti's, greenies, Sierra Clubbers and REI worshippers have worked themselves into management positions in the National Park Service and other Federal policy making positions. It is these pinheads that we are battling. I actually believe they like to see this wolf killing cause its "natural" and gets those nasty hunters all spun up and there is nothing they can do.

I just want to hunt some wolves...

I plan on devoting alot of time to killing them once they are delisted.

I realize that, But 70-%80 or Americans don't live in elk country or muley country, or bighorn country, or alligator country either--but they have say. This is what I'm talking about when I mention the history of wildlife management in America. What we have done with preserving large tracts of land and large numbers of wildlife is unique in human history. Even the concept of democracy goes back thousands of years--not so natural resource management for the benefit of the public

The anti-wolfers think that elk restoration was created for the sole purpose of being able to hunt them--not so.

All this has been hashed over in previous threads but....The states of Idaho, Montana and Wyoming had the opportunity to manage wolves from the time well BEFORE the Yellowstone restoration. They chose not to. Indeed, Wyoming dug in its heels (you have to understand the political-wildlifle dynamics in Wyoming), and has fought the process from the beginning. And that is the reason why the delisting did not occur two years ago. Don't blame the wolves, USFW or anything else for no delisting.

More importantly, Congress (ie: the American people) OWN the wildlife. The states have management authority of wildlife, but only if Congress believes that the states are doing a "good enough" job. If they aren't, Congress--representing the American people--have the ABSOLUTE authority to step in and take over management by creating legistation that meets certian legal standards. This was decided by the USSC in the early 1800's. So, in the case of the wolf, Congress, through the ESA, stepped in and restored wolves.

Colorado did with Lynx what the northern states refused to do with wolves--which is why Colorado has never relinquished management authority of Lynx to the feds

Local residents have an immense amount of influence on state wildlife matters, but these forums tend to attract certain segments of folks, and different sites tend to attract those who have similar views. Here on the Campfire, the M700, Leupold and Redding are generally going to be the standard answer to the standard question. On a different internet site, the majority opinion may be different.

Do you know what the entire hold-up of delisting with Wyoming vs the USFWS is over?--ONE LOUSY PACK OF WOLVES! The USFWS, seeing what happened when the wolves inside of Yellowstone Park caught distemper, increased the required number of packs outside of the Park in Wyoming from 9 packs to 10 packs. Wyoming has refused to allow it--and they have lost in federal court twice so far.

Casey

SS

1%'er

Way past due on the state control issue.

I also think that 70-80% of the US population that currently think wolves are cute & romantic would be repulsed by seeing pictures such as those here. Unfortunately, this kind of stuff rarely ever gets shown to or by the Eastern yuppie & media idiots.

Thinking of spending some quality time in the Clearwater area for some wintertime sport hunting & killing for the sake of killing of my own........

The way things are going, Alaska will not be the only state offering a bounty in the near future.

MM

Now you're Gov has got some sense--which as I suspect from other Idahoans I know, they ain't all narrow-minded:
http://www.newwest.net/index.php/city/article/idaho_is_ready_for_wolf_delisting/C108/L108/

Casey

Lochsa, I was impressed you knew about the winter kill of 96-97.
I live in the Waha area South of Lewiston, ID and I thought I'd inquire if you live nearby.

I was hoping these photo's would finally arrive on the campfire. I scanned these photo's for Lewis Turcott a couple of month's ago and emailed them out and they have been spreading accross the globe!

Lewis is 69 years young and he has never been on a computer and obviously he didn't have a digital camera so I helped him with the scanning. I can tell you that Lewis Turcott is one of the most honest, down to earth gentleman I've ever known and he literally lives in the North Fork out of a wall tent during the winter months to document this carnage. Lewis and my father who have hiked for 40+ years in these winter areas never see IDF&G, or USFWS officials monitoring what's happening on the ground and we are convinced that very few biologists were aware of how the wolves target the cows with unborn calves and this has opened a lot of eyes. My dear friend Dr. Val Geist from Canada said that with the financial cut-backs in the US and Canada in the 1960-1970's, the departments couldn't afford to put officials on the ground as they did in earlier days to closely monitor everything going on with our big game. I hope this changes and they allow budgeting for more winter observation.

We are in the process of video taping wolves actually killing cow elk and removing fetuses, due to some some pro-wolves groups indicating you could doctor the photo's but not a video. I'm to involved to spend much time here but I can say that the photo's have motivated many national leaders including Pres.Bush to initiate the ESA modifications regarding endangered species definition and specifications so we can not only delist but win in court.

The Nezperce tribe, located in Lapwai near Lewiston, was instrumental in starting the wolf restoration program as many of you know. Now the tribe is supporting the decison to delist the wolves and there is a lot of interesting facts behind this decision. Between my 75 year old father and I, we hike the Lochsa at least twice weekly, year around and we used to see a lot of tribal hunting during the winter months. With so few elk remaining in the Lochsa and other drainages here in North Central Idaho, the tribe is losing its hunting opportunities and resources also and this accounts for one of many reasons the tribe favors delisting. Its ironic that the wolves have brought some of the Idaho Sportsman and tribal members together for the first time in history!

Idaho's winter elk survey's are showing large reducions in cow and calf numbers and I think the pictures have explained a lot regarding the "why" to many biologist. These North Central Idaho wintering conditions are harsh to say the least. Many elk in Southern Idaho,Wyoming,MT,CO, Ut, migrate during the winter to areas near livestock or people and this provides some safety for the elk. We've learned in Idaho that when elk relocate near ranches the wolves gravitate to livestock most of the time and they are removed. North Idaho elk don't have any safety "zones" when they migrate. Most of the elk just drop down a few hundered yards in our deep rugged canyons and they have a tough time getting through some winters even without wolves. The only surplus killing we've seen is in these harsh winter conditions when the elk are trapped and can't go anywhere and in our opinion do the most damage to the elk herds. During the Spring, Summer and Fall months the wolves have to work for their prey.

I realize we will always have wolves, I'm just hoping that we can get the delisting approved through the courts, so the states can manage the wolves as the original plan was intended.

Crick is right,

Thats not sport killing,

That's just wanton lust to kill, no sport involved.

If the stated Federal goal was really 300 animals (as the article states) to be considered a "success", all the more reason for de-listing, setting hunting seasons and quotas and if quotas are not filled, then a bounty goes into effect until the desired number is reached.

If this doesn't happen soon, they'll be exterminated.

MM

waha,

I really appreciate your post at least you really added some insight and common sense to what we see going on here.

Good luck on filming, the world needs to know the truth. Were tired of narrow minded sierra club members barfing out propaganda as fast as goose can crap.

You sir are the real deal, thanks!