Brad, I'm not trying to be critical. It just looked like 2 wound areas on his side.
Good eye!
When he went down, in his death-throes, he somehow managed to impale himself... the higher blood spot near the spine is where his 6th point got caught in his hide. In all my years hunting I've never seen this... it was a real chore to get the antler unstuck.
Proof right there, the 7/08 has an added "Shrapnel effect" not seen in other rounds
Re: Marketing, actually the desire to see higher sales of ammo and components drove MARKETING to support R&D to build a better mousetrap than REM's 260 and 7/08, simply buy putting good stuff together, at attractive prices. 6.5CM factory ammo, runs circles around the other 2. Hornady schools Remington in..... Marketing.
The 2 most accurate rounds I have shot, are the 6mmBR and 6.5x47. The CM..... is close. Tailor a 260 or 7/08 with handloads, and for hunting purposes you are for most purposes...same same. As to the Killing part......as always, the driver determines success if using a good bullet.
I always enjoy the caliber arguments. Most that argue against suitability of obviously suitable rifle choices, unbeknownst to them have way more to worry about than their rifle.
6.5 Creed popularity is because of marketing for sure and good job they've done.
I shot my first moose with a 260Rem simply because I was hunting with my 80yr old dad and he cant shoot a hard kicking gun anymore. With that said my dad has shot all his moose over the years with a 6.5x55. Also worth mentioning he's never had a shot over 150 yards.
I would rather some use a small 6.5 they can shoot well over using a canon they can't shoot straight.
Not everyone can afford multiple rifles for different applications.....keep the shots close and the 6.5 will do the job.
PS Helped a friend recover an elk he shot with a 243 last fall.....it went 30 yards and piled up....shot was 90 yards.
Here's one I took in 2017 with a 6.5 140 grain JLK. Seemed to work well enough, although the Schmidt Bender PMII was not the best rifle scope for 10 yard shots in the timber.
"Load or Rifle X is 2X more accurate then Load or Rifle Y."
Such lack of logic seems to be common today, as a result of becoming misguided about what matters and what doesn't.
I'd ask------- If you are shooting from your belly over a pack on uneven ground that is not flat (a) can you tell the difference in accuracy?
And then (B) why would it matter ----when your target's kill zone is as large as a breadbox?
If your 7 mag or 30-06 are, lets say, 10X more accurate then you need, how is having one 20X more accurate then you need going to help you?
If you can hit the vital zone of the elk with a rifles you are more familiar with at 2X or 3X farther then you should be shooting anyway, going to a "more accurate" round that is less powerful and may not give the same degree of penetration is exactly backwards of what you should do.
I live in elk country. I hunt in some of the best elk country every single year ,and I have been hunting and guiding for elk hunts for most of my life and I am NOT a young man anymore. I have about 1/2 a century of experience in this.
This obsession with "accuracy" and the loss of sight of everything else that is far more important, is a national phenomenon that is 100% unjustified in elk hunting.
I have killed more of them than I can count and seen probably between 3X to 5X more then that killed by other hunters.
In my life, the longest shot I EVER made on an elk was about 400 yards. The next longest shot ever was about 300, and the next longest was about 175. ALL the others have been killed at 150 and less, with about 50% being killed at 50 yards and less. And that's not because I could have have shot farther, but the existence of a brain and some ability to hunt caused me, for 50 years, to always get closer. It's not hard to get under 500 yards from an elk and if you can't you (or your guide) are not doing it right.
But with all that said, it's in no way a condemnation of the 6.5 CM if you load a good bullet in it. I would feel fine hunting them with my 6.5X54 M/S which is less powerful then your CM. But the bullet is important and that bullet should retain 70% or more of it's weight for elk hunting. Most of the super-accuracy bullets made today for the 6.5MM bore will not do that. Barnes, Nosler Partitions, Swift, and anything that is bonded are your friends when you hunt elk. (note, that is not just for the 6.5 either, but also for your 7MM and your 30 cal too)
But your 6.5CM is just fine. So are your other rifles. The 6.5CM is very close to the same ballistics of the 6.5 Swede, and that is a success story and history that is beyond question.
If you are going to invest in a dream hunt, and spend time and money to come west to do it, do not make a mistake of changing horses mid-stream. Go with the rifle you are most familiar with. To know what to do, go shoot 20 rounds from sitting, kneeling and standing with each rifle at a paper target of about 16" square. Do it all from 150 yards, but when you shoot do so in the order of 3 shots 6 times and 2 shots 1 time. (=20 rounds) And do so at a "go" signal with only 15 seconds per string. Any shots not fired in 15 seconds or less from the "Go" are counted as misses. Don't cheat. If you cheat you are only cheating yourself, and it will not help you to do that.
The rifle that you get the tightest group with, in the shortest time, is the one to bring. This test is to give you an HONEST overview of which rifle you will do the best with, not which one is "more accurate" It shows you which rifle YOU shoot best in REAL hunting times and positions. It's YOU doing the shooting, not your gun!
Elk are big. You don't need and can't even use the difference between 1.5 MOA and .3 MOA.
thats good advice Ive hunted elk mostly in Colorado and Wyoming about every other year , sometimes I get two or three years in a row, or two states in succession in one year, hunting for over 50 years, guys worry far too much about rifles caliber and long range , I think all but two of the elk Ive shot were at well under 200 yards and any decent 30/06 would have got the job done splendidly. I prefer and have a great deal of confidence in my 340 wby and 375 H&H, but my late hunting partner used a 358 win BLR for decades successfully, the key is not in the rifle or cartridge is mostly in being in good physical shape, confidence in your selected skills and equipment, research on the area hunted, and knowing how to find game and dogged unrelenting persistence. If you look over the kill statistics most states show less than a 25% kill ratio to licences in even good areas, in my opinion thats simply because if you drive around any area youll see guys sitting in camp at any time of the day after the first two or three days and most guys pack it in well before the seasons over.
I always enjoy the caliber arguments. Most that argue against suitability of obviously suitable rifle choices, unbeknownst to them have way more to worry about than their rifle.
Isn’t that the truth.
Like I said earlier in the thread
Originally Posted by Brad
I’d rather talk about beer, a more interesting topic. Heady Topper is outstanding!
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
But as has been pointed out many times before (and not just one Campfire but other places) that the 6.5 Creedmoor did NOT appear 2-3 years ago, and become popular because of "marketing hype." Instead it was introduced in 2007 as as target round. Then some hunters started using it, and discovered it worked very well, in fact better than already established 6.5mm rounds withe the same basic ballistics.
This was because Hornady made very accurate factory ammo which didn't cost much, and the first factory hunting rifles were very accurate, and not just with handloads but that factory ammo. This is very different than what Remington did with the .260, with it's 1-9 twist and often mediocre factory ammo-, hat after a few years you couldn't buy (if you could find it) in anything except the 140 Core-Lokt.
The 6.5 Creedmoor is also VERY different than the 6.5x55, because 6.5x55 chambers and actions have varied so widely since 1892 that nobody can make factory ammo that works anywhere nearly as good as 6.5 Creedmoor ammo in various 6.5x55 rifles. This is a major point that many rifle loonies (like you) miss, because they assume EVERYBODY handloads, and probably for a custom rifle, or at least a "tuned" factory rifle.
The 6.5 Creedmoor is VERY accurate in just about any rifle, and there's a wide variety of pretty inexpensive factory ammo available loaded with an incredibly wide variety of both match and hunting bullets. I know all this because of having many 6.5 rifles over the years, including several factory and custom .260's and 6.5x55's (as well as a bunch of other 6.5's), plus actually owning, shooting and hunting with several 6.5 Creedmoors. In fact the very first 100-yard group I fired with my first 6.5 Creedmoor, a factory Ruger, back in 2010, was with Hornady factory ammo. It measured around .6 inch--for 5 shots, not the typical three shots most hunters shoot today.
All of this also why the 6.5 Creedmoor has become one of the standard world-wide cartridges chambered in factory rifles, which means not just in America but Europe and elsewhere. One of my friends is a long-time South African professional hunter who also owns a big sporting goods store. He reports that around 80% of the new rifles he sells these days are 6.5 Creedmoors--because they work, whether with factory ammo or handloads.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Marketing gets something new off the ground but the public ultimately decides its fate. Doesn't matter if its the 6.5CM, a new bow feature, a "miracle" fabric or a new vacuum cleaner. Marketing cannot defeat the real world value of the new item. If it has merit - marketing will not be needed as word of mouth will take over and sell the product. In the case of the CM, the history of its development was to provide long-range shooters a better cartridge. They apparently succeeded. As an encore, they created a suitable hunting bullet to go with the round and the rest is history - as Mule Deer just chronicled.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
Marketing gets something new off the ground but the public ultimately decides its fate. Doesn't matter if its the 6.5CM, a new bow feature, a "miracle" fabric or a new vacuum cleaner. Marketing cannot defeat the real world value of the new item. If it has merit - marketing will not be needed as word of mouth will take over and sell the product. In the case of the CM, the history of its development was to provide long-range shooters a better cartridge. They apparently succeeded. As an encore, they created a suitable hunting bullet to go with the round and the rest is history - as Mule Deer just chronicled.
Well said Joe.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Here's one I took in 2017 with a 6.5 140 grain JLK. Seemed to work well enough, although the Schmidt Bender PMII was not the best rifle scope for 10 yard shots in the timber.
You don't see many guys that eager to finish caping. Nice going, GH.
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
It isn’t about marketeers selling the 6.5 Creedmoor. Quite the contrary- you never needed a magnum to kill elk easily. THAT was and is marketing. What you are seeing with the Creedmoor is a rediscovery by the masses that you don’t need magnums.
Nothing more.
I absolutely agree. I have always been a 7 mag fan and still am, but they are spending a lot of time sitting around, since the arrival of my Creed and two, .260s. As I get older, I am having a lot more fun shooting/testing loads, with a light-kicking, accurate rifle, that costs relatively little to reload.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
Going to Colorado on an elk hunt and I am planning on taking my 6.5 Creedmoor....am I crazy??
I have been shooting it along with my 7 Mag and 30-06 all summer...the Creedmoor just out-shoots the other 2 rifles. The Creedmoor shoots just as well at 250 yds as it does at 100 yds. In my head I have 2 voices: one telling me I am under gunned, and the other telling me that a well paced bullet will kill an animal every time.
I will be using Hornady Precision Hunter Ammo with the 143 grain ELD-X bullet and will limit my shots to 250 yds and under....what are your thoughts...am I crazy??
PS - I am starting to fade away from the big magnums I have shot in prior years...taking a beating and with decent accuracy is not fun anymore, LOL!!
You've already made your mind up, but hard to understand why the '06 isn't going,
Doubt the accuracy diff is that much to matter on an Elk size target at any reasonable range.
My only kill to date was this Alaskan caribou at 275 yds. with a 143gr. ELD-X with 43gr R-16. One shot and that was it. That is McKinley in the background - 75 miles away.
14B in the talkeetnas or 20A? If that's is a 14B caribou dandy bull for sure.. if it's a20A bull great job getting a good bull, those damn things think they are sheep half the time..
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
If everything goes right, your 6.5 CM will kill an elk, but the same thing can be said for the .460 Weatherby.
I've killed elk and seen elk killed with smaller cartridges. I will continue to use my .300 Weatherby or 7 mm RM for my elk.
Originally Posted by buffybr
If everything goes right, your 6.5 CM will kill an elk, but the same thing can be said for the .460 Weatherby.
I've killed elk and seen elk killed with smaller cartridges. I will continue to use my .300 Weatherby or 7 mm RM for my elk.
I have also used lesser rounds on elk, under ideal conditions. Nowadays, as I get older, and opportunities become fewer for me, my .300 Wby. will get the nod. Elk shot well with the big .300 eliminate tracking jobs.
I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than living as a puppet or a slave....
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