|
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 449
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 449 |
What makes the creedmore so special? For years we've had a plethora of 6.5. Cartridges. I don't see the creed doing anything the 6.5 284 , 260 Rem. 6.5 Sweed , 6.5 Rem. Mag. 264 Win .mag won't do . Am I missing something?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089 |
Yes,, you are missing something. Exactly what has been explained many times on the Campfire, and elsewhere.
Including how to spell Creedmoor.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 449
Campfire Member
|
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 449 |
My apologies . I will shut my yap .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,924
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,924 |
Most of those older rounds were either designed to shoot 160 gr FMJ ammo at very low pressure, or 120 gr hunting bullets. Target shooters started trying to shoot 140-150 gr high BC bullets in them, but found that they had to heavily modify the rifles and shoot non spec hand loads in order to make them work. Magazine boxes wouldn't work and the barrels were twisted wrong. The 6.5 CM was designed to give shooters off the shelf rifles and ammo that would duplicate what was being done with custom rigs. Then hunters discovered that it worked very well for hunting.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 449
Campfire Member
|
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 449 |
Ahhhhhh I see .
Thank you for the very cordial answer sir .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089 |
Clynn,
Sorry I was so abrupt. Here's a more detailed explanation, which I posted a couple days ago elsewhere on the Campfire:
The 6.5 Creedmoor did NOT appear 2-3 years ago, and become popular because of "marketing hype." Instead it was introduced in 2007 as as target round. Then some hunters started using it, and discovered it worked very well, in fact better than already established 6.5mm rounds withe the same basic ballistics.
This was because Hornady made very accurate factory ammo which didn't cost much, and the first factory hunting rifles were very accurate, and not just with handloads but that factory ammo. This is very different than what Remington did with the .260, with it's 1-9 twist and often mediocre factory ammo--that after a few years you couldn't buy (if you could find it) in anything except the 140 Core-Lokt.
The 6.5 Creedmoor is also VERY different than the 6.5x55, because 6.5x55 chambers and actions have varied so widely since 1892 that nobody can make factory ammo that works anywhere nearly as good as 6.5 Creedmoor ammo in various 6.5x55 rifles. This is a major point that many rifle loonies (like you) miss, because they assume EVERYBODY handloads, and probably for a custom rifle, or at least a "tuned" factory rifle.
The 6.5 Creedmoor is VERY accurate in just about any rifle, and there's a wide variety of pretty inexpensive factory ammo available loaded with an incredibly wide variety of both match and hunting bullets. I know all this because of having owned many 6.5 rifles over the years, including several factory and custom .260's and 6.5x55's (as well as a bunch of other 6.5's), plus actually owning, shooting and hunting with several 6.5 Creedmoors. In fact the very first 100-yard group I fired with my first 6.5 Creedmoor, a factory Ruger, back in 2010, was with Hornady factory ammo. It measured around .6 inch--for 5 shots, not the typical three shots most hunters shoot today.
All of this also why the 6.5 Creedmoor has become one of the standard world-wide cartridges chambered in factory rifles, which means not just in America but Europe and elsewhere. One of my friends is a long-time South African professional hunter who also owns a big sporting goods store. He reports that around 80% of the new rifles he sells these days are 6.5 Creedmoors--because they work, whether with factory ammo or handloads.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239 |
Best assessment I've seen JB. Thanks. I know I'm a believer, big time.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 449
Campfire Member
|
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 449 |
Thank you John. Very informative. I was indeed, missing something.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,026
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,026 |
I like my Creed, more and more every time I use it.. 
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
[ I like my Creed, more and more every time I use it.. Cite it. Laughing.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 303
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 303 |
As usual, JB is largely correct but in this instance has omitted (probably for simplicity) the well developed and already available 6.5x47 Lapua which predates the 6.5 Creedmoor by at least 2 years.
At the best the Creedmoor was a parallel development done in isolation of products made in Europe. At worst there has been much mythologising to get around an almost exact copy of a well designed European cartridge which owes a great deal to the 6x47 Swiss Match by RUAG.
Whichever way you want to twist it, both work very well and can make an average shooter look good. The 6.5 Lap is very much a handloader proposition as factory ammunition is expensive, exquisitely manufactured, but ultimately not very available.
Last edited by Adamjp; 12/30/18.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
The 264-250 ain't a "copy".
Hint....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,086
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,086 |
As usual, JB is largely correct but in this instance has omitted (probably for simplicity) the well developed and already available 6.5x47 Lapua which predates the 6.5 Creedmoor by at least 2 years.
At the best the Creedmoor was a parallel development done in isolation of products made in Europe. At worst there has been much mythologising to get around an almost exact copy of a well designed European cartridge which owes a great deal to the 6x47 Swiss Match by RUAG.
Whichever way you want to twist it, both work very well and can make an average shooter look good. The 6.5 Lap is very much a handloader proposition as factory ammunition is expensive, exquisitely manufactured, but ultimately not very available. Read Mule Deer's post above a couple three more times, then your last sentence a couple three times, and finally ask yourself a couple three times if he omitted it for simplicity's sake.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,892
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,892 |
You will find the 6.5 Creedmoor Happy Hunting Grounds at the end of the Yellow Brick Road. You will find Unicorns & Magic Dragons aplenty. Your magic rifle will kill them with ease as you bask in the rainbow glow emitted from the bullet flight path. They may simply drop dead by just pointing the gun in their direction.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
With actual USE..."Magic" abounds.
Even in Texas.
Hint.
Laughing!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 |
As usual, JB is largely correct but in this instance has omitted (probably for simplicity) the well developed and already available 6.5x47 Lapua which predates the 6.5 Creedmoor by at least 2 years.
At the best the Creedmoor was a parallel development done in isolation of products made in Europe. At worst there has been much mythologising to get around an almost exact copy of a well designed European cartridge which owes a great deal to the 6x47 Swiss Match by RUAG.
Whichever way you want to twist it, both work very well and can make an average shooter look good. The 6.5 Lap is very much a handloader proposition as factory ammunition is expensive, exquisitely manufactured, but ultimately not very available. When is the last time you saw a selection of 6.5 x 47 ammo in a sporting goods store? Or a factory rifle chambered in this cartridge on this side of the pond?
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,201
Campfire Savant
|
|
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,201 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 679
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 679 |
I was a .260 fan for many years, way before the Creedmoor was brought out. Remington has screwed themselves several times over the years, ie: 6mm Remington, .260...They just dont seem to get behind their products like Hornady and other manufacturers do. I shot .260 in long range matches for many years and was so invested in the caliber that it took me a long time to finally switch. I got really tired of chasing my brass in these matches. This past year I switched to the Creedmoor due to the low cost of factory rounds and due to the ease of finding quality brass. Although my .260’s are very very accurate, and I can load my .260’s to out perform the 6.5 Creedmoor, I do believe the Creed is a better design and is more inherently accurate. With all of the companies backing the creedmoor there’s no reason for me to continue with my .260’s. Just my assessment.
Godspeed,
Chance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,892
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,892 |
I was a .260 fan for many years, way before the Creedmoor was brought out. Remington has screwed themselves several times over the years, ie: 6mm Remington, .260...They just dont seem to get behind their products like Hornady and other manufacturers do. I shot .260 in long range matches for many years and was so invested in the caliber that it took me a long time to finally switch. I got really tired of chasing my brass in these matches. This past year I switched to the Creedmoor due to the low cost of factory rounds and due to the ease of finding quality brass. Although my .260’s are very very accurate, and I can load my .260’s to out perform the 6.5 Creedmoor, I do believe the Creed is a better design and is more inherently accurate. With all of the companies backing the creedmoor there’s no reason for me to continue with my .260’s. Just my assessment.
Godspeed,
Chance I would surely hate that.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414 |
Never understood the, "marketing hype" attempted explanation for the Creedmoor's popularity. Sure a lot of piss'n and moaning about it though.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,823
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,823 |
Never understood the, "marketing hype" attempted explanation for the Creedmoor's popularity. Sure a lot of piss'n and moaning about it though. CBHS symptoms.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097 |
Never understood the, "marketing hype" attempted explanation for the Creedmoor's popularity. Sure a lot of piss'n and moaning about it though. Marketing over the long haul only works if you have a product worth marketing, something that will justify a marketing campaign. Hornady hit a home run by doing a lot of listening and a lot of hard work. They saw what the target shooting market needed, built a round to accommodate that need. What's not to like. Precision chambers, premium brass for a caliber known to have great bullets, a diversity of high quality factory ammo and all at a reasonable price. Why wouldn't it be successful. It's the total package, IMO, that's the secret of their success. I don't remember any maker putting the whole package together like these folks did. Isn't it great when engineers, ballisticians and shooters lead a company, not bean counters. Maybe Remington should read a chapter or two in the Hornady book.... DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 |
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 9,596
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 9,596 |
Lets not forget that it wasn't all Hornady, & their engineers or marketing department. Dennis DeMille, a competitive shooter & G.M. of Creedmoore Sports played a major role in the development of the cartridge. Give Hornady credit for listening & loading good ammo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097 |
Lets not forget that it wasn't all Hornady, & their engineers or marketing department. Dennis DeMille, a competitive shooter & G.M. of Creedmoor Sports played a major role in the development of the cartridge. Give Hornady credit for listening & loading good ammo. Yep, they listened. Took the info and made it happen. More than can be said for most other manufacturers... DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189 |
Never understood the, "marketing hype" attempted explanation for the Creedmoor's popularity. Sure a lot of piss'n and moaning about it though. I'm sure the marketing has had something to do with it, but I think "Tulip Mania" best describes it. If you don't know what I mean by Tulip Mania, look it up. Humans are not rational creatures, and never have been, which is why current types of marketing work at all.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 303
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 303 |
Never understood the, "marketing hype" attempted explanation for the Creedmoor's popularity. Sure a lot of piss'n and moaning about it though. Marketing over the long haul only works if you have a product worth marketing, something that will justify a marketing campaign. Hornady hit a home run by doing a lot of listening and a lot of hard work. They saw what the target shooting market needed, built a round to accommodate that need. What's not to like. Precision chambers, premium brass for a caliber known to have great bullets, a diversity of high quality factory ammo and all at a reasonable price. Why wouldn't it be successful. It's the total package, IMO, that's the secret of their success. I don't remember any maker putting the whole package together like these folks did. Isn't it great when engineers, ballisticians and shooters lead a company, not bean counters. Maybe Remington should read a chapter or two in the Hornady book.... DF That is the difference. A package was created...and then they marketed the hell out of it. To experienced shooters, it is the marketing that causes discomfort as they know there equally effective products that were not packaged or marketed as aggressively.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089 |
Adamjp,
Perhaps you could list those "equally effective products."
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,911
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,911 |
and perhaps examples of all these 'marketing the hell out of it'....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,601
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,601 |
This tread is getting more interesting by the minute. I bought a Mossberg predator 6.5 Creedmoor in 2017 after shooting my son-in-law's Ruger predator and was not disappointed by all the "marketing hype". Don't remember who said " It's not bragging if you can do it" but it certainly applies to the Creedmoor. I have taken whitetail and antelope with it since drinking the Creedmoor koolaid and seen several others taken from 100 to 450 yards and am sold on the round. I especially appreciate the mild recoil on my 65 yo shoulder too.
Ken
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 679
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 679 |
Adamjp,
Perhaps you could list those "equally effective products." The .260 Remington can do all that the 6.5 Creedmoor can do. The was no real marketing behind it, and the first rifles were barreled with slow twist rates. Switch the two marketing strategies and we'd all Be singing the praises of the .260. The two rounds are very close.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 930
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 930 |
Close is like second place, ya still lost.... 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 303
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 303 |
Perhaps you could list those "equally effective products." 260 Remington 6.5x47 Lapua 7-08 Remington Are three cartridges that are equally effective, launching bullets with a G1 BC above .65 at 2650fps to 2750fps. The two Remington cartridges were not marketed terribly well and suffered poor uptake leading to poor choices of factory ammunition. In my experience the Lapua cartridge is slightly easier to get an accurate load for than the Creedmoor, but it is a handloader only proposition (with relatively expensive high quality brass). So whilst it is equally effective, it isn't even close in availability and only appeals to those who build custom rifles and handload. It is not an 'everyman' proposition like the others. You could also throw 6.5 Swede in there too if you were shooting a Tikka T3 with their medium length action. Some will say that the 260 gets higher velocities than the Creed, which delivers higher velocities than the Lapua. At less than 70fps between each one that difference is a mind game, not a discernible difference at the point of impact. It is ammunition in summer v winter, a fast barrel v a slow one, a 24in v a 22in barrel. Similarly, you could add a fast twist 243 and 22/250 in there if companies chose to make them. After all, a 6mm Creedmoor equals performance of a 243 but commonly found twisted to 1:8 or 1:7.5 instead of the usual 243 1:9.5 or 1:10. I'm not saying the Creedmoor does not deserve a reputation for easy accuracy and useful performance for the everyman. There is no other combination that you could buy from most any sporting goods store that would perform as well out of the box - this is why the 223 is more popular than the 222 or 222 Magnum. I am saying that equal results can be achieved with other cartridges when chambered in rifles with similar specifications and loaded with similar ammunition. Many years ago the same feverish support was observed around the 270 Winchester and the 300 Weatherby at their respective times so this is nothing new in the shooting world.
Last edited by Adamjp; 01/02/19.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,622
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,622 |
Perhaps you could list those "equally effective products." There is no other combination that you could buy from most any sporting goods store that would perform as well out of the box Seems like you answered MD's question right there. If it ain't available off the shelf, it ain't an "equally effective product".
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097 |
Close is like second place, ya still lost.... Yep...  Adamjp, you make points that contradict your premise. As has been pointed out, it's the total package, from case, to bore, to twist, to bullets, to brass, to quality factory ammo, to price off the shelf, etc., etc... All the points you make just reinforce all those good second place winners... Those you reference just have pieces of the pie, but "if only they had faster twist, etc, etc." They don't...  DF
Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 01/02/19.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,892
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,892 |
Don't remember who said " It's not bragging if you can do it" but it certainly applies to the Creedmoor.
Ken Elmer Keith
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 303
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 303 |
Availability off the shelf and being an effective cartridge are not the same thing. Definition of effective in English:
effective ADJ.
1 Successful in producing a desired or intended result. A cartridge's effectiveness is usually considered in terms of accuracy and the influence it has on the intended target. If it ain't available off the shelf, it ain't an "equally effective product". By this measure a 223 is more effective than any other centrefire cartridge. We all know that for many uses the 223 is not as effective as other cartridges. This is why it is illegal in some places for certain uses. The 6.5 Creedmoor is an effective target and light/medium game cartridge. The 260 Remington, 7-08 Remington, 6.5x55 Swedish and 6.5x47 Lapua are equally effective in these roles by virtue of their relatively light recoil, ability to launch accurate .65+ G1 BC bullets at 2650 to 2750fps and where necessary, good terminal results on normal medium game. If you were to take a Tikka T3 Varmit in each of these cartridges, buy or assemble equal cartridges then it would difficult to spot a difference between them. Availability at your local sporting goods store is not a measure of effectiveness of the cartridge, it is a measure of customer demand, cost, profit margin and supplier reliability.
Last edited by Adamjp; 01/02/19.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,954
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,954 |
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414 |
Late getting back here. I honestly have no idea what that "Hornady marketing hype" is or was or WTF? I don't do cable TV, gun magazines, nada. I heard about it here, read about it online from other users, one gun writer (token gun writer? LOL), bought one, shot it, read more, liked it, bought more, shot more, liked it more, and sticking with it.
Hater be haters. Missing the point ain't "effective." LOL
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,126
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,126 |
Perhaps you could list those "equally effective products." 260 Remington 6.5x47 Lapua 7-08 Remington Are three cartridges that are equally effective, launching bullets with a G1 BC above .65 at 2650fps to 2750fps. The two Remington cartridges were not marketed terribly well and suffered poor uptake leading to poor choices of factory ammunition. In my experience the Lapua cartridge is slightly easier to get an accurate load for than the Creedmoor, but it is a handloader only proposition (with relatively expensive high quality brass). So whilst it is equally effective, it isn't even close in availability and only appeals to those who build custom rifles and handload. It is not an 'everyman' proposition like the others. You could also throw 6.5 Swede in there too if you were shooting a Tikka T3 with their medium length action. Some will say that the 260 gets higher velocities than the Creed, which delivers higher velocities than the Lapua. At less than 70fps between each one that difference is a mind game, not a discernible difference at the point of impact. It is ammunition in summer v winter, a fast barrel v a slow one, a 24in v a 22in barrel. Similarly, you could add a fast twist 243 and 22/250 in there if companies chose to make them. After all, a 6mm Creedmoor equals performance of a 243 but commonly found twisted to 1:8 or 1:7.5 instead of the usual 243 1:9.5 or 1:10. I'm not saying the Creedmoor does not deserve a reputation for easy accuracy and useful performance for the everyman. There is no other combination that you could buy from most any sporting goods store that would perform as well out of the box - this is why the 223 is more popular than the 222 or 222 Magnum. I am saying that equal results can be achieved with other cartridges when chambered in rifles with similar specifications and loaded with similar ammunition. Many years ago the same feverish support was observed around the 270 Winchester and the 300 Weatherby at their respective times so this is nothing new in the shooting world. And the 260 Bobcat (aka 6.5 x 250 Sav) predates those three you mentioned (except for the grand old 6.5x55 SE) BUT Hornady hit the Creedmoor home run, so I give credit where credit is due...
Pursuit may be, it seems to me, perfect without possession.
Robert Kelley Weeks (1840-1876)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,622
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,622 |
Perhaps you could list those "equally effective products." 260 Remington 6.5x47 Lapua 7-08 Remington Are three cartridges that are equally effective, launching bullets with a G1 BC above .65 at 2650fps to 2750fps. The two Remington cartridges were not marketed terribly well and suffered poor uptake leading to poor choices of factory ammunition. In my experience the Lapua cartridge is slightly easier to get an accurate load for than the Creedmoor, but it is a handloader only proposition (with relatively expensive high quality brass). So whilst it is equally effective, it isn't even close in availability and only appeals to those who build custom rifles and handload. It is not an 'everyman' proposition like the others. You could also throw 6.5 Swede in there too if you were shooting a Tikka T3 with their medium length action. Some will say that the 260 gets higher velocities than the Creed, which delivers higher velocities than the Lapua. At less than 70fps between each one that difference is a mind game, not a discernible difference at the point of impact. It is ammunition in summer v winter, a fast barrel v a slow one, a 24in v a 22in barrel. Similarly, you could add a fast twist 243 and 22/250 in there if companies chose to make them. After all, a 6mm Creedmoor equals performance of a 243 but commonly found twisted to 1:8 or 1:7.5 instead of the usual 243 1:9.5 or 1:10. I'm not saying the Creedmoor does not deserve a reputation for easy accuracy and useful performance for the everyman. There is no other combination that you could buy from most any sporting goods store that would perform as well out of the box - this is why the 223 is more popular than the 222 or 222 Magnum. I am saying that equal results can be achieved with other cartridges when chambered in rifles with similar specifications and loaded with similar ammunition. Many years ago the same feverish support was observed around the 270 Winchester and the 300 Weatherby at their respective times so this is nothing new in the shooting world. Availability off the shelf and being an effective cartridge are not the same thing. Nice try. But we weren't talking about CARTRIDGES. We were talking about EQUALLY EFFECTIVE PRODUCTS. If you were to take a Tikka T3 Varmit in each of these cartridges, buy or assemble equal cartridges then it would difficult to spot a difference between them. Hmm, sounds difficult. Since they don't sell the T3 Varmit in 260 Remington, 7-08 Remington, 6.5x55 Swedish or 6.5x47 Lapua (NO PRODUCT). (Available in 6.5 Creedmoor.) And the high BC bullets may not work in the rifle that I can find chambered in 260 Remington, 7-08 Remington, 6.5x55 Swedish (NO PRODUCT). (6.5 Creedmoor; no problem) And match accuracy ammo is unavailable, hard to find, and/or expensive (NO PRODUCT). (6.5 Creedmoor; no problem) But keep fooling yourself. They are EQUALLY EFFECTIVE PRODUCTS. It's all just marketing hype. 
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089 |
Adamjp,
Your response to my question about "equally effective" cartridges was exactly what I expected.
The anti-Creedmoor rifle loonies who inhabit the Campfire (like you) apparently believe EVERY shooter and hunter on earth handloads, and is willing to spend considerable money on custom rifles or rebarreling, to use other 6.5 cartridges than the Creedmoor.
But why should they, when they can buy off-the-rack rifles and factory ammo that will do the same things? I purchased my present 6.5 Creedmoor for the vast sum of $350, and for another $25 can buy a box of factory ammo that groups 5 shots well under an inch. And my rifle's very first 5-shot group at 100 yards with handloads measured .33 inch, which is not exactly an aberration. The other three factory 6.5 Creedmoors I've owned were also very accurate.
In case you might think I'm prejudiced because of only owning and shooting 6.5 Creedmoors, my safe includes a number of rifles in some of those "equally effective" cartridges, including a Tikka T3 .260 Remington, a Douglas-barreled Ruger in 7mm-08, and a "full custom" 6.5x55 with a minimum-throated match chamber in a Lilja barrel. I had to modify the magazine in the Tikka to seat even common hunting spitzers out to the lands, and while the 6.5x55 and 7-08 shoot very well, neither is as consistently accurate , with a wide variety of factory ammo or handloads, as the least-accurate factory 6.5 Creedmoor I've owned.
Yes, there are reasons beside the "recent" publicity on the 6.5 Creedmoor for its extreme popularity. I put "recent" in quotes because the cartridge was introduced a dozen years ago, and has kept growing in popularity since then. Most new factory centerfire rounds only sell well for 2-3 years before starting to fade. That's because publicity can only do so much, and factoryPR departments can only afford to flog some new cartridge for a short time before the cartridge must stand on its own. (In a way, it's like book publishing. If a new book doesn't continue selling after the initial announcement and publicity, then the company eventually quits printing copies, because there's no sense in printing books that never leave warehouses.)
Cartridges that become profitable within that initial period usually stick around for a while, and those that are selling FAR better after a dozen years tend to become world standards, meaning that just about every company making sporting rifles chambers them, and just about every ammunition company makes ammo. That is exactly what's happened with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Not only do major American companies produce both rifles and ammo, but so do many European companies--and that trend continues to spread.
One of my friends is a South African professional hunter who also owns a big sporting goods store. A few months ago he told me that the majority of new rifles he sells today are 6.5 Creedmoors. The reason? They work, not just for target shooting but the constant commercial meat-hunting that takes place in SA, since game meat can legally be sold in supermarkets and restaurants. Such meat-hunters like the 6.5 Creedmoor because of its accuracy and light recoil, allowing them to precisely place shots to ruin the least amount of valuable meat, along with affordable, accurate factory rifles and ammo. Such "cullers" are among the most practical hunters in the world, and since they're in business to make a profit, are not likely to spend money on the latest "fad."
But according to you, and others like you, the 6.5 Creedmoor's world-wide and growing popularity, a dozen years after its introduction, is totally due to publicity.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,840
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,840 |
Some could hear angels sing from heaven and claim it's just a pack of coyotes.....haters gonna hate
My dog is a member of the "Turd Like Clan"
Covert Trail Cameras are JUNK
3 Time Dinkathon Champion #DinkGOAT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,406
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,406 |
A package was created...and then they marketed the hell out of it.
.
Still trying to figure out what where all this marketing took place. I never have seen an ad for one, but I don't watch outdoors tv or read the gun rags. That being said, based on my own research, word of mouth, and prior knowledge, I picked one up and it does everything I expected it to.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Still ain't figured out all the hate over a headstamp. I can only conclude there are more than a few brothers out there named Creedmoor that have knocked up a bunch of white women.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755 |
The butt-hurt exhibited by those invested in similar cartridges just goes on and on. Recently, it's started to show up over the 6mm version as well, from folks with .243s and 6x47s who keep pointing out that their pets can do anything the new guy can, from custom rifles with fast-twist barrels and sometimes other custom features, and in the case of the 6x47, requiring necking down pricey Lapua brass. Great fun, all of it, but can't begin to make a ripple in the marketplace against excellent ready to go rifles and ammo. No reason for the whiners to switch over, but also no reason for someone just getting in to take the hard way, unless being different and smarmy is an advantage worth pursuing.
Still baffling to me though, is why anyone gives a fat rat's azz what anyone else uses, like it's a personal slight on their character.
What fresh Hell is this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,823
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,823 |
The 257 Roberts whiners show a lot of CBHS too.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,406
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,406 |
I can't wait to hear the whiners when a guy can buy an inexpensive factory rifle and launch factory 88 elds at warp speed. That is going to be a monster.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,471
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,471 |
A package was created...and then they marketed the hell out of it.
.
Still trying to figure out what where all this marketing took place. I never have seen an ad for one, but I don't watch outdoors tv or read the gun rags. That being said, based on my own research, word of mouth, and prior knowledge, I picked one up and it does everything I expected it to. +1 I hear more about the 6.5 CM on the campfire than anyplace else. I get Handloader and Rifle magazines and don't see many articles or ads there.
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097 |
The butt-hurt exhibited by those invested in similar cartridges just goes on and on. IMO,the key is "invested". Once a decision is made to invest in a product, some feel the need to justify that decision, protect that product. Some truck owners tend to bad mouth other brand trucks, just 'cause... My truck is better than your truck because it's my truck...  Not too different, here. They just can't stand for a new product to challenge or possibly upstage their pet project. Sounds like grammar school playground logic (that may be over use of the word, logic)... DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755 |
A lot of that investment is emotional, IMHO. Just when a feller gets to enjoy feeling all special about his toy, somebody comes along and does it maybe just a bit better, over the counter yet.
What fresh Hell is this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,823
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,823 |
A lot of that investment is emotional, IMHO. Just when a feller gets to enjoy feeling all special about his toy, somebody comes along and does it maybe just a bit better, over the counter yet. You beat me to it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755 |
What fresh Hell is this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097 |
I agree, it's all emotional... Logic wouldn't have a foot hold in some of these discussions. DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,907
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,907 |
Adamjp,
Your response to my question about "equally effective" cartridges was exactly what I expected.
The anti-Creedmoor rifle loonies who inhabit the Campfire (like you) apparently believe EVERY shooter and hunter on earth handloads, and is willing to spend considerable money on custom rifles or rebarreling, to use other 6.5 cartridges than the Creedmoor.
But why should they, when they can buy off-the-rack rifles and factory ammo that will do the same things? I purchased my present 6.5 Creedmoor for the vast sum of $350, and for another $25 can buy a box of factory ammo that groups 5 shots well under an inch. And my rifle's very first 5-shot group at 100 yards with handloads measured .33 inch, which is not exactly an aberration. The other three factory 6.5 Creedmoors I've owned were also very accurate.
In case you might think I'm prejudiced because of only owning and shooting 6.5 Creedmoors, my safe includes a number of rifles in some of those "equally effective" cartridges, including a Tikka T3 .260 Remington, a Douglas-barreled Ruger in 7mm-08, and a "full custom" 6.5x55 with a minimum-throated match chamber in a Lilja barrel. I had to modify the magazine in the Tikka to seat even common hunting spitzers out to the lands, and while the 6.5x55 and 7-08 shoot very well, neither is as consistently accurate , with a wide variety of factory ammo or handloads, as the least-accurate factory 6.5 Creedmoor I've owned.
Yes, there are reasons beside the "recent" publicity on the 6.5 Creedmoor for its extreme popularity. I put "recent" in quotes because the cartridge was introduced a dozen years ago, and has kept growing in popularity since then. Most new factory centerfire rounds only sell well for 2-3 years before starting to fade. That's because publicity can only do so much, and factoryPR departments can only afford to flog some new cartridge for a short time before the cartridge must stand on its own. (In a way, it's like book publishing. If a new book doesn't continue selling after the initial announcement and publicity, then the company eventually quits printing copies, because there's no sense in printing books that never leave warehouses.)
Cartridges that become profitable within that initial period usually stick around for a while, and those that are selling FAR better after a dozen years tend to become world standards, meaning that just about every company making sporting rifles chambers them, and just about every ammunition company makes ammo. That is exactly what's happened with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Not only do major American companies produce both rifles and ammo, but so do many European companies--and that trend continues to spread.
One of my friends is a South African professional hunter who also owns a big sporting goods store. A few months ago he told me that the majority of new rifles he sells today are 6.5 Creedmoors. The reason? They work, not just for target shooting but the constant commercial meat-hunting that takes place in SA, since game meat can legally be sold in supermarkets and restaurants. Such meat-hunters like the 6.5 Creedmoor because of its accuracy and light recoil, allowing them to precisely place shots to ruin the least amount of valuable meat, along with affordable, accurate factory rifles and ammo. Such "cullers" are among the most practical hunters in the world, and since they're in business to make a profit, are not likely to spend money on the latest "fad."
But according to you, and others like you, the 6.5 Creedmoor's world-wide and growing popularity, a dozen years after its introduction, is totally due to publicity. Exactly.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755 |
One of my sons is due to be "blessed" with a gift of one of my rifles, if he ever shows up to pick one. If, as I suspect, he selects my .308 Hawkeye predator, a 6.5 CM of some sort may well replace it, if it actually gets replaced. Now that I've got a good '06 to shoot up all those .308 bullets, my cheap old soul will have one less reason to stay with the .308. No doubt that in the light rifles I'm coming to prefer, the Creed(s) are more geezer-friendly.
What fresh Hell is this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,130
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,130 |
A lot of that investment is emotional, IMHO. Just when a feller gets to enjoy feeling all special about his toy, somebody comes along and does it maybe just a bit better, over the counter yet. Since you chose to use my "invested" statement from a previous post, I guess having reamers for 22, 6, and 6.5 x47's and 8 or nine guns/ barrels chambered with them, is a bit more than "emotional". I and others mention a round on the 47 case as another option to look at, not replace or compete with a favorite, nothing more.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,073
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,073 |
Late getting back here. I honestly have no idea what that "Hornady marketing hype" is or was or WTF? I don't do cable TV, gun magazines, nada. I heard about it here, read about it online from other users, one gun writer (token gun writer? LOL), bought one, shot it, read more, liked it, bought more, shot more, liked it more, and sticking with it.
Hater be haters. Missing the point ain't "effective." LOL This is basically how I came to own a 6.5 CM. At first, I'll admit I didn't get it, but the more I looked at all aspects of the cartridge, the more it made sense to me AND being educated by Stick on the subjects of RPM, COAL and throat geometry, I purchased a Barrett FC/6.5 CM and do not regret it in the least. To somewhat plagiarize: It's about connecting the dots, the FC does this extremely well and so does the 6.5 Creed.
24HCF in its entirety, is solely responsible for why my children do not have college funds, my mortgage isn't paid-off and why I will never retire early enough to enjoy the remainder of my life.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,074
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,074 |
This new fangled 6.5mm CM sounds interesting. I might have to give it a shot. 
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,594
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,594 |
A lot of that investment is emotional, IMHO. Just when a feller gets to enjoy feeling all special about his toy, somebody comes along and does it maybe just a bit better, over the counter yet. Exactly. Another issue is that many Campfire members are, umm, well, 'experienced with birthdays'. By and large, such people (including myself here) are not usually excited about change and newfangled stuff. In fact, they often have a soft spot for whatever was new when they were 30 years old, or what grandpa used, or what their favorite gunwriter wrote about. Plus, they sure as hell don't want to like what those 'wannabe' young new shooters and hunters with their fancy tactical looking equipment like, because us old dudes know so much more, right??. So, it becomes easier to dismiss the new stuff, than embrace it for what it is. It's not just the Creedmoor. Just tell an old guy about getting 100 fps higher velocities with R26 than H4831 and wait for him to tell you that you are playing fast and loose with your life......
The first great thing is to find yourself and for that you need solitude and contemplation. I can tell you deliverance will not come from the rushing noisy centers of civilization. It will come from the lonely places. Fridtjof Nansen
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,911
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,911 |
have a soft spot for whatever was new when they were 30 years old, or what grandpa used
Shrapnel is gonna kick your ass......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097 |
Just tell an old guy about getting 100 fps higher velocities with R26 than H4831 and wait for him to tell you that you are playing fast and loose with your life......
Yep and this new fangled smokeless powder is just a passing fad... Getting to the age where I don't like change, either... DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,594
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,594 |
have a soft spot for whatever was new when they were 30 years old, or what grandpa used
Shrapnel is gonna kick your ass...... Drat, didn't think about that! Was Shrap 30 when the 270 came out???
The first great thing is to find yourself and for that you need solitude and contemplation. I can tell you deliverance will not come from the rushing noisy centers of civilization. It will come from the lonely places. Fridtjof Nansen
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097 |
have a soft spot for whatever was new when they were 30 years old, or what grandpa used
Shrapnel is gonna kick your ass...... Drat, didn't think about that! Was Shrap 30 when the 270 came out??? Ouch...  DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755 |
A lot of that investment is emotional, IMHO. Just when a feller gets to enjoy feeling all special about his toy, somebody comes along and does it maybe just a bit better, over the counter yet. Since you chose to use my "invested" statement from a previous post, I guess having reamers for 22, 6, and 6.5 x47's and 8 or nine guns/ barrels chambered with them, is a bit more than "emotional". I and others mention a round on the 47 case as another option to look at, not replace or compete with a favorite, nothing more. Sorry, my friend, but you're giving my memory waaayyy too much credit! I think I was clear that the investment I was talking about is emotional, not financial or otherwise tangible. Your situation is one where sticking with a proven favorite and/or its kin makes perfect sense, kinda like me keeping a .270 (to name just one) around. Wouldn't want to discourage anyone from using what they already have or like, for any reason. On the other hand, I said before, there's absolutely no reason for anyone buying or building a new rifle to saddle themselves with a wildcat, or an obscure, difficult to feed cartridge when the same performance is available off the shelf, or to fuss and stamp their feet when something new and useful comes out that does what their pet does, but simply and relatively inexpensively. Obvious exceptions are vintage guns, or attempts at recreating same, or "just because", all good reasons to do things the hard way.
What fresh Hell is this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755 |
have a soft spot for whatever was new when they were 30 years old, or what grandpa used
Shrapnel is gonna kick your ass...... Drat, didn't think about that! Was Shrap 30 when the 270 came out??? Hey, wait a minute... I know ingwe is older than Shrap, and I'm older than ingwe... Hey, wait a minute!
What fresh Hell is this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,911
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,911 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,594
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,594 |
have a soft spot for whatever was new when they were 30 years old, or what grandpa used
Shrapnel is gonna kick your ass...... Drat, didn't think about that! Was Shrap 30 when the 270 came out??? Hey, wait a minute... I know ingwe is older than Shrap, and I'm older than ingwe... Hey, wait a minute! Oops. I may need to go back to the Upland Game forum.
The first great thing is to find yourself and for that you need solitude and contemplation. I can tell you deliverance will not come from the rushing noisy centers of civilization. It will come from the lonely places. Fridtjof Nansen
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364 |
Ok, I’ll bite. How do the CMs feed from the magazine ?
That .462” diameter shoulder has me pondering that aspect of their performance.
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,845
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,845 |
It is amazing how the "butt-hurt" runs strong in the shooting community when it comes to rifle calibers. It's like people might take offense if someone else has a different favorite color. As I've said previously, on the continuum of cartridges, the differences between each and the ones directly above and below it on said continuum in so miniscule as to be almost completely un-determinable by most mere mortals.
Having said all of that, if some newcomer to shooting were to approach me and ask for my recommendation for a on-rifle-do-all for the average hunter, based on all we know about ammo cost, inherent accuracy, ballistic capabilities, etc., I would be hard-pressed to suggest something other than the 6.5 Creedmoor as the "best" option. I do, however, acknowledge that anything ranging from the 243 through the 30-06 would not be leading said individual astray.
Last edited by TheBigSky; 01/04/19.
_________________________________________________________________________
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Ok, I’ll bite. How do the CMs feed from the magazine ?
That .462” diameter shoulder has me pondering that aspect of their performance. Fine
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,896
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,896 |
It is amazing how the "butt-hurt" runs strong in the shooting community when it comes to rifle calibers. It's like people might take offense if someone else has a different favorite color. As I've said previously, on the continuum of cartridges, the differences between each and the ones directly above and below it on said continuum in so miniscule as to be almost completely un-determinable by most mere mortals.
Having said all of that, if some newcomer to shooting were to approach me and ask for my recommendation for a on-rifle-do-all for the average hunter, based on all we know about ammo cost, inherent accuracy, ballistic capabilities, etc., I would be hard-pressed to suggest something other than the 6.5 Creedmoor as the "best" option. I do, however, acknowledge that anything ranging from the 243 through the 30-06 would not be leading said individual astray. While "butt-hurt" certainly exists regarding cartridges, the opposite end of the spectrum exists. That is, unfailing admiration of cartridges; the thinking that one round is somehow far superior to another, when in reality most will do exactly the same thing. With the 6.5 Creedmoor, this unfailing admiration is often exhibited in places like a bar during hunting season. If there's a group of flat bills drinking cheap beer in said bar, at some point one will pull out his I-phone and start forcing everyone around him to look at pictures of dead things which he "smacked" or "laid the hammer down on" at ridiculous ranges. This fellow will then proclaim how the cartridge he was using was by far the best choice for said "harvest". In 2018, there's a good chance that cartridge is one of the big Noslers, or a 6.5 Creedmoor. After a few more drinks, said hero will mumble something about the extra rounds it took to bring dead animals to bear for pictures, as some of the rounds fired went into the hillside or blew off a leg. Cartridge selection is as much an emotional choice as it is practical, and when emotions are involved they will run the gamut from love to hate. When exposed to experiences such as those described in the above paragraph, it's easier for an observer to slide more towards the negative, lest one be lumped in with said flat bill brigade for using the same round.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
So in short, chicks and emotions are the problem, both sides of the coin.
No surprises there
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,845
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,845 |
It is amazing how the "butt-hurt" runs strong in the shooting community when it comes to rifle calibers. It's like people might take offense if someone else has a different favorite color. As I've said previously, on the continuum of cartridges, the differences between each and the ones directly above and below it on said continuum in so miniscule as to be almost completely un-determinable by most mere mortals.
Having said all of that, if some newcomer to shooting were to approach me and ask for my recommendation for a on-rifle-do-all for the average hunter, based on all we know about ammo cost, inherent accuracy, ballistic capabilities, etc., I would be hard-pressed to suggest something other than the 6.5 Creedmoor as the "best" option. I do, however, acknowledge that anything ranging from the 243 through the 30-06 would not be leading said individual astray. While "butt-hurt" certainly exists regarding cartridges, the opposite end of the spectrum exists. ......................... lest one be lumped in with said flat bill brigade for using the same round. I can't disagree with you pg, that's why my first sentence specifically referenced, topically, "rifle calibers" (note the plural).
_________________________________________________________________________
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,074
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,074 |
It is amazing how the "butt-hurt" runs strong in the shooting community when it comes to rifle calibers. It's like people might take offense if someone else has a different favorite color. As I've said previously, on the continuum of cartridges, the differences between each and the ones directly above and below it on said continuum in so miniscule as to be almost completely un-determinable by most mere mortals.
Having said all of that, if some newcomer to shooting were to approach me and ask for my recommendation for a on-rifle-do-all for the average hunter, based on all we know about ammo cost, inherent accuracy, ballistic capabilities, etc., I would be hard-pressed to suggest something other than the 6.5 Creedmoor as the "best" option. I do, however, acknowledge that anything ranging from the 243 through the 30-06 would not be leading said individual astray. While "butt-hurt" certainly exists regarding cartridges, the opposite end of the spectrum exists. That is, unfailing admiration of cartridges; the thinking that one round is somehow far superior to another, when in reality most will do exactly the same thing. With the 6.5 Creedmoor, this unfailing admiration is often exhibited in places like a bar during hunting season. If there's a group of flat bills drinking cheap beer in said bar, at some point one will pull out his I-phone and start forcing everyone around him to look at pictures of dead things which he "smacked" or "laid the hammer down on" at ridiculous ranges. This fellow will then proclaim how the cartridge he was using was by far the best choice for said "harvest". In 2018, there's a good chance that cartridge is one of the big Noslers, or a 6.5 Creedmoor. After a few more drinks, said hero will mumble something about the extra rounds it took to bring dead animals to bear for pictures, as some of the rounds fired went into the hillside or blew off a leg. Cartridge selection is as much an emotional choice as it is practical, and when emotions are involved they will run the gamut from love to hate. When exposed to experiences such as those described in the above paragraph, it's easier for an observer to slide more towards the negative, lest one be lumped in with said flat bill brigade for using the same round. Pretty much how the .300 Weatherby was discussed in bars when it was the hotness. The big difference is that the 6.5mm CM can actually deliver for the average hunter. That is what makes it unique, the hype is warranted.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,556
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,556 |
It is amazing how the "butt-hurt" runs strong in the shooting community when it comes to rifle calibers. It's like people might take offense if someone else has a different favorite color. As I've said previously, on the continuum of cartridges, the differences between each and the ones directly above and below it on said continuum in so miniscule as to be almost completely un-determinable by most mere mortals.
Having said all of that, if some newcomer to shooting were to approach me and ask for my recommendation for a on-rifle-do-all for the average hunter, based on all we know about ammo cost, inherent accuracy, ballistic capabilities, etc., I would be hard-pressed to suggest something other than the 6.5 Creedmoor as the "best" option. I do, however, acknowledge that anything ranging from the 243 through the 30-06 would not be leading said individual astray. While "butt-hurt" certainly exists regarding cartridges, the opposite end of the spectrum exists. That is, unfailing admiration of cartridges; the thinking that one round is somehow far superior to another, when in reality most will do exactly the same thing. With the 6.5 Creedmoor, this unfailing admiration is often exhibited in places like a bar during hunting season. If there's a group of flat bills drinking cheap beer in said bar, at some point one will pull out his I-phone and start forcing everyone around him to look at pictures of dead things which he "smacked" or "laid the hammer down on" at ridiculous ranges. This fellow will then proclaim how the cartridge he was using was by far the best choice for said "harvest". In 2018, there's a good chance that cartridge is one of the big Noslers, or a 6.5 Creedmoor. After a few more drinks, said hero will mumble something about the extra rounds it took to bring dead animals to bear for pictures, as some of the rounds fired went into the hillside or blew off a leg. Cartridge selection is as much an emotional choice as it is practical, and when emotions are involved they will run the gamut from love to hate. When exposed to experiences such as those described in the above paragraph, it's easier for an observer to slide more towards the negative, lest one be lumped in with said flat bill brigade for using the same round. Pretty much how the .300 Weatherby was discussed in bars when it was the hotness. The big difference is that the 6.5mm CM can actually deliver for the average hunter. That is what makes it unique, the hype is warranted. Based on the hammering of a fair number of deer at varying ranges, I have to agree with this. I just, plain, like the 6.5, whether it is a Creed, or .260.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 303
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 303 |
Adamjp,
Your response to my question about "equally effective" cartridges was exactly what I expected.
The anti-Creedmoor rifle loonies who inhabit the Campfire (like you) apparently believe EVERY shooter and hunter on earth handloads, and is willing to spend considerable money on custom rifles or rebarreling, to use other 6.5 cartridges than the Creedmoor.
But why should they, when they can buy off-the-rack rifles and factory ammo that will do the same things? I purchased my present 6.5 Creedmoor for the vast sum of $350, and for another $25 can buy a box of factory ammo that groups 5 shots well under an inch. And my rifle's very first 5-shot group at 100 yards with handloads measured .33 inch, which is not exactly an aberration. The other three factory 6.5 Creedmoors I've owned were also very accurate.
...
Yes, there are reasons beside the "recent" publicity on the 6.5 Creedmoor for its extreme popularity. I put "recent" in quotes because the cartridge was introduced a dozen years ago, and has kept growing in popularity since then. Most new factory centerfire rounds only sell well for 2-3 years before starting to fade. That's because publicity can only do so much, and factoryPR departments can only afford to flog some new cartridge for a short time before the cartridge must stand on its own. (In a way, it's like book publishing. If a new book doesn't continue selling after the initial announcement and publicity, then the company eventually quits printing copies, because there's no sense in printing books that never leave warehouses.)
Cartridges that become profitable within that initial period usually stick around for a while, and those that are selling FAR better after a dozen years tend to become world standards, meaning that just about every company making sporting rifles chambers them, and just about every ammunition company makes ammo. That is exactly what's happened with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Not only do major American companies produce both rifles and ammo, but so do many European companies--and that trend continues to spread.
...
But according to you, and others like you, the 6.5 Creedmoor's world-wide and growing popularity, a dozen years after its introduction, is totally due to publicity. John, Yes, I handload. For full disclosure, where possible I use Lapua brass, then Norma and then others although I'm looking forward to developments with the emerging case manufacturers like Alpha, ADG and Petersen. Lapua/Norma are preferred through hard won experience as when I start reloading I will batch the available brass - the variation between good ol' Hornady/Winchester/Federal brass in the same packet is scary and will not help in the long run. If I were asked by someone wanting to get into longer match ranges or a good rifle for light/medium game at any useful range I would certainly recommend a 6.5 Creedmoor. In fact I did back in November when one of my staff was about to undergo a shoulder reconstruction and doctors advice was 'no shooting' for a long time. I recommended a 6.5 Creed in a Varmit weight rifle with a very effective muzzle brake and a limbsaver recoil pad (the 30mm one). He starts shooting that next month (3 months after the surgery). The combination is such that it is an effective package and should be at the top for anyone. FWIW my staffer also reloads, but cannot for probably a year as he cannot manipulate the press post shoulder surgery. The longevity of the Creedmoor is down to the fact that it does work. As I said in an earlier post... ...I'm not saying the Creedmoor does not deserve a reputation for easy accuracy and useful performance for the everyman. There is no other combination that you could buy from most any sporting goods store that would perform as well out of the box - this is why the 223 is more popular than the 222 or 222 Magnum... Simple fact is that when first launched the Creedmoor was heavily marketed by Hornady, just like they did the 204 Ruger before it, and most recently with the 6.5 PRC (full page adverts in the magazines, pushing product to the reviewers in print and online). Nothing wrong with that, but you must admit that Hornady do have a habit of strong marketing campaigns, sometimes for pretty mediocre product. As you state, a cartridge popularity usually wanes after 2-3 years (the 6.8 SPC is the latest of a long line of Remingtons marketing missteps). That the Creedmoor continues to sell strongly suggests that it has reached a level of acceptance with the buying public, passing a fad stage several years ago and has became a benchmark cartridge. My issue is that I have an innate dislike of faddish behavior perpetrated by manufacturer marketing and industry magazines/websites which are sometimes nothing more than advertorials. I know there is an industry out there to sell products, be they rifles, ammunition, or column inches (or is that column electrons now?). I look forward to reading about it, but don't think I won't consider the outcomes with a level head and call BS when the words don't add up to reality. My point is, and remains that there are equally effective products for those who choose to use them. Yes, they do lack ammunition options across the counter which makes them a reloader choice, but they are as effective as the Creedmoor. You may want to reconsider labelling me (and some others here) an "anti-Creedmoor rifle loony". If you were to take a Tikka T3 Varmit in each of these cartridges, buy or assemble equal cartridges then it would difficult to spot a difference between them. Hmm, sounds difficult. Since they don't sell the T3 Varmit in 260 Remington, 7-08 Remington, 6.5x55 Swedish or 6.5x47 Lapua (NO PRODUCT). (Available in 6.5 Creedmoor.) As usual, you only look to what is sold over the counter in the USA, not what is available from the factory or by special order from Beretta USA. Tikka T3x Varmit Stainless Factory Production
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414 |
Holeee-phucqk. It is not popular because of the marketing a decade ago. .
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401 |
Amazing that the younger crowd gets criticized here of all places. With hunting numbers declining and all....
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,262
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,262 |
Adamjp,
Perhaps you could list those "equally effective products." The .260 Remington can do all that the 6.5 Creedmoor can do. The was no real marketing behind it, and the first rifles were barreled with slow twist rates. Switch the two marketing strategies and we'd all Be singing the praises of the .260. The two rounds are very close. I'd say the Creedmoor's success is more due to R&D strategy than "marketing" strategy. It was shooters, engineers and ballisticians that came up with it. Not MBAs or marketing experts. The marketing budgets of all the shooting-sports companies combined isn't big enough to do "marketing" of anything on an effectual level. One company doing it, as you suggest, is completely ludicrous. It can't happen. There is absolutely no "marketing-driven" reason for the success of the 6.5 Creedmoor. Truth be known, since Hornady is a much smaller company than Remington was when it introduced the .260, I'd lay very comfortable odds that the .260 Rem had far more "marketing hype" and budget than the 6.5 Creedmoor did. We all know how that worked out.
Last edited by seattlesetters; 01/04/19.
What could be a sadder way to end a life than to die having never hunted with great dogs, good friends and your family?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,262
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,262 |
Yes, I handload. For full disclosure, where possible I use Lapua brass, then Norma and then others although I'm looking forward to developments with the emerging case manufacturers like Alpha, ADG and Petersen. Lapua/Norma are preferred through hard won experience as when I start reloading I will batch the available brass - the variation between good ol' Hornady/Winchester/Federal brass in the same packet is scary and will not help in the long run.
My issue is that I have an innate dislike of faddish behavior perpetrated by manufacturer marketing and industry magazines/websites which are sometimes nothing more than advertorials. I know there is an industry out there to sell products, be they rifles, ammunition, or column inches (or is that column electrons now?). I look forward to reading about it, but don't think I won't consider the outcomes with a level head and call BS when the words don't add up to reality.
My point is, and remains that there are equally effective products for those who choose to use them. Yes, they do lack ammunition options across the counter which makes them a reloader choice, but they are as effective as the Creedmoor.
You may want to reconsider labelling me (and some others here) an "anti-Creedmoor rifle loony".[/url]
If you cost your company three times as much money in materials and four times as much money in time to do the same job the guy in the cube next to you does, please help me understand how on Earth you are just as effective as he is?
Last edited by seattlesetters; 01/04/19.
What could be a sadder way to end a life than to die having never hunted with great dogs, good friends and your family?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089 |
Adamjp,
"Where possible I use Lapua brass, then Norma and then others although I'm looking forward to developments with the emerging case manufacturers like Alpha, ADG and Petersen. Lapua/Norma are preferred through hard won experience as when I start reloading I will batch the available brass - the variation between good ol' Hornady/Winchester/Federal brass in the same packet is scary."
--Gee, I am also VERY well acquainted with Lapua and Norma brass, along with Petersen and others. But have been using Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor brass since 2010, when I bought my first 6.5 Creedmoor rifle, and off-the-shelf Ruger Hawkeye at a local store. Also bought a few boxes of factory ammo, and the rifle's very first 5-shot group at 100 yards with 140-grain A-Max factories went .6". The brass proved very consistent in dimensions, and had also lasted for many handloads since then--along with subsequent 6.5 Hornady brass. In fact I've found Hornady brass in a bunch of other rounds from the .250 Savage to .300 Weatherby excellent in every respect in the past several years. Have also been using Hornady brass for my new 6.5 PRC, in a custom rifle with a Lilja barrel that weights about 7-1/2 pounds scoped. It shoots half-inch FIVE-shot groups with either Hornady factory ammo, or several handloads using OTB Hornady brass.
"Simple fact is that when first launched the Creedmoor was heavily marketed by Hornady, just like they did the 204 Ruger before it, and most recently with the 6.5 PRC (full page adverts in the magazines, pushing product to the reviewers in print and online). Nothing wrong with that, but you must admit that Hornady do have a habit of strong marketing campaigns, sometimes for pretty mediocre product."
Yeah, Hornady promoted the 6.5 Creedmoor during its first three years, just like any company does. But I had learned long ago to wait a little before trying any new round, to see if it lasted. Which is why I waited until 2010 before buying one, along with ammo. Bought it because the trusted guys at the local gun store said both rifles and ammo shot great, not because of anything I read. The word-of-mouth proved to be accurate. (Oh, and I did the same thing with the .204, and found it was everything claimed by Hornady, when using their ammo in an off-
the-shelf rifle.)
"My issue is that I have an innate dislike of faddish behavior perpetrated by manufacturer marketing and industry magazines/websites which are sometimes nothing more than advertorials. I know there is an industry out there to sell products, be they rifles, ammunition, or column inches (or is that column electrons now?). I look forward to reading about it, but don't think I won't consider the outcomes with a level head and call BS when the words don't add up to reality."
Would love to hear how "faddish" applies to a cartridge that is now a world-wide standard, a dozen years after its introduction.
"My point is, and remains that there are equally effective products for those who choose to use them. Yes, they do lack ammunition options across the counter which makes them a reloader choice, but they are as effective as the Creedmoor."
Oh, gee, what an insight. I might just run out and buy rifles chambered in those other rounds, but already own just about every one you would list, and none are the first I've owned in those chamberings, often going back at least two decades. Once again,your answer was exactly what I expected.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Adamjp,
Your response to my question about "equally effective" cartridges was exactly what I expected.
The anti-Creedmoor rifle loonies who inhabit the Campfire (like you) apparently believe EVERY shooter and hunter on earth handloads, and is willing to spend considerable money on custom rifles or rebarreling, to use other 6.5 cartridges than the Creedmoor.
But why should they, when they can buy off-the-rack rifles and factory ammo that will do the same things? I purchased my present 6.5 Creedmoor for the vast sum of $350, and for another $25 can buy a box of factory ammo that groups 5 shots well under an inch. And my rifle's very first 5-shot group at 100 yards with handloads measured .33 inch, which is not exactly an aberration. The other three factory 6.5 Creedmoors I've owned were also very accurate.
...
Yes, there are reasons beside the "recent" publicity on the 6.5 Creedmoor for its extreme popularity. I put "recent" in quotes because the cartridge was introduced a dozen years ago, and has kept growing in popularity since then. Most new factory centerfire rounds only sell well for 2-3 years before starting to fade. That's because publicity can only do so much, and factoryPR departments can only afford to flog some new cartridge for a short time before the cartridge must stand on its own. (In a way, it's like book publishing. If a new book doesn't continue selling after the initial announcement and publicity, then the company eventually quits printing copies, because there's no sense in printing books that never leave warehouses.)
Cartridges that become profitable within that initial period usually stick around for a while, and those that are selling FAR better after a dozen years tend to become world standards, meaning that just about every company making sporting rifles chambers them, and just about every ammunition company makes ammo. That is exactly what's happened with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Not only do major American companies produce both rifles and ammo, but so do many European companies--and that trend continues to spread.
...
But according to you, and others like you, the 6.5 Creedmoor's world-wide and growing popularity, a dozen years after its introduction, is totally due to publicity. John, Yes, I handload. For full disclosure, where possible I use Lapua brass, then Norma and then others although I'm looking forward to developments with the emerging case manufacturers like Alpha, ADG and Petersen. Lapua/Norma are preferred through hard won experience as when I start reloading I will batch the available brass - the variation between good ol' Hornady/Winchester/Federal brass in the same packet is scary and will not help in the long run. If I were asked by someone wanting to get into longer match ranges or a good rifle for light/medium game at any useful range I would certainly recommend a 6.5 Creedmoor. In fact I did back in November when one of my staff was about to undergo a shoulder reconstruction and doctors advice was 'no shooting' for a long time. I recommended a 6.5 Creed in a Varmit weight rifle with a very effective muzzle brake and a limbsaver recoil pad (the 30mm one). He starts shooting that next month (3 months after the surgery). The combination is such that it is an effective package and should be at the top for anyone. FWIW my staffer also reloads, but cannot for probably a year as he cannot manipulate the press post shoulder surgery. The longevity of the Creedmoor is down to the fact that it does work. As I said in an earlier post... ...I'm not saying the Creedmoor does not deserve a reputation for easy accuracy and useful performance for the everyman. There is no other combination that you could buy from most any sporting goods store that would perform as well out of the box - this is why the 223 is more popular than the 222 or 222 Magnum... Simple fact is that when first launched the Creedmoor was heavily marketed by Hornady, just like they did the 204 Ruger before it, and most recently with the 6.5 PRC (full page adverts in the magazines, pushing product to the reviewers in print and online). Nothing wrong with that, but you must admit that Hornady do have a habit of strong marketing campaigns, sometimes for pretty mediocre product. As you state, a cartridge popularity usually wanes after 2-3 years (the 6.8 SPC is the latest of a long line of Remingtons marketing missteps). That the Creedmoor continues to sell strongly suggests that it has reached a level of acceptance with the buying public, passing a fad stage several years ago and has became a benchmark cartridge. My issue is that I have an innate dislike of faddish behavior perpetrated by manufacturer marketing and industry magazines/websites which are sometimes nothing more than advertorials. I know there is an industry out there to sell products, be they rifles, ammunition, or column inches (or is that column electrons now?). I look forward to reading about it, but don't think I won't consider the outcomes with a level head and call BS when the words don't add up to reality. My point is, and remains that there are equally effective products for those who choose to use them. Yes, they do lack ammunition options across the counter which makes them a reloader choice, but they are as effective as the Creedmoor. You may want to reconsider labelling me (and some others here) an "anti-Creedmoor rifle loony". If you were to take a Tikka T3 Varmit in each of these cartridges, buy or assemble equal cartridges then it would difficult to spot a difference between them. Hmm, sounds difficult. Since they don't sell the T3 Varmit in 260 Remington, 7-08 Remington, 6.5x55 Swedish or 6.5x47 Lapua (NO PRODUCT). (Available in 6.5 Creedmoor.) As usual, you only look to what is sold over the counter in the USA, not what is available from the factory or by special order from Beretta USA. Tikka T3x Varmit Stainless Factory ProductionWhat is your age?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,083
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,083 |
I like my 6.5CM Hunter and I can buy reasonably priced Ammo unlike my 260 Rem which was a reload only proposition, not that I minded.
Mind you, I do regret selling that Kimber Monatana 260.
The factory Ammo availability means I haven’t reloaded for the 6.5CM, yet!
Happy hunting.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,622
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,622 |
If you were to take a Tikka T3 Varmit in each of these cartridges, buy or assemble equal cartridges then it would difficult to spot a difference between them. Hmm, sounds difficult. Since they don't sell the T3 Varmit in 260 Remington, 7-08 Remington, 6.5x55 Swedish or 6.5x47 Lapua (NO PRODUCT). (Available in 6.5 Creedmoor.) HaHaHa! You must be stupid! Try calling Beretta USA and tell them you want to order one! Good luck!
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414 |
Call Beretta and ask for duhh varmit.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,267
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,267 |
My point is, and remains that there are equally effective products for those who choose to use them. Yes, they do lack ammunition options across the counter which makes them a reloader choice, but they are as effective as the Creedmoor.
Well, it's hard to argue with such logic...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364 |
Ok, I’ll bite. How do the CMs feed from the magazine ?
That .462” diameter shoulder has me pondering that aspect of their performance. Fine Anyone care to elaborate ?
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,089 |
Sure. I have now owned four factory 6.5 Creedmoor rifles, a Ruger Hawkeye, Weatherby Vanguard, and two Ruger Americans. Have also shot several other 6.5 Creedmoors extensively, including a Franchi Momentum, H-S Precision and Fierce Arms. All fed cartridges fine.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364 |
Thanks MD 😉
It would appear then that the “Over-Improved” .462” CM shoulder isn’t a detriment to smooth feeding. Back in the day, lots of taper was the answer for smooth feeding.
Apparently not so much nowadays
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,840
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,840 |
My dog is a member of the "Turd Like Clan"
Covert Trail Cameras are JUNK
3 Time Dinkathon Champion #DinkGOAT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414 |
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364 |
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,911
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,911 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,414 |
Yes, it's good to have this resolved...
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,700
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,700 |
My grandson had Jon Beanland build him a 6.5 Creedmoor on a M700 Remington action and first day he got the rifle to my range he asked me to shoot three rounds with it. Photo below shows the shots. I told him the last shot broke just a tat low. This was with 147 gr. Hornady ammo. After getting a zero at 200 yards he shot this rifle all the way back to 800 yards and it shoots extremely well. Joel was constantly ringing a 6" swinger we have at 800 and frankly it's just damn boring to shoot! ![[Linked Image]](https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7872/31681875057_bf5cf39900_z.jpg) Untitled by Sharps Man, on [bleep] ![[Linked Image]](https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7880/32749039958_056d38b87e_z.jpg) Untitled by Sharps Man, on [bleep]
Last edited by Sharpsman; 01/10/19.
Even birds know not to land downwind!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,484
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,484 |
Glad this is resolved.....again.....and i can stop worrying about a chronograph, if my depends are leaking, and what the weather is in states im not currently in. Feels good to just to sit at loading bench with 6.5cm brass, 4350, and 147elds.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Ok, I’ll bite. How do the CMs feed from the magazine ?
That .462” diameter shoulder has me pondering that aspect of their performance. Fine Anyone care to elaborate ? Yes, it feeds FINE, hence fine. Not sure how much more elaborate I can get.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
It's a neat round, with a lot of pluses, But I'm not really motivated to get something else in that .25-.284 size range. I do have an 8" twist .280AI in a Ruger#1 being built, and that one is going to be a super long range rig, without going to the big magnums.
I bought one of the more inexpensive AR-10's in 6½ CM, and it shoots very well in that platform, handily outshooting both of the .308's I have, including one with a bull barrel.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,461
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,461 |
I still don`t have one....but got a lot of 250AI brass with that headstamp! Shoots great! Think I`m getting some mo-jo off it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,823
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,823 |
I still don`t have one....but got a lot of 250AI brass with that headstamp! Shoots great! Think I`m getting some mo-jo off it. I bet it is better brass than what you typically get headstamped 250 savage.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
Speaking of the 6.5 CM, I have to agree with Adamjp that "there are equally effective products for those who choose to use them" at least for normal hunting and shooting ranges. My 6.5-06AI will do everything the 6.5CM will do downrange, regardless of range, and then some - but it is a custom rifle. So will other 6.5 cartridges, a .270 or .280 or 7mm RM and others. My .257 Roberts with +P loads comes pretty close.
For the average shooter, though, the 6.5 CM is rather unique - it is very well supported by firearms and ammo manufacturers, both firearms and ammo are easily affordable for most people and it was designed from the outset to be used with long, high B.C bullets for long range work. If I didn't already have a .257 Roberts and 6.5-06AI, a 6.5 CM would be in my safe.
It is a reality of life that some people can't stand the success of others or things that become popular. The 6.5CM did not become as popular as it has because of marketing, it became popular because it delivers excellent performance at extended ranges at an affordable price point - with low recoil. Midwayusa.com lists 50 ammo products for the 6.5CM, 19 for the .260 Rem, 17 for the 6.5x55 Swedish, 11 for the 6.5 Grendel, 8 for the 6.5-284 Norma and .264 Win Mag and it goes down from there. Anyone that wants to can get a 6.5 CM rifle for about $300. While I'm not a fad follower, I do respect things that work - and the 6.5 CM works.
Hornady marketed the product? Big whoop! I say "Good for them". They introduced a new product, let the world know about it and shooting enthusiasts and hunters around the world liked what the 6.5 CM provided. As others have pointed out, the 6.5 CM is now a standard cartridge and one against which, like the .30-06, others are judged.
Low recoil and great ballistics - what's not to like?
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,461
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,461 |
Mathman...some slight humor up there. As for as quality of brass goes, I`ve formed most everything available, including Lapua 22-250 which I first formed to 6XC.
All have worked to my satisfaction, and there really is something to be said about inherent accuracy. This is my third rifle so chambered, all very accurate.
The 6.5 brass is plentifull, and shoots excellent when being formed. In fact, this fall I`d loaded some 117gn. Hornady for deer, full power, in die-formed cases. Didn`t get a shot tho.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,386
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,386 |
At some point in our shooting and reloading careers we get practical. You cant get more practical than a 6.5 Creedmoor. Even if you don't live and breath rifles and reloading like most of us do its not hard to recognize the availability of reasonably priced accurate ammunition and rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor. Doesn't matter if your aware of how well it fits in a short action with 140 grain bullets or that its twisted correctly to take advantage of todays high performance bullets. With very little knowledge you can walk into the local gun shop and leave with a affordable new rifle and a few boxes of quality factory ammo that will shoot good groups. Your average Joe talking to his buddies about how well his new Creedmoor shoots with the ammo he bought at Wal Mart is all the marketing hype a cartridge needs. I like to reload and shoot wildcat cartridges but its nice to be lazy and just buy some factory ammo and spend an afternoon shooting small groups sometimes
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364 |
Ok, I’ll bite. How do the CMs feed from the magazine ?
That .462” diameter shoulder has me pondering that aspect of their performance. Fine Anyone care to elaborate ? Yes, it feeds FINE, hence fine. Not sure how much more elaborate I can get. Platform? factory / rebarell? magazine configuration ? Does it feed as FINE as your 250 AI ? I have a couple of 308 SAs that might be candidates for rebarelling. My last dalliance with 6.5 caliber was a surplus Swede three decades ago. Not great accuracy, but a reliable shooter. I have since learned from MDs patient postings on the subject, that throating varies lots in the Swede. No offence intended, or implied.
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
Just curious - when are people going to learn to spell Creedmoor?
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Ok, I’ll bite. How do the CMs feed from the magazine ?
That .462” diameter shoulder has me pondering that aspect of their performance. Fine Anyone care to elaborate ? Yes, it feeds FINE, hence fine. Not sure how much more elaborate I can get. Platform? factory / rebarell? magazine configuration ? Does it feed as FINE as your 250 AI ? I have a couple of 308 SAs that might be candidates for rebarelling. My last dalliance with 6.5 caliber was a surplus Swede three decades ago. Not great accuracy, but a reliable shooter. I have since learned from MDs patient postings on the subject, that throating varies lots in the Swede. No offence intended, or implied. They either feed fine or sheity. You didn't ask platform in your post, you asked how they feed. Fine in a Ruger 77, RAR AI, Remington 700.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,024
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,024 |
Very fine, or only somewhat fine?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,717
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,717 |
I confess: I tried the kool aid....I bought one....and shot it....and sold it yesterday. And, yes, there is a 270 in the safe....and a 30-06......and I'm not sorry I sold it....hey, I even got all my money back! Today, I am happy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
What did you buy? How was it scoped? What did you shoot through it? What did you shoot it at?................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,074
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,074 |
What did you buy? How was it scoped? What did you shoot through it? What did you shoot it at?................ Please share with the class your exploits using same in the game fields. Bonus points for picture. Remember this is the LR forum so choose your fantasy wisely and staged pictures of never been fielded rifles probably will bring derision and laughter. Just Sayin.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
John Squirms,
Your WELL founded Insecurities are MOOT...when I'm driving. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Bless your heart.
Laughing!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,074
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,074 |
John Squirms,
Your WELL founded Insecurities are MOOT...when I'm driving. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Bless your heart.
Laughing!..............
6.5mm CM picture are failing to load? Just Sayin.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
I doubt that.
HINT...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
John Squirms,
Your WELL founded Insecurities are MOOT...when I'm driving. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Bless your heart.
Laughing!..............
6.5mm CM picture are failing to load? Just Sayin. She’s been fishing a lot. She can drive right to the fishy hole. LOL. Only way his gear gets wear is rust and PTG battle worn bottoms. 😂
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
Hey!!!! We're lippy and she's getting our minds right!!!! Laffin
They're fuucking fish!!!! Laffin
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506 |
What did you buy? How was it scoped? What did you shoot through it? What did you shoot it at?................ Please share with the class your exploits using same in the game fields. Bonus points for picture. Remember this is the LR forum so choose your fantasy wisely and staged pictures of never been fielded rifles probably will bring derision and laughter. Just Sayin. A Creedmoor thread coming back to life is like an old Penthouse being found in a closet and getting passed around again and again and again...😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
With sticky pages from another stupid Alaskan....
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
Ooooopsie!.............. ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/8uuBcX.jpg)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
Eeeeeew, so very impressive......
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
The lying cuunt, you are the only one privy to such wares..... Haha
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
Ooooopsie!............... ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/PXJ5JL.jpg)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
Oooooh you spike killing sumbitch..... Grin
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
Oooooopsie!............. ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/537/0X80gH.jpg)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
That will kill a red haired July spike!!!!! Seriously
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
Ooooopsie!.............. ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/673/jkKvUL.jpg)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
Ooooopsie!................. ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/540/xYpCiq.jpg)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
Eeeeeeeewwwww very impressive...... Spotlight riggin?
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
Ooooopsie!............... ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/AHw4YA.jpg)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
You world wide traveller you!!!! Haha
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
Ooooooopsie!............... ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/2KlLJy.jpg)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
Skunk cabbage..... You poor dummy.... Haha
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
Ooooopsie!............ ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/SafPIa.jpg)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
So when do you apply the dumb muzzle tape???? Lots pics without it.... Can you decide when\when not too??? Laffin
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
Oooooopsie!............. ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/QreTnn.jpg)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
Oooooopsie.... Even you don't know!!!.... Haha
Fuuuuck your a donkey...
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,728
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,728 |
I have always wondered if the 260 Rem would have taken off at all if not for that article in Field & Stream 25 years ago?
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,484
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,484 |
I have always wondered if the 260 Rem would have taken off at all if not for that article in Field & Stream 25 years ago? What article would thst be?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097 |
I have always wondered if the 260 Rem would have taken off at all if not for that article in Field & Stream 25 years ago? Maybe with 3" box and 8 twist... But neither happened... Add top grade ammo at reasonable price, etc. etc. As posted earlier, the CM success was the "whole package"... DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,823
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,823 |
I have always wondered if the 260 Rem would have taken off at all if not for that article in Field & Stream 25 years ago? Maybe with 3" box and 8 twist... But neither happened... Add top grade ammo at reasonable price, etc. etc. As posted earlier, the CM success was the "whole package"... DF Oh nooooo, it was all hype designed to appeal to flat brim cap wearers.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,097 |
I have always wondered if the 260 Rem would have taken off at all if not for that article in Field & Stream 25 years ago? Maybe with 3" box and 8 twist... But neither happened... Add top grade ammo at reasonable price, etc. etc. As posted earlier, the CM success was the "whole package"... DF Oh nooooo, it was all hype designed to appeal to flat brim cap wearers. Yep... DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364 |
Stick - nice pics, What’s the 411 on the BLR?
Looks like a lotta scope for a bush rifle, Or ...
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,995
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,995 |
I have one of the MRC campfire 260's with a 22" fluted 8 twist that I think SAS had them run. Works well once I tweaked the mag box a bit to get it to feed slick. The action is a bit heavy but it shoots well eith.140 vlds loaded out to around 2.95". Sometimes I think of selling it because I'm still more of a creedmoor fan but it's hard to let a 1/2 moa rifle go.
Last edited by Burleyboy; 02/05/19.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,392 |
Stick - nice pics, What’s the 411 on the BLR?
Looks like a lotta scope for a bush rifle, Or ... 6x MQ on EGW inclination. 10 Mils on the windshield,do nice thangs with 162's crowding 2600fpsfrom it's 20" spout(BLR's wear dismal primary and secondary extraction). It slaps THE schit outta 1000yd+ steel and is a Mind Fhuqk in general. I do LOVE Sleepers!..................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
560 members (007FJ, 1234, 10gaugemag, 12344mag, 16gage, 10Glocks, 54 invisible),
2,727
guests, and
1,355
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,460
Posts18,471,276
Members73,934
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member453.png)
