[quote=IZH27]I usually don’t follow or participate in the religion threads I occasionally read them and occasionally comment. I haven't read all of the posts on this thread so I will accept that you haven’t said that there is no God. It does seem that you take that position.
In your thinking, what would be necessary or acceptable as proof of one’s claim that there is a God?
IZH,
I'm not asking for proof, I think that's too high a standard for a discussion like this, I'm just asking for "good evidence", that meets reasonable standards, such as being logically valid and sound, independently verifiable, repeatable (when applicable), and comport to the natural world as we best know it. It wouldn't include threats (believe or burn forever), or circular reasoning (the bible is true because the bible says it's true), not be overly contorted, explainable by natural processes, not the "god of the gaps" i.e. we don't know, therefore god(s), and again, not commuting or resting upon any logical fallacies. In addition the definition must be one consistent with what we commonly think of when we use the word God, and cannot be based on "faith".
If there is a God is it not an assumption and presumptive to conclude that said God can be quantified and qualified in part or whole by human reason and method?
IZH,
This depends upon your definition of god(s).
If the definition of your god includes a home atop Mount Olympus, we've been there, and there is no home of gods there, so we've proven that myth is not literal truth. If your concept of God includes the solid firmament of Genesis 1:6, we've been to the moon, and none of the Apollo missions crashed into it.
In more general terms, does your god in any way interact with the real world, such as by answering prayers, or favoring his followers? If so, we should be able to test for that. If your god all knowing, all powerful, all kind, and are we of a perfect design? If so, what should that look like, and is that what we see, or do we see something more consistent with a natural explanation?
Antelope, not to muddy the waters but didn't the ancient desert fathers sitting under shade of the oak trees near the flocks watering holes and fresh grass have the exact same questions, comments, and thoughts?
i mean the ancient rabbi's were always questing about how best to know the mind of god.
but, alas at the end of the day as the sun went down, not even the wisest had a clue.
the question was there, but not the answer. all they could do was look around, and guage the well-being of their flock of sheep.
i'm assuming they owned herd dogs to help with the predators who walked about, but i don't know that. canaan dog? not sure.
at the end of the day, they retreat to their tents or abode, and prepare for another day under the sun.
all of their discussions got written down at some point in time, or at least some of the discussions did.
mostly they lived out in the open, under the stars, and sought to escape the heat of the mid-day sun.
Gus,
The oldest known ceremonial burial was performed around 100,000 years ago by Neanderthals, perhaps 90,000 years before modern humans had flocks and cultivated crops. So yea, we've been contemplating this for a long time.
The oldest known religious archaeological site, Göbekli Tepe, is perhaps 11,000 years old, with the oldest cites being only 8,000 years old, and the first agricultural based settlements around 10k years old, so yea, we've been contemplating the subject since before we could make beer, so for a few thousand years, those discussion lacked proper lubrication.
Gus,
Here's an interesting though on the subject from an ancient Greek, perhaps before 400 BCE:
These are important questions.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
God presents the evidence for His existence. He also issues an invitation. That invitation can be refused.
The excuse “but you failed to convince me” will not stand on judgment day. I would expect that God might even “roll the videotape” of your life and show you.
God rewards an honest seeker, but as you have heard, pride goeth before the fall.”
Simple....
If the evidence is so clear, lets hear you articulate it.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
God presents the evidence for His existence. He also issues an invitation. That invitation can be refused.
The excuse “but you failed to convince me” will not stand on judgment day. I would expect that God might even “roll the videotape” of your life and show you.
God rewards an honest seeker, but as you have heard, pride goeth before the fall.”
Simple....
If the evidence is so clear, lets hear you articulate it.
Nope, we covered this ground before and you remain unconvinced and reject evidence. Waste of time.
But, btw.... every knee will indeed bow .....some will bow out of respect and worship. Others will bow to judgment.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
If the unbelievers don't believe in the one true God and the Lord Jesus Christ, there is not much else that can be said in addition to the posts above. My advice for them is to live a great life here in the flesh 'cause the eternity won't be quite so pleasant.
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
If the unbelievers don't believe in the one true God and the Lord Jesus Christ, there is not much else that can be said in addition to the posts above. My advice for them is to live a great life here in the flesh 'cause the eternity won't be quite so pleasant.
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
No you can’t You really should keep your mouth closed on subjects you nothing about.....
Says the guy who has only faith, and no evidence.
And my faith will take me there your evidence will not. Period. I know I will not change your mind, not even trying because your mind is closed. As a matter of fact, I believe you are spiritually dead, there is nothing anyone can about that, not even yourself. Feel sorry for you.
If you really want to know the answer to that question then read the bible and get some good teaching from those who believe the bible is God's Living Word. Many have chosen not to believe that and have followed their own beliefs, even to the grave, which permanently separates them from God' love, mercy and grace.
The hardness of mans heart eventually takes over when they reject God and His Son Jesus, who is the only way to heaven. Many do not want to give up their beliefs for God's truth, because they would then have to give up their sinful habits and beliefs. Sin is the cause of all of man kinds pain and suffering.
Christians ae not perfect and they know it if they know God's Word, but they are saved when they repent and claim God's forgiveness. Please do that if you have not done it yet. We are here for a short time, but where we choose to spend eternity is our most important choice.
Matthew 7:13-14 New International Version (NIV) The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other the person to die ......
"When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, "I used everything you gave me."
If you really want to know the answer to that question then read the bible and get some good teaching from those who believe the bible is God's Living Word. Many have chosen not to believe that and have followed their own beliefs, even to the grave, which permanently separates them from God' love, mercy and grace.
The hardness of mans heart eventually takes over when they reject God and His Son Jesus, who is the only way to heaven. Many do not want to give up their beliefs for God's truth, because they would then have to give up their sinful habits and beliefs. Sin is the cause of all of man kinds pain and suffering.
Christians ae not perfect and they know it if they know God's Word, but they are saved when they repent and claim God's forgiveness. Please do that if you have not done it yet. We are here for a short time, but where we choose to spend eternity is our most important choice.
I read the Bible. That's when I became an Atheist.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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