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No tract won’t make it


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Originally Posted by kingston
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Originally Posted by Calvin
A new company like Tract would have to discount heavily to get me to take a chance. Way too many (known) choices out there.

I think what SWFA did is super cool. Build it good and affordable and keep it that way. I'll try something new at $260 a lot easier than $450 (or whatever). Chris F did the shooting world a solid, and keeps doing it.

Tract is fancy chit, with hype and catchy names....


You’re clearly not referring to the SS 2.5-10x32mm.

There is no Sister Mary Chris F. SWFA is a business not a charity.

The price has remained unchanged for years. And I damned well appreciate it. I couldn't care less about their 2.5-10x32. My hunter models would just have capped windage dials but they didn't listen. LOL

Last edited by MtnBoomer; 01/05/19.

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Unfortunate that if you want to make sure there is service and warranty well into the future you must stay with really large companies or ones with long term military contracts, other lines of business like cameras etc. I also enjoy high end audio and this last year companies that were legendary for 25 years went away - Classe and Thiel Audio. At least audio can be repaired if you can get the schematics- scopes and bino's would not be practical for repair. I really like Vortex but at their discount level's one wonders f they will be around in 20 years - I hope so. Even when a company is acquired sometimes their lifetime warranty does not go with it. I would take a Nikon lifetime warranty to the bank - if only they would up their glass to the quality they are capable of.

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Originally Posted by MadMooner
Your last sentence pretty well covers it. It’s a risk.

I bought a Toric 10x binocular. Glad I did. So far it’s been great, and after using next to a several that cost 2-4 x the money, I’d only trade it for any of those to put money in my pocket.

FWIW, I’ve bought fishing rods for the lifetime warranty and had the warranty it was sold with pulled. That company is still in business but my lifetime warranty is worthless.




So how about that Sage rod! Or any number of other brands... they have all mostly crapped on their own warranties.


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Originally Posted by kingston
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by kingston
Tract’s Toric binoculars are a bargain and their CS is fantastic.

In all honesty, the Toric UHD 30mm scope is the scope that should have been sent out for comment and review on the fire, not the entry level tactical-like scope featured in the storied threads of a few years ago.

For me, the Toric UHD 30mm scopes are offered with reticles and at a price point that hasn’t compelled me to try one. That said, if polled, I rate Tract’s Japanese manufactured rifle scopes highly in terms of quality and value and higher than anything offered by Nikon. Ultimately, Tract’s rifle scopes lack features and/or qualities that really set them apart in an already crowded marketplace. It’s my opinion there’s one segment of the telescopic rifle sight market ripe with opportunity.

For the last decade, the industry has convinced itself the best way to market differentiation is through integrating evermore mechanical and electromechanical gadgetry into rifle scopes. This was frequently done at the expense of qualities fundamental to the device’s principal function. Qualities like maintaining zero, ease and consistency of adjustment, optical clarity, and mechanical durability were over shadowed by CDS turrets, illumination, and complex tactical looking reticles. While these features have value, it shouldn’t be despite the device’s principal function.

Following an era of big name brand consolidation, market expansion by newcomers and flashy marketing department driven design, the industry’s bedrocks of consumer confidence lay fractured. What’s missing is a line of scopes prioritizing robustness of the riflescope’s most basic functions. One thing seldom, if ever, mentioned in these discussions is the value of confidence. The user’s confidence in their equipment and particularly in their telescopic rifle sight, is almost paramount.

In the hunting scope market and maybe with the exception of NF, no one has demonstrated or even stated it as their goal to build extraordinarily robust rifle scopes for the hunter. Currently, there’s no one who’s principal mission is to build hunting scopes prioritizing maintaining zero, ease and consistency of adjustment, optical clarity, and mechanical durability above all else.

I’d argue this can be done at a widely accessible price point. The long term vision and commitment required to seize this kind of opportunity will likely come from one of the newer players.

NF SHV, SWFA, and the Bushnell LRHS all shared that objective.


In this context, I’d classify the NF SHV, SWFA SS and LRHS as tactical inspired hunting scopes. The exception would be lower power variables with capped turrets from the SHV and NSX lines. I’d also argue that these few exceptions are on the margins of NF’s core focus—that being feature rich, ultra high quality, tactical scopes at accelerated price points. I’m talking about a more bare bones scope to replace scopes like the VX3\VXIII that were once a ubiquitous symbol of confidence and quality.

This


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Originally Posted by kingston
Originally Posted by Pappy348
Hard to say. Companies come and go it seems at an alarming rate these days. I suppose it depends on how well they're financed.

I bought a Tekoa 3-12 during a 30% discount offer. It's a very nice scope, has been mounted on several rifles, and performed well on all of them. Its form-factor could use a bit of tweaking, IMHO, as a hunting scope, especially as to the height of the turrets, which are a bit tall for a non-dialer. Hard to identify exactly why, but when I replaced it on my Fieldcraft with a VX5-HD 2-10, the rifle became noticeably handier, even though the weight difference is only a few ounces. The same was true when I replaced it with a Hawke 3-9 on my Hawkeye AW .223. Not sure where it's going next, possibly on my Hawkeye Predator .308, which would give it a bit more recoil to withstand. The T-plex is a great hunting reticle, BTW.

I'm keeping my eye on them and if they come out with something that meets a need, I'll consider it along with the others.


That particular scope has a rather large ocular housing, forcing it to be mounted needlessly high on a hunting rifle like the BFC.


Actually, both scopes are 42mm and mounted just fine with Talley lows.


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Thanks for the great discussion. I guess I knew asking the question there was no definitive answer, but the consensus is similar to my guess. I really do hope they make it. It take guts and determination for sure.

I was drawn to the 30mm UHD for the consistent positive feedback on its glass being far above its price point. However, it comes with trade-offs and that is now my decision to think over. I do appreciate the reminder that this price point is pretty full with good options and there isn't much in dollars between many solid choices that already have a proven track record.

guyotrd, I used to be more into high end audio. That is surprising and a shame about Classe and Theil.

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It's always a crapshoot. Companies merge and go under. Warranties get dumped either way. Lifetime, no-questions-asked warranties are great sales points, but can drag a company down, even if they make good stuff. According to Leupold, the vast majority of returned scopes are not defective. Just imagine the costs of handling all those, plus fixing or replacing the broke ones (I don't really think their numbers on returns are correct, I think their testing of returns is "spotty", based on reports here and elsewhere of bad scopes being sent home still defective).

I think the best way to get a reliable scope is to pay for it up front, not rely on a warranty. NF, S&B, maybe a couple others. Pay once, cry once. Can't afford that for all my rifles, but eventually hope to have one or two like that.


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Originally Posted by Pappy348
Originally Posted by kingston
Originally Posted by Pappy348
Hard to say. Companies come and go it seems at an alarming rate these days. I suppose it depends on how well they're financed.

I bought a Tekoa 3-12 during a 30% discount offer. It's a very nice scope, has been mounted on several rifles, and performed well on all of them. Its form-factor could use a bit of tweaking, IMHO, as a hunting scope, especially as to the height of the turrets, which are a bit tall for a non-dialer. Hard to identify exactly why, but when I replaced it on my Fieldcraft with a VX5-HD 2-10, the rifle became noticeably handier, even though the weight difference is only a few ounces. The same was true when I replaced it with a Hawke 3-9 on my Hawkeye AW .223. Not sure where it's going next, possibly on my Hawkeye Predator .308, which would give it a bit more recoil to withstand. The T-plex is a great hunting reticle, BTW.

I'm keeping my eye on them and if they come out with something that meets a need, I'll consider it along with the others.


That particular scope has a rather large ocular housing, forcing it to be mounted needlessly high on a hunting rifle like the BFC.


Actually, both scopes are 42mm and mounted just fine with Talley lows.



I couldn’t get the one I have in Lows on my CLR-NULA.


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Originally Posted by Pappy348

I think the best way to get a reliable scope is to pay for it up front, not rely on a warranty. NF, S&B, maybe a couple others. Pay once, cry once. Can't afford that for all my rifles, but eventually hope to have one or two like that.

There are scope options like that at almost every price point.

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Warranties are only pieces of paper that some are worth more than others, but still paper. Reputation of a particular company is a better litmus test than warranty. The truth is simply: nothing will last forever, everything will eventually wear out or break.

Everything I buy, I hope will last forever and try to find what company will come closest to meeting that expectation. If it fails and I need to send it in, I will. If warranty is still good, great, if not, pay the price or throw it out...


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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by Pappy348

I think the best way to get a reliable scope is to pay for it up front, not rely on a warranty. NF, S&B, maybe a couple others. Pay once, cry once. Can't afford that for all my rifles, but eventually hope to have one or two like that.

There are scope options like that at almost every price point.


Maybe, but tall turrets, limited eye-relief, and reticles unsuitable for my hunting, winnows the choices down for me.


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I took the plunge and got a Tract Toric 3-15x42.

Like others, I've been concerned about the long term viability of the company. However, I had a couple or three conversations with the owners and found them exceptionally accessible and responsive, providing detailed info on their scopes as well as their business model, and scope manufacturing and marketing in general. Short version is that large retailers put great pressure on manufacturers to hold to a price point. Since consumers tend to focus on optical quality, guess where corners are cut first? Mechanical quality, the stuff you can't see. Tract's plan is to avoid pressure from the middle of the chain by direct marketing. Made in Japan provides a degree of comfort, as does the fact that the two owners, Jon and Jon, have many years of experience in the optics business.

I decided to take a chance. Time will tell.

Paul


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You guys do realize that sometimes it's not about the product a company produces, right? Things are different today than they were 75 years ago when passion drove people to strive for perfection in products that met real world needs.

Today, it's more fashionable to leverage money than build bobble head dolls. Sometimes a start up is intended to capture a certain % of market share, or reach a particular benchmark of production, only to be sold to a conglomerate of investors that couldn't care less about scopes or trinkets. The investors ride the horse into the ground and we end up with crappy scopes or guns and talking about it on internet forums ad infinitum.

The trick is identifying which you're dealing with.


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Originally Posted by Fireball2
You guys do realize that sometimes it's not about the product a company produces, right? Things are different today than they were 75 years ago when passion drove people to strive for perfection in products that met real world needs.

Today, it's more fashionable to leverage money than build bobble head dolls. Sometimes a start up is intended to capture a certain % of market share, or reach a particular benchmark of production, only to be sold to a conglomerate of investors that couldn't care less about scopes or trinkets. The investors ride the horse into the ground and we end up with crappy scopes or guns and talking about it on internet forums ad infinitum.

The trick is identifying which you're dealing with.


And sometimes the company isn't sold, but taken over by the next generation and the same thing happens. When the brand was previously a long time quality optics provider, much butt hurt ensues....

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I hope they make. all the reviews seem very positive.
But I am waiting. 2 reasons.
1- I feel bad that I recommended a pair of zen rays to a friend of mine and now he is SOL in the future. I haven't told him Zen ray is out of business. I am dreading that day. So I am waiting to see if Tract is around little longer.
2- I want a smaller pair of binocs or scope. I want either an 8x30 or 32 maybe 10x30 or 32. With scopes same thing. Everyone wants long distance scopes. I have some plinkers that I like 1-6 or similar. I don't need 12 or 16X at hundred yards.


All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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I purchased a Tori’s 3X15X50, the optics are outstanding and a real bargain at its price point. They are very good scopes.



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Originally Posted by jwp475

I purchased a Tori’s 3X15X50, the optics are outstanding and a real bargain at its price point. They are very good scopes.


And when it no longer works, whatever the reason, get something else, it really isn't that big a deal...


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Originally Posted by shrapnel
Originally Posted by jwp475

I purchased a Tori’s 3X15X50, the optics are outstanding and a real bargain at its price point. They are very good scopes.


And when it no longer works, whatever the reason, get something else, it really isn't that big a deal...


Yup. People toss computers, cell phones, and big honkin' televisions for little or no reason all the time without a whimper. Same with high-dollar compound bows; gone at a huge loss when something sexier appears. Scopes are durable goods compared with any of those.

Having one fail on an expensive hunt would be bad, but a feller oughta have a backup plan for that scenario.


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Originally Posted by Dre
I don't need 12 or 16X at hundred yards.

Same here. Also the same w all of these long range reticles. There are several makes/models scopes I am interested in but the reticles offered in these scopes kills them for me.

For the areas we deer/coyote hunt a simple duplex or a BDC w hash marks is plenty as we rarely have fields over 1/4 mile wide and most shots are within 300 yards.

Last edited by 10gaugemag; 01/06/19.

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