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they tell me are from France. The surrender monkeys used them very little, and they were only dropped once.

LOL.

However, consider the Chauchat. Not exactly a triumph of engineering.

Those who consider the French soldiers in WWI or WWII to be cowards appear to know very little about the actual events of those horrific conflicts.

The French troops resisted Von Moltke's drive into their country with the utmost valour and died while refusing to surrender or retreat; they were badly led and poorly equipped, but, they were NOT cowards.

When "Hurrican Heintz" Guderian's Panzers drove through Belgium and into France, the FRENCH armoured units BEAT them, until sheer weight of numbers plus Luftwaffe attacks turned the tide. This was openly admitted by Gen. Otto Von Stulpnagel, hardly an impartial observer.

At Dunquerque, when the B.E.F. finally evacuated, it was FRENCH soldiers who stood firm to prevent the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler and other Nazi scum from attacking the rear of the British retreat; this saved hundreds of British lives while costing many French ones. They COULD have surrendered and left the British to face the Nazi onslaught alone, they did not.

In Korea, where a number of personal friends of mine fought, the Canadian troops had the greatest respect for the Gurkhas and then the French who were courageous, friendly and generous. This has been told to me by several combat veterans from the P.P.C.L.I. and the R.C.R. who actually were there.

BTW, I have NO French ancestry, my people have been fighting the French for over a 1000 years and I do not speak "La Joual" and hate "Separatistes"; BUT, the French get a bum rap about their soldiers all too often and it is definitely not deserved. Their "leaders" are something else, but, ours are no screamin' hell, either.

Kutenay. You seem to know a lot of history and I certainly am not going to dispute anything you have said in the above post, however, I'm going to post the following just for the humour(this was circulating around back when there was a lot of anti French sentiment because the U.S, felt France was not supporting their war efforts enough) :

"France has neither winter nor summer nor morals.
Apart from these drawbacks it is a fine country. France has usually
been governed by prostitutes."

--Mark Twain

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"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French
one behind me."

--General George S. Patton

------------------------------

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your
accordion."


--Norman Schwartzkopf

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"We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it."

--Marge Simpson

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"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure."

--Jacques Chirac, President of France

"As far as France is concerned, you're right."

--Rush Limbaugh

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"The only time France wants us to go to war is when the German Army is sitting in Paris sipping coffee."

--Regis Philbin

--------------------- ---------

"You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of
the 1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have
the face for it."

-- John McCain , U.S. Senator from Arizona

------------------------------

"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into
Paris under a German flag."

--David Letterman

-----------------------------

"Only thing worse than a Frenchman is a Frenchman who lives in
Canada.

--Ted Nugent

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"War without France would be like ... World War II."

--Unknown

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"The favorite bumper sticker in Washington D.C. right now is one that says 'First Iraq, then France.'"

--Tom Brokaw

------------- -----------------

"What do you expect from a culture and a nation that exerted more of its national will fighting against DisneyWorld and Big Macs than the Nazis?"

--Dennis Miller
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"It is important to remember that the French have always been there when they needed us."

--Alan Kent

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"They've taken their own precautions against al-Qa'ida. To prepare for an attack, each Frenchman is urged to keep duct tape, a white flag, and a three-day supply of mistresses in the house."

--Argus Hamilton

------------------- -----------

"Somebody was telling me about the French Army rifle that was being advertised on eBay the other day -- the description was, 'Never shot.Dropped once.'"

--Rep. Roy Blunt, MO

-----------------------------

"The French will only agree to go to war when we've proven we've found truffles in Iraq "

--Dennis Miller

------------------------------

Q. What did the mayor of Paris say to the German Army as they entered the city in WWII?

A. Table for 100,000 m'sieur?

-----------------------------

"Do you know how many Frenchmen it takes to defend Paris ? It's not known, it's never been tried."

--Rep. R. Blount, MO
------------------------------

"Do you know it only took Germany three days to conquer France in
WWII? And that's because it was raining."

--John Xereas, Manager, DC Improv

------------------------------

The AP and UPI reported that the French Government announced after the London bombings that it has raised its terror alert level from Run to Hide. The only two higher levels in France are Surrender and Collaborate. The rise in the alert level was precipitated by a recent fire which destroyed France 's white flag factory, effectively disabling their military.

------------------------------

French Ban Fireworks at Euro Disney
AP), Paris, March 5, 2003

The French Government announced today that it is imposing a ban on the use of fireworks at Euro Disney. The decision comes the day after a nightly fireworks display at the park, located just 30 miles outside of Paris, caused the soldiers at a nearby French Army garrison to surrender to a group of Czech tourists.

The last two are as funny as it gets.

The FRENCH lost more soldiers in WWI than any other combatant in that stupid, tragic slaughter. The single worst battle in terms of combat deaths was Verdun, the DEFENCE of Paris, where OVER 600,000 soldiers died; this was even worse than our losses at either The Somme or Passchendaele.

For an American, of all people, such as this Blount character from Missouri, (something about "mules"???), to make comments like that about the French is just bizarre. One of the Yank's major boasting points is "Yorktown" where General the Marquess Cornwallis finally surrendered due to illness and starvation among his troops AND the effects of the FRENCH naval attacks upon his position, so, given Lafayette as well, they really should refrain from this type of slander....but, again, they are mere politicians, what can one expect from a Pig, but a grunt, eh?

I knew about the French involvement in the revolutionary war(they even show some of it in 'The Patriot'). I think when a lot of those comments were made, the US was so POed at France for their stance on Iraq, it wouldn't have mattered what France had done in the past.

BTW, you seem to have a great deal of historical knowledge, at least when it comes to the military, a personal interest or formal education?

The Battle of Verdun IMHO was the watershed for France. The courage of the soldiers was beyond reproach. The good sense and courage of French generals and Governments have been extremely questionable. Marshal Henri Petain was the Commander at Verdun and I belive that nightmare was the main reason why he sought accomodation with the Germans in WWll. It is extremely interesting to note that the best soldiers living are defanged when there is a government full of pure cowards. We would do well to keep this in mind.

Haven't you figured it out yet? Kutenay knows EVERYTHING! To dispute this would be the epitome of futility.

I believe the German losses in the French campaign were over 40,000 dead, which sounds like it wasn't exactly a leisurely stroll to Paris.

And now:

The AP and UPI reported that the Democrat Congress announced after the minor trouble remaining in Iraq that it has raised its terror alert level from Run to Hide. The only two higher levels for Democrats are Surrender and Collaborate.

Fireplug

[quote=kutenay]The FRENCH lost more soldiers in WWI than any other combatant in that stupid, tragic slaughter. The single worst battle in terms of combat deaths was Verdun, the DEFENCE of Paris, where OVER 600,000 soldiers died; this was even worse than our losses at either The Somme or Passchendaele.


Have we forgotten 26 million Russians

8mmwapiti

Fireplugisback
Seems appropriate in the current political climate.

I think the 20 million plus was WWII:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

I think that France lost a lot of their luster and respect after the Vichy government. The French government certainly collaorated with the Nazis in the extermination of the French Jews. That the French military was extremely anti-semetic is certainly shown by the Dreyfuss affair, which had a large part in undermining the French army prior to WWI.

France was once a world power. They just haven't admitted that it is no longer the case.

France does what France wants, not what we want, and that's what really irritates us. They never been a good ally, always looking out for what was best for them. The French are subscribers to realpolitik, while Americans are still idealistic compared with Europeans.

And ultimately, it was just a bit of humor. You should see what they say about us.

Exactly.

On the topic of mil-surps... an acquaintance got a smokin' deal on a French MAS bolt rifle in 7.5x54mm this past weekend. Rifle was like new. Ammo is no problem... dies available from Lee... brass can be readily formed from 6.5x55mm and it takes .308 bullets. Power factor between .308 and .30-06... Rifle is heavy but appears to be very well made.