Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Important ? Yor rifle load or physical condition

What do you feel is the most important factor on a high elevation hunt out west? Over the years I have observed many hunters from out of state. They carry every type of rifle & load you could think off. Some you would not think off. Most all work when the bullet is placed properly. So what do you feel most challenging? Your physical condition or your rifle/ load?. I bring this up now way ahead of hunt time so hunters have the time to prepare. If your 5lbs over weight & in decent condition you might not have much problem. As over weight increases it seems to affect the hunter exponentially. 20lbs over & your asking for a very uncomfortable time if you come from a close to sea level elevation. . I've watched hunters that seemed in great shape throw their guts up & have extreme debilitating head aches from the thin air. As you can see I feel over weight to be far more of a problem than the rifle/load you select. Now is the time to start dropping those lb's so as to have an enjoyable hunt. It is upsetting to me to see some one who has spent considerable time & money on a hunt leave early because of extreme fatigue. Your thoughts.

I put your mental state ahead of the rest...…..then physical...…...rifle and load way down on the list...…..bob

A person's attitude (or "mental state" as Bob put it) is as important or more than physical condition. Lots of people come out west excited to shoot something, then get bogged down by the physical difficulties of it and the altitude, but also get discouraged when they don't see anything for a day, the wind blows like my sister, or they're stuck in a tent soaking wet and cold.

I see it all the time.

Success is a combination of a lot of things. Mental toughness, physical ability, abilities to glass, pack weight, camp, and a general knowledge on how to hunt and kill things. Being able to shoot certainly doesn’t hurt.

I'd agree with that assuming the person is in reasonably good shape. Hesp asked about high elevation hunts and those will kick your arse even if you're in good shape.

So yes, attitude is more important if you're in good shape but if you're out of shape, all the attitude in the world might not help.

Yep, being in piss-poor shape will not only drain you physically, but also mentally. It's hard to have fun or want to climb one more hill, if it hurts.

I've hunted "in shape" and "fat and out of shape" (my current condition). Walking a half mile to a ground blind in Middle Tennessee and sitting on your ass all morning is a better experience while "in shape". Much less walking up the side of some Godforsaken mountain after paying big money to do so.

I've never even hunted out west, but I've spent some days walking a lot through rough enough country in TN that I know the difference in my own physical conditioning.

To me, being "in shape" means my hunting clothes (and the rest of them) fit properly, I can actually breathe while bending over to tie my boots, I don't fret my pack nearly as much, feel as though I can mover around easier, and just more comfortable in general (ever see a really fat guy that looked like he moved well? Even in a pair of shorts and a T shirt?).

End result is, I'm more confident, mentally tougher, and am in more of a state of having my sh*t together when I'm in shape.

Right now, I need to lose 20 lbs. Or stick to that ground blind next year. Wonder if the deer would notice my truck parked next to it?

But having the right mental state of mind can keep you going if you want something bad enough, despite how bad it hurts.

It's all interconnected.

Like Tinyman, I see attitude, physical ability and other gear lead to an unsuccessful hunt way more than a rifle/load combo.

Got a buddy like some on here that is always trying to squeeze the last .0987” out of a 10 shot group but pays little attention to optics, boots, packs etc.

He’s hell on the bench, but pretty unsuccessful in the field.

Like Calvin said, it definitely doesn’t hurt to be able to shoot, but you’ve got to be able to find/get to them to shoot them.

there are a lot of guys that look like bad asses, good shape, good gear.....flat brim hat......had to throw that in...….that get discouraged easily...and quit....their heart isn't in it, mentally whipped.

get in decent shape, have good gear, keep a positive outlook, take what's thrown at you.....have a good hunt......bob

I am not over weight, but at 75 I am in relatively poor shape. Several physical limitations. I do have to ride a mule to get where I hunt and I am sure past the age of humping an elk out on my back.Not that I ever did. That being said, attitude is far more important, A person needs that to be able to push themselves to get the job done, I have seen fat guys, skinny guys, sickly guys and healthy guys, guys with prosthetic limbs, all get their elk. It's the whiners / complainers that have to stay in camp after two days that fall short.

As for firearms I can take just about any firearm legal for elk with proper load suitable for elk and go kill an elk with it assuming it hits where I point it and have seen a lot of guys kill elk with a lot of different loads.That part of it sure isn't rocket science.

I would say mental state is a big part. One can push thought. Physical limitations will take over. Depends on how many days for myself. Retired Military and I can still push thought, but now the physical limitations will take over after a couple of days. I have gotten to the point where when back three miles in the rough, do I really want to shoot this deer and have to drag it out? Helps if you have younger family or a guide that expects to give some deference to the "old man"

that's called rational thought process…….bob

Lots of interesting theory's put forth. Physical,& mental toughness sounds good. I've seen hunters come out a week before the hunt to condition themselves for the thin air. Problem is it takes your body a good month to produce enough extra red corpuscles to allow you to function reasonably & at least another month to get to full oxygen carrying capacity. . This does not take into consideration muscle strength. Mental toughness & determination sounds good but when you see a man down from severe a headache because of the thin air you get a different perspective. It doesn't happen to every one but does happen to some.Also some experience nausea. Makes me wounder why some & not others. . If you don't try you will never know what your limitations are. When you see a hunter drag him self out of a warm sleeping bag on a "COLD" early AM in the dark , them walk some distance to a hunt site , then back to camp in the dark,, then do it again & again for several days...That's determination. . Have seen hunters endure this for their whole allotted hunt time. Have seen others after 2 or 3 days just leave. Hunting can be tough especially elk on public land. I am not trying to discourage anyone just wish more hunters were more aware of what they can encounter. Fortunately for me I live here at an elevation of 7630. My ever day activity is at this elevation so I never have a problem & think nothing of it.

Could have taken most of my elk with a ,223 and all with a ,308. Have to put physical condition ahead of rifle choice.

Will turn 68 in March and those hills seem to get bigger every year. Last year was an exception as I had lost 25 pounds and uphill didn't bother me as much. Hope to lose another 25 again this year so I can just float up the hills on the wind.

I turned 79 this last August and live at about 6,400 feet elevation. I think that physical condition is much more important than rifles and ammo. Most people just don't put enough importance in physical condition.

And yes I got my elk in October.

Regards

Mental , physical, and ability.

Last year, in my 60s, my bull moose was just about my easiest yet. Maybe 5-600 yard pack and about 8 loads up to about 125# or so. Took all morning, but i did not let up!

And I thanked all three of the lads that carried every last load for me! I believe that is the first big game critter I did not take care of myself...

On the flip side, you can be as tough and as physically in shape as possible, but if your scope fogs, zero shifts, or you can’t see your crosshairs in low light when a shot presented itself, your outcome is the same as the wimp.

Or a straight up wound/miss because of wind or poor shooting.

Yep, but you cartridge/load won't cause any of those things to happen. Unless you get all teary-eyed waxing eloquent about your Creedmoor.....

Not even a question in my mind. I've spent my life in the mountains regularly. I can exert myself below 1k elevation and not even get winded, even after smoking nearly 3 decades. Physical condition IS THE THING. Gun gack isn't going to do any good if you can't get to where the animals are, or do what you need to do when you get there. I suppose if you're hunting from horses with a staff of people who will process the animal after you kill it, the gun/ammo would have a bit more bearing on success, but other than in that scenario, it is the ability of your body to do what needs to be done.

So you are saying that there is no benefit to a load with a high BC bullet over let’s say factory power points on a mountain hunt?

you said the outcome is the same as the wimp...….the difference is...…..the guy with the good outlook on things, kinda laughs.....then try's it all over again.

the wimp quits, packs his schit up goes home....and tells his buddys how everything was against him.

it goes without saying to have good equipment...…...bob

Agree with most that has been said regarding physical conditioning. I'll add that one of the goals of physical conditioning is teaching your brain and body to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. Most guys I've taken dont have the mental toughness the first year or two. Mountain hunting is hard - no other way to explain it. To build that mental toughness requires putting increasing strains on your body to simulate the demands of mountain hunting. Most guys on this thread take that for granted because they've BTDT. Newbies not so much. I've had folks not sleep because they couldn't get used to the thin air, to the point of panic. After you experience that a few times, and realize you'll live and gets better as the week drags on, is the mental toughness most here are outlining.

not really...….I am not a rifle looney....I find the bullet weight and style I want, try different brands...till I get the groups I want.....for me that's 3 in an 1"@ 100...or close to it...and go hunting......I don't reload.....and stay in a range I feel good at.

its worked on sheep, goat, bears.....on and on.

now if you TRULY are a long range shooter.....everything I said is out the door.....a lot of guys think they are.....few really are.....sencar shooter sp?.....that is a guy I would listen to, if I wanted to learn how to shoot real long range.....and a few others....bob

Shooting a good load is important but I've never had an elk walk away from a good hit with any bullet. I've killed a bunch of them using a 270 with plain Jane Speer Hot-cor bullets. There's no need to obsess over it. It's far easier to get that good hit if you're not gasping for air and if your knees aren't shaking from a climb. Get in shape and stay there.

I also agree with Calvin on the rifle/ballistic side of the equation. Part of the deal is to match your gear to conditions and that includes your rifle. Most cartridges are capable. But what if you only hunt in the timber, shots are less than 100 yards, and shots may be hard quartering? I prefer not to have a thin skinned bullet capable of expanding at 6-7-800 yards. Conversely if your hunting is spot/stalk or meadows and shots be extended with time to let an animal position for a broadside shot, a higher BC bullet is likely a better choice.

Same goes with rifles. I tend to carry something shortish for my timber hunting and 24" barreled for my meadow hunts. Bullets matching both situations.

Hunting elk in Idaho isn't choosing between timber and meadows. Almost any hunt can put you in both sometime during the day. While most shots are under 200 yds, there's always the chance of needing a longer one.

If we are truly talking actually hunting mountains. Alpine, bowls, ravines, etc then a 4-500 yard shot is not far. Most of the time getting closer is not an option and changing you vantage point you will loose sight of that animal.


Climb up high, tack up some vital sized balloons on even a moderately windy day. Take a high bc rifle and a low bc rifle and let your “hits” tell you what bullet you ethically want to use. The wind is crazy variable up high.

No bigger nightmare than a poorly hit animal on the mountain. Lots of animals lost from that as the energy it takes to look for an animal on steep slopes is rediculous.

A little of both. When I was younger, and in pretty darn good shape, having run some sub 3 hour marathons 10 years prior.....I was hunting with a rifle that a bit heavy. Hunting here, in my new home state, I put in a lot of miles in some fairly rough country. That heavy rifle became a burden, caused me to change my hunting methods and lessened the “fun factor”! I dropped my rifle weight about 3 pounds, and began to enjoy my style of hunting again. Today, 30 years later.....I would like to have a “much” lighter rifle. Of course, I need to get in much better shape also. memtb

No, I didn't say anything close to that. I was commenting on this part of your post: " .....if your scope fogs, zero shifts, or you can’t see your crosshairs in low light when a shot presented itself." Maybe I should have said "most of those things" but wind can cause a miss even with a high BC bullet.

I'm no mind reader but I think the OP is getting at the fact that we spend endless hours discussing things that in the big picture don't influence success as much as the things we don't talk about like being in shape and being mentally tough.

calvin........not arguing with you......but, walk out in the prairie with your balloons, and if you can hold on to them....start shooting.................i used to obsess over the bc..sd..different weights....different calibers...

i would look at the charts and obsess over an 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 drop...........but for me in my real world hunting ...made no difference..........i have killed quite a bit of stuff, i can honestly say...calibre and bc and sd...never really came into play.

i would consider myself average....like 98% of other hunters.........i think the truly long range guys are the other 2%.........killing an elk , deer...fill in the blank....at 5 or 6 hundred...doesn't make you a long range shooter.

doing that and more...over and over dose.......hunters are worse than fishermen, when it comes to telling the truth about how long the shot was.....bob

^This^ memtb

Nailed it...

Agreed.

Need more details on this sister though.

It ain't easy hunting elk at 9500 feet, after a 3 mile hike in from 7500, coming from 50' home elevation, at age 70. And after 8 years hunting off a 4 wheeler or snow machine at virtual sea level. I was only 5 lbs overweight, had done some leg-conditioning hiking prior, but no "getting in shape" workout. That was me in October. I didn't even bother getting a tag or packing a rifle. (Delayed too long for the left-over, and had broken extractor, actually - not that a single-shot or another rifle won't work).

Even harder for a mid -30's "kid" , 30 lbs overweight, virtually no exercise, living in mile-high Denver.. That was my son, whom I accompanied/"guided".

Never saw a cow, for which he had a tag. Smelled them, heard them, saw their tracks.... I did jump a fair bull out of his bed, while out "scouting" while the kid rested his blistered feet.

I warned him..... I'm guessing he's all done elk hunting, but we'll see. I, personally, have plans...that was a "scouting trip" - $1K worth in airfare, room rental etc. Next year might be about the same- I'll skip room rental, tho, and backpack in and camp if I go back up there. Good area (thick and steep!), plenty elk, virtually no hunters (there's a reason why!!!).

Might get lucky with a draw tag for the "easy" areas around my brother's place, though, in which case....ANOTHER F'G SCOUTING TRIP!

I do know where that old horse trail up last year's mountain is now (I killed a cow up there 10 years ago, on a day hunt from the cabin at trailhead, where we stayed again this year ) and about where I'll camp (screw that daily hike in, tho a nice warm cabin with shower is down-right decadent!). I might even go in a week early, camp at the creek where I leave the trail for a few days, hand clear the trail, (wilderness area), then pack my camp up. And maybe water.

Still working on water supply thoughts if no snow or rain up there, tho. Wasn't much this year.

If one is going "sport hunting", might as well make it interesting.... be a damned nice camping trip anyway. . .

My wife is a hiking fanatic. Maybe I'll take her along and see if that will cure her affliction. She can carry the rifle, but I'll keep the cartridges. I tend to piss her off on these things.

Funny that nobody has mentioned flexibility along with endurance. Being limber helps you avoid injuries if you stumble and fall, so stretching plays a HUGE in my pre-hunt preparation starting several months before Opening Day.


Okie John

What I have noticed in high-altitude public land units is that everyone will move pretty well and climb pretty high and go far on opening day. Everyone is excited for the hunt and will push themselves, and lots of elk are killed opening day.
The 2nd day is different. Sore knees and feet. A lot of hunters find that it takes them longer than expected to get to where they intend to hunt. IMO the 2nd day is toughest because elk have been pressured heavily the day before.
Having the ability to rally on the following days can open some opportunities.
Many locals will hunt only the weekend then may or may not return again.
Lotta camps will clear out mid-week. Most seasons start Saturday and Wed is always a big exodus.
It doesn't take elk too long to filter back once the pressure eases.
If you can recover and begin to move well again you can get into them (but moving well at altitude is tough in the 1st place). This might be where the mental part comes in.
In these high-altitude public land areas I very seldom see elk in the open, in daylight, after 1st rifle season. Getting near treeline usually assures that I will not see other hunters. The herds I encounter above treeline are pretty safe. I've never gotten within range of those. It has been very rare for me to ever have an opportunity to set up for a shot so the choice of rifle or load has mattered very little.
Where I consistently have success is in remote areas, in cover, and typically encounter elk within 100 yds. Most shots could be done with any rifle/load combination.

In younger days I competed in the Pikes Peak ascent or marathon 13 years. Back in those days I could move well at altitude, consistently saw elk, but seldom closed the deal. I am age 60 now and will climb some 14,000 ft peaks as is reasonably possible to condition for the season. I feel I am very fragile now though - if I overdo it and twist or sprain anything the recovery time will erase any benefit I would have otherwise gotten.

I learned in RVN that mental toughness and a positive attitude was the difference between warriors and cannon fodder. Lots of PT studs folded in the heat and strain of humping a load in the jungle while expecting to get whacked. I saw some normal folks suck it up and hack it. A few liked it and became warriors.

Learning to laugh while suffering works for many things. Hunting hard in the mountains for > than 3 continuous days is painful and only worth the effort for some. Good physical conditioning helps increase the fun factor more than will a .5 moa rifle.


mike r

Very true, but lots of us on 24 hr are 70+. Flexibility is long gone as is balance. If I didn't carry a trekking pole, I'd be on my butt several times a day.

As I originally stated most reasonable cal's with reasonable bullets will take elk when properly placed. The vast majority of deer & elk I have taken over the years has been under 200yds. Not to say longer shoots can present them selves. As some one who is 75 , still in great shape & been hunting since I was old sough to do so I appreciate an accurate rifle. When it comes to rifles open sights have saved my hunt a couple times in past years. Scopes can be damaged from falls in an instant.I see back up open sights as being prepared. . Have you ever been in the back country slipped & fell & bent your scope eye piece. I have . In my opinion wisdom says back up open sights are mandatory.
As far as staying in shape my every day activities seem to take care of that at the 7630 ' I live at. My point is make sure your rifle is sighted in with a proper bullet need for the intended game. That is "EASY". The hard part as I see it is being physically prepared. The mind is willing but the budy's lust for pizza, donuts , cake, ice cream , cheese, pepperoni & such can be over whelming for some. A strong mind set & a willingness to suffer to obtain any goal shows the charter of the individual. Am I perfect. Absolutely not. It's just that I have the good fortune to live at a high elevation to start with & a looooong way from the grocery store.

I agree with many of the posts above. It's the man, not the weapon and load that is doing the hunting. A good hunter who can do what is needed physically can kill elk with iron sighted guns and do it nearly every year.

In hunting it's 98% the man and 2% the gun.

I know a man personally who told me he was building a "long range rifle" and would not need to get far from his vehicle. And one year he made a long shot when I was with him. It was not "stupid long", but a bit over 700 yards...........UPHILL from the road.

I smiled and said, "OK, go get him" .

Now 700 yards is not even 1/2 mile. I thought he was going to have a heart attack hiking up to the elk carrying nothing but a butt pack and that huge 15 + pound rifle and scope. Then he was hit by the fact that a good bull will weight about 700 pound dressed out. And all that 700 pounds had to get down to the road. Many times you have to take them UP hill. He looked like he was dying, and I almost felt bad telling him he was lucky. It was not the usual mile or more, and NONE of it was uphill.

Well he did it, although we were finishing up by flash light on the last trip up and down with the back-boards. The shot was made around mid day.

That was his 1st and last elk.

He is quite lazy and will not get into shape, so hunting antelope on flatter ground is now what he likes to do. He shoots that rifle quite well from the bench, but so far I have seen him miss about 50% of the antelope he's fired at too.

szihn:

Does he use a range finder on the 'lope? And a decent rest?

Pre RFinvention days I accompanied a friend on a 'lope hunt in CO. He was a fair to middlin' competition shooter., but was shooting from a sitting position.

He badly overshot the first three bucks, several times each. On the third one, I could see his bullets hit. What he was guessing 500 yards was hardly over 200, I think.

Finally he took a shot waaaaay out there, and clipped the end of the buck's pecker off. 'Lope went over the hill a few yards and laid down but we didn't know that. In following up to look for blood, we jumped it at about 30 yards and he FINALLY had his tag punched.

I have since myself achieved a pecker shot on caribou, and then bought a rangefinder......

Good point!

I had pulled a hamstring in June, which wasn't quite back to normal yet. That didn't help! But stretching exercises prior to season probably would have.

The last day of season, I could feel a charlie horse coming on if we didn't ease off, so we hiked out a couple hours early taking it easy, with rests and water.

Hmmm. Never thought of it that way but I think you're right. Some of my best hunts have been about a week into the season.

Total slut, like the village bicycle.

I can hook you up if you want.

Hesp, you mentioned high altitude in your post and there is really not a lot of prep a guy can do that doesn't live at elevation to prepare for it. I work every day at 8200ish feet and I run with my cross country team most of the time and i can tell you that when you get above treeline it still hurts a bit for me and I have been at 8200 feet for 22 years. Folks that don't prepare aerobically or don't lift will struggle mightily. Altitude sickness is also an issue if you come from near sea level. If the elk are up and you get sick you have to go down and or suffer the consequences which could include death. My nephew and his buds are coming to Colorado to hunt and he asked what he should do to prepare. Three things in this order was my reply: get in the best aerobic shape of your life (of the three this will be the trip breaker for him if I had to pick) and start year in advance, buy the best hunting/hiking boots you can afford and break them in really well, best glass you can afford (scope, binoculars, and spotter.

When I was younger and hunting in Idaho, it seemed like the gun didn't matter much at all. I used guns "roughly" sighted in, and guns sighted in for different ammo than I was using, guns sighted in by a right-hander while I am a lefty. Ammo was a strange mix of my dad's handloads (usually on the mild side, and quite variable in accuracy) and cheap factory ammo (a blend of Rem CL, Win PP, and Federal) because of the split-up family situation.

I remember climbing several thousand vertical feet a day after mule deer in sheep country. I remember endless climbing up and down mountains. I remember endless walking. But the killing was all short ranges (15- 250yds), and the half-assed gun/load prep never mattered. When I moved to Montana when I got a bit older, the areas I ended up hunting were a mix between heavy, thick timber and huge open canyons. Shots came at short distances at times, but more often, we ended up having shots that were ridiculously long according to my younger self. A range finder became a necessity, as did avid handloading, as well as lots of practice well past the ranges I shot things when I was younger. I could definitely hunt again where shots were nearly always less than 200yds, but that requires a bit more hiking in and a bit more hauling out than the areas I hunt now. Still, I try to be in the best shape I can possibly be in, because most every hunt where nothing gets killed is still several miles of hiking wearing and carrying about 25 lbs of stuff, with a whole lot of up and down, and it's a whole lot more demanding when something ends up on the ground.

I feel bad for those road hunters I see every year. I may be one in the future. Hunting for me was never about killing. It is about testing myself against nature. If the test aspect was taken away, it would be a whole lot less fun. Which is why I still hunt elk. I can't quite imagine sitting in a stand, shooting a deer, and calling that hunting.

Yes las, he does use a range finder and about every other gizmo and gadget you can imagine.
The total "gear-queer" to the absolute max. bi-pod, mono-pod in the rear, spirit level on his super powerful Nite Force scope, tensioning sling, ranging cards, wind meter, smart phone and I may have missed about 4 things.

I joke and tell him the antelope will die of old age before he gets ready to fire.
All that stuff is OK if a man can use it all, but when you are out of shape, even the excitement of seeing a nice antelope buck gets him worked up. The antelope often see all the screwing around he's doing and start to move away, even if only slowly, but that trows him into a deeper rush.
Anyway, with all the gizmo-crap he has I have still seen him miss about 1/2 of the game he's fired at, and it's not because any of his gear is bad. It's because he doesn't train to shoot any any realistic way. 4 years ago I had the same tag he did, and we went out together. I told him to fire first. He did from prone (as always). The buck then ran and I dropped it with my Ruger #1 in 9.3X74R. Range was about 350 yards. He was pissed, but tried (to his credit) to hide it. He'd been "practicing" the day before from his bench at 500 yards and didn't put the scope turrets back to his usual 300 yards zero. So he turned up the number of clicks (dumb to do from 300 to 350) and didn't realize he was set at 500 when he started. He is not the only one I have seen do that by a long shot. I bet I have seen at least 15 hunters make that mistake with target scopes. But when the buck ran it hooked back around because it didn't know what was going on and when it slowed down I fired and hit it right through the point of the shoulder, dropping it on the spot. He is one of MANY hunters I have known that seem to think buying things will replace human skill.

I like the guy so I don't rain on his parade much, but he has not learned in about 15 year now. Gear can't replace skill.

He will never will do any exercise to get into better shape and he also will not shoot at from any position other then the bench rest. So he never gains any skill. His rifle and ammo shoot ragged hole groups (under 1/2 MOA) when he has the concrete bench under them, and the V bags front and rear, but all that gear, and nothing but bench shooting has crippled him as a rifleman. Being in poor shape means that getting 50 yards from a truck makes him pant like a dog in summer.

I tried to get him to shoot with me about 4 years ago, off hand. 10" target at 100 yards. He fired 2 shots, had 2 misses and he quit, set out his gear, and then proceeded to shoot good groups off the bench again.

Oh well..............he buys deer and antelope licenses, (no more elk) and he can do as he chooses. He does brings home venison some times. As long as he has LOTS of time, and can lay down with nothing blocking his bullets path, and the game doesn't ever see him screwing around, he can kill game.

Couple these faults with “over analyzing” several scenarios (too much internet hunting) and trying to be prepared for each on a single hunt. I knew a hunter, that was out of shape, with a somewhat heavy rifle, on his first self-guided elk hunt. He purchased the latest “Wiz-bang Super Rifle”, then proceeded to developed several different loads and bullets for different hunting scenarios. He would bring this multitude of cartridges on his hunt... on his person. He would then load the cartridge, that was best suited for the shot. I tried, desperately, to use logic on his proposed methods....unsuccessfully! He managed to find elk, and promptly “screwed-up” what should have been an easy kill. Several ridges, and many shots, later, another hunter watched this debacle, and finished off the wounded elk. Extremely embarrassed and disillusioned with elk hunting......to my knowledge, this was his last elk hunt! There are many ways to ruin a hunt....this may have been the most outrageous, I’ve witnessed! memtb

Very interesting discussion. I hear of hunters who show up, look fit as heck and can't make it past the first few days. As mentioned, crawling out of that bag day after day and going into rough country seems to be a good way to increase your odds.

It reminds me of a SEAL instructor talking about guys who'd show up for BUDS looking like they were carved out of granite but didn't have the mental toughness to stick it out. The contrast is the pudgy kid from rural America who wouldn't let anything beat him down.

I tend to think that by the time you reach a point in your life to go elk hunting, that mindset is already formed, you either have it or you don't. The exception being teenagers hunting with role models.

I think most elk I've killed have been in situations when my heart and lungs were heaving out of my chest. Learning to calm your heart rate and breathing down to pull that trigger has been key. Obviously, the better fitness you have, the easier that becomes.

My hunting buddy and I used to walk about 35 miles during 5-6 day elk hunt, without much success. We killed elk, just not as many as later when we got older and in worse physical shape - and slowed down. Most of my kills in recent years have come when I was hunting alone. While I spend a lot of time at the range working up hunting loads, the rifle and load I use on any particular hunt are determined more by fun factor than ballistics. I've hunted elk with a .44 Mag revolver, .44 Mag carbine, .257 Roberts, .280 Rem, 7mm RM, .30-30, multiple .30-06, .300WM, .338WM, .375 Win and .45-70. Only one shot taken last 411 yards and most of the rifles I've used are good to go at 411.

We hunt on foot and a primary consideration is the pack-out - we won't go further than we're comfortable getting an elk out. We have a cart but still often have to pack the meat out on our backs much of the way. I tell everyone that will listen that the fun stops when you pull the trigger. While that isn't strictly true, it is when the hard work starts. Hiking in and out with only your rifle and pack is the easy part.

Hunting buddy is diabetic and would never carry enough water or food in an attempt to lighten his pack. By day's end he was often drinking my water and eating my food. Twice he had to be sent home, once for hospitalization. Another time he was hallucinating when we got back to camp. Yet another he was puking due to over exertion when trying to cart his deer out by himself. I'm pretty convinced altitude played a part in some of those incidents.

I know there will come a time when I have to give up elk hunting altogether - hopefully at least 10 years down the road. That decision won't be at all impacted by my rifle load.

The most important factor on a high elevation hunt out west? Hunting where there is game! There's millions of Acres out here and plenty of them don't hold game. Between rifle and physical shape I would say physical shape is more important.

That's even more true with late season elk hunts. They bunch up for the winter leaving 99% of the range devoid of elk. If you find them you'll find lots of them but if you don't you get nothing but a nice hike in the woods.

I grew up/worked in the oilfields of SE, Tx. My first hunting out West was bowhunting in the Uncompahgre Plateau area. Not too bad, camp on top and hunt the drainages. We killed mule deer/cow elk, had a ball. In '82 I went with two Texaco co men to hunt the Holy Cross/White river Mnts (Minturn, CO) during late October, rifle season. It kicked my 29yr old, 70 feet above sea level nubile body, ha! My legs turned to rubber and my heart was beating somewhere up between my ears! My knees turned to fire coming down! I learned real quick that kind of country was not for me! I hear of folks out here even, in Utah, who die every season, trying to hunt where they just can't. I just turn my focus on places/ranches/times of the year when/where I "can" hunt. Even now as a soft, overweight, bolted together "Senior"...there are places I can get to. what I "will not do" and what I see every year, is some old phart who insists he 'can" do it, go with his younger son/relatives and ends up screwing "their" hunt up when he gets sick/hurt/lost/or dies from a heart attack. Selfishness and hubris gone amuck.! Simple fact is...as in all walks/endeavors of the short, short Life...some CAN, some CAN'T.
"A man should know his limitations"...lol

I don't go (hiking or on machine, if alone). that I can't hike out of. About 10-15 miles, depending. Now. I used to be dumber.... younger.... more fit... But I would do it again if I could.

I don't kill stuff I don't have a plan and surity to get out. (It ain't the "hunting" - it's the "getting chit out" that determines the parameters)

I'm not as tough (tho I'd like to be) as that 73 year old Eskimo guy I picked up a couple years back, 8 miles down the beach from town. His ATV had bogged down 40 miles out of Kotzebue 2 days before. He drank all my water, passed on the candy bars.

I'm just a few (many?) steps slower than I was at 35.... 35 years ago - and I was in great shape then.

That doesn't mean I'm any smarter.... . Slower hunting, not necessarily easier.

My mind lately ain't confabbing with the body. I listen to the body. Mostly.

I can kill with anything, regardless of caliber, that I am competent with, within reason.

My son, overweight, and 5K higher than me, was less able than I, not just to this, but as said, mentally. I KNOW I can hack that Co elk hunt, if somewhat slower than I was 30 years ago. Or 10 years ago, when I did take an elk there. He was worried about me getting altitude sickness which is not in my vocab! Tho I will fold like a house of cards if I experience it...

Old age and treachery.....

I suspect he doesn't have the mental attitude for another elk hunt, but we will see. And he better get in better physical condition if he does. Or find easier hunting.

We used to go snow skiing every spring, you will have a much better time if you are in some kind of shape. I made sure I could go on the stairstepper with it set on max for an hour. I could kick the cshit out of all the younger people in our group.

Lack of physical conditioning will ruin way more hunts than rifle choice.

This is the truth, mental state of mind got me through more than a few hard hunts out west.

I agree with both of these thoughts

Physical condition is far more important than load. I hunt some steep country and have been in great shape and out of shape. High BC bullets, who cares if you can't get back there and get your game out.

If you can't embrace the hardships, it doesn't matter how inshape you are or how good your load is.