Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters De-cocking and lowering hammers

I expect this has been addressed here on the ‘fire at some point, but I did a search, and did not find it. I also assume this it the best sub-forum to address.

Most guns with hammers have a mechanism(s) such that the hammer will be intercepted or otherwise not impact the primer should it slip off the sear. This same mechanism will usually intercept the hammer during de-cocking as long as your finger is not holding the trigger back as you let the hammer down. Once the hammer reaches this position what you do next depends on the particular gun. Some may require further action and some may not.

I could get into specific actions and guns, and there are many, both handguns and rifles. But I don’t think that is necessary. Further, I especially don’t want to get into a discussion of how various guns should be “correctly” carried.

My point is if you let the hammer down with your finger off the trigger the gun will probably not fire should you lose control of the hammer, but there is a good chance the gun will fire if you hold the trigger back and you lose control. Yet, it seems to me many people do not know or choose to take advantage of this feature. In fact, I have often seen advice to the contrary, similar to “after the hammer is down, you can now pull it back to half cock.”

Having said all that to put the questions into perspective:
Do you consciously and carefully remove your finger from the trigger as soon as possible when lowering a hammer?
If not, why not?

Best,
Gun Doc

Not here .I have been lowering hammers since the 50's on lever rifles, handguns,etc, before transfer bars were ever thought of. No problems. , Never an AD. Practice safe gun handling. Don't rely on mechanical gadgets

'Your question is not very clear . That said I consider it to be a very poor idea (dumb) to lower a hammer on a chambered round.

On winchester type actions all it would take is a blow on to hammer to cause the shell to fire. I don't know on the newer pistol lock works

but on the old type with a hammer mounted firing pin you also would get a discharge from a blow to the hammer .

I will let some of the real experts address it further.

Most if not all of my hammer shotguns and drillings don't have a half cock position just rebounding hammers.

It depends on the firearm design. Firearms that have a Hammer that hits a striker that hits the firing pin works like you mention. With the finger off the trigger and everything working properly the firearm "shouldn't " discharge. Firearms with a floating firing pin the hammer strikes will likely discharge.

Yes.

Yes. I release the trigger as soon as the hammer starts to move, so as to lower it onto half cock. I don't let it go all the way forward onto the striker.

I handle them all the same; only hold the trigger long enough to get the hammer to go down. After that, it depends on the design. If there's a half-cock notch I may use it, but not for "rough" carry where it might be struck. In that case, I'd lower it all the way on an empty chamber. Some designs have a firing pin that has to fly foward on its own after being struck, being too short to carry a direct blow from the hammer. Those should be safe in the down position, but I'd check to be sure. Browning 1885s have a half-cock, but also a design that makes it almost impossible to "lose the hammer" and get a ND. I think they have a short firing pin, but have to check the next time I get one out.

X 2, the simple, answer to a direct question AND the proper answer.

Jerry

Thanks for the reply, but I wasn't talking only about transfer bars, and I don't understand your comment about relying on mechanical gadgets. As for safe gun handling, I am asking about safe gun handling. Let me put the same question another way:
Assume you want to carry a 1950's lever action Winchester with a round chambered and the hammer at half cock. Do you lower to the half cock notch, or fully lower the hammer, then pull the hammer back to the half cock notch?

On some guns, if you let off the trigger, and allow the sear to catch the half cock notch,
you can get a partial engagement, that can bump off and/or cause damage.

The notches on the hammer are on a round surface,
as you pull the hammer back the sear falls in the hole.
As you let the hammer down, the camming action keeps the sear lifted as the notch rotates around.

Lower the hammer and then back up to the half cock. Always pull the trigger, lower the hammer and back up to half cock no matter what I am doing.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry my question is not clear to you.
There are plenty of hammer equipped guns where people routinely carry hammers at less than full cock over chambered rounds. Older lever action Winchesters are but one example. Those do not have an inertial firing pin, so you certainly don't want to carry the hammer fully down. You don't want to carry it at full cock. This leaves half cock. When you lower the hammer you first get control of the hammer, then trip the trigger. At this point you have a choice. You can keep the trigger depressed and fully lower the hammer, then pull it back to half cock. Or you can immediately remove your finger from the trigger and lower to half cock. If you do the first, should you lose control of the hammer, the gun may fire (depending on how far the hammer is down when you lose control.) If you do the second, should you lose control of the hammer, then the half cock notch should catch it.

A 1911 pattern pistol works the same way, but since these have an inertial firing pin, it is safe to carry the hammer fully down. That said, one still might choose to lower to half cock, then lower to fully down from half cock, where losing control of the hammer "likely" won't fire the gun. (The merits of a 1911 in Condition Two is a separate question, and everyone has an opinion. Even well respected 1911 experts do not agree.)

Most S&W revolvers are designed such that the at rest hammer sits on a piece called a hammer block. This is why one can carry a S&W with a fully loaded cylinder even though they don't have a Ruger like transfer bar. Should one want to lower a cocked hammer, you first get control of the hammer, then trip the trigger. If you then immediately remove your finger from the trigger, the hammer will come to rest on the hammer block. Should you lose control of the hammer, it will likely come down on the hammer block and the gun will not fire. But if you keep your finger on the trigger, then lose control of the hammer, a discharge is more likely.

I didn't really want to get into specific designs, but I did so in order to (hopefully) make the question easier to understand.

Do you consciously and carefully remove your finger from the trigger as soon as possible when lowering a hammer?
If not, why not?

Thanks for the reply.
True,lowering to half cock can result in partial engagement (although is shouldn't if things are as they should be.) But for arguement's sake, let's say it does result in partial engagement. Can't you then pull back on the hammer slightly to insure the half cock is properly engaged? As far as damage, that is unlikely if you carefully lower the hammer, even if to improper engagement. If you lose control of the hammer when lowering, yes you might damage the half cock. Would you rather risk this damage or a discharge?

[quote=GunDoc7

Thanks for the reply, but I wasn't talking only about transfer bars, and I don't understand your comment about relying on mechanical gadgets. As for safe gun handling, I am asking about safe gun handling. Let me put the same question another way:
Assume you want to carry a 1950's lever action Winchester with a round chambered and the hammer at half cock. Do you lower to the half cock notch, or fully lower the hammer, then pull the hammer back to the half cock notch?[/quote]

What Miles 58 said.Old Winchesters all the way down with trigger depressed. Ease the trigger off and the back to half cock. I can't think of a reason to have one on half cock let it off and put it back on. I was thinking more of cocking the hammer for a one reason or another and then wanting it back on half cock. Same with a lot of old hammer style single shot shotguns. Side lock muzzle loaders.My TC Hawkin does not have a 1/2 cock.So I keep a piece of heavy saddle leather on a leather thong and let the hammer down on the primer with the leather between.My old Colt (1906,I keep let the hammer down and the bring it back a bit so I can rotate the cylinder to the empty one.I don't take my finger of the trigger, it would not help on that handgun. Probably not clear how I stated it.

The damage isn't an arbitrary cosmetic type thing.
Your sear and engagement notches are in thin hard metal.
The actual engagment point is like a knife blade in a groove it cut in a fingernail.
The damage, is on this edge. You either lost width, or the actual square sharp edge.
That would leave you with a rounded edge.

Now you have a damn good chance of an unexpected BANG!

Every time I reload for my rolling block, I have to test if the hammer can lower on the new rounds. It always bothers me to do so. Part of the problem is the hammer spring is very stiff on this design. I cradle the gun so that I can support the hammer with fingers from both hands.

Place the thumb of your off hand under the hammer when you are letting it down. If your thumb slips the hammer may smack the other thumb but you won't have a discharge

This^^^^^1911 hammers go down like this. 😎

Thanks for the reply. I do understand the 1911 and other guns pretty well. Your description of the interface is sometimes true, but not always. Some 1911 hammers are designed such that the half cock notch is only in the center of the hammer. The outside edges of the sear (the portions that catch the hammer hooks on full cock), do not interact with the half cock. Thus they cannot be damaged as you describe. In fact, this design is often called a "sear protecting hammer." The trade off is the half cock notch is not as strong because it is not full width, but the full cock interfaces are protected. Other 1911's, usually "Series 80" with a trigger/firing pin interlock, don't have a half cock notch at all. Instead they have a "shelf" much lower down. Some call this "quarter cock." On these, if you pull the trigger at "quarter cock" the hammer will fall, but the fall is so short that a discharge is very unlikely.

Anyway, my point in my original question was to learn if people chose to lower their hammers such that the half cock (or other safety mechanism) could catch the hammer should they lose control, or instead trust that they wouldn't lose control, lower the hammer fully, and then return the hammer to half cock (or not, depending on what was appropriate for the particular gun.) The second method is more likely to result in an unintended discharge. In all cases I did assume, but did not state for the sake of brevity, that the person understood how to always make sure the half cock was correctly and fully engaged.

Obviously, from the discussion so far, people are of different opinions about this. Thanks again.