Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters How much is “Enough”?

There are a lot of them, books on hitting. Problem is people that believe shooting before season is just a waste of good ammo.
I personall know two guys this season that shot deer over bait at 65-70 yrds with their 06`s. Both found blood, but not the deer. What the he-- do you call that?

My experience is that an ounce of over-gunned is far worse. Have seen it many times, probably because my job has allowed me to observe many other hunters in action.

In "Just Enough Gun" I describe one of those other hunters, a guy from Lichtenstein who was one of the other hunters in camp on a multi-species horsepack hunt in northern British Columbia. He'd hunted with the outfitter before for Stone sheep using a rifle in 7x64 Brenneke, essentially a .280 Remington, taking his ram with one shot. But this time he was after caribou, elk and moose. He somehow believed a bigger gun was necessary for the elk and moose, so left the 7x64 at home and brought a brand-new .300 Winchester Magnum. His first 3-shot group at 100 yards from the camp benchrest measured around 18 inches, and while things improved slightly after that, he took over 20 shots to kill his caribou, elk and moose.

Quite a few hunters start to flinch at .300 magnum lever recoil. This is not just my experience but that of several outfitters and guides I've encountered. One is John Stuver of Broadus, Montana, who says about 20% of his mule deer hunters who show up with a .300 magnum can't consistently kill a buck at 200 yards. Often the .300 is new, like the Lichtenstein hunter's, because they somehow think the .243., 270 or .308 they usually hunt whitetails with back home isn't enough for mule deer in open country. Another long-time African PH I knew, Finn Aaagard, was a little more generous, saying 2/3 of clients who brought a .300 magnum didn't shoot their rifle well.

On that BC hunt I brought a .300 Winchester Magnum and a 9.3x62 Mauser. Killed my moose with one shot from the 9.3, and a 6x6 elk with one shot from the .300. (Never saw a caribou I wanted.) But since then all my elk have been shot with smaller cartridges, and they killed just as well, and another western Canadian moose taken with the 7x57 went about five more yards than the 9.3x62 bull.

Hunters should use whatever rifle they feel confident with, but my experience is that "confidence" in a larger, harder-kicking cartridge is often misplaced--especially when a hunter headed on his first Big Trip away from home takes the advice of his buddies, who often have never hunted elk or African plains game, but have heard about how tough they are.

I have yet to see a vast difference in how most big game cartridges kill such game, as long as the shot's put in the right place, both in North America and Africa, and with today's bullets angling shots aren't a problem either, or breaking shoulders. In fact, the longer I observe other hunters, the more I'm convinced most don't differentiate between shoulder and behind-the-shoulder shots when describing the effects of various cartridges, and tend to choose examples of shoulder shots when describing the terrific killing power of their favorite round.

I also know RinB very well, and wonder about the intent of his question, partly because I know he's killed considerable BIG game with the .270 Winchester.

I started this discussion to hear the various points of view. The responses mirror thoughts that I have had at different times in my “career”. Over the last few years my views have changed a lot. I have also had to review my own prejudices. Remember, a prejudice is but a thought that has gotten “hard” based on experience or knowledge or, dare I say, ignorance. We humans tend to defend our own point of view “just because”.

I have used a 270 with 130 bullets on a large number of critters with reputations for being tough. I have watched lots of guys use big 30’s and larger on the same animals. The single biggest variable was marksmanship. I used something that either helped me or at least didn’t hinder me.

I used to have a strong preference for monolithic bullets but that has changed. I still pick them for hunting African plains game because the conditions there favor full penetration (herd animals and hard ground and thick cover). Today I have proven to myself that lead core bullets are more likely to produce DRT.

I used to want lots of velocity but now I will “give up” some velocity for very high bc bullets. I used to want 3100 but today, with the right bullet, I am good with 2700. Humm...who wrote something about the magic of 2700?

Marksmanship (ie shot placement) rules all else if combined with a reasonably designed bullet. As a bonus, as muzzle velocities drop, more bullets meet the “reasonably designed” standard. Start a bullet slower and it performs better and if it has a very high bc, that better performance window is extended over a long range.

So the primary question is: does my combination of cartridge, rifle, and bullet help my marksmanship?

An observation made while smiling.

There are two times that the terms “energy” and “sectional density” come into the conversation. One, in this conversation. The other? Is a 223 large enough to kill a deer.

Put a suitable bullet in the right place… it expands, penetrates. And doesn’t kersplode. Animal dies.

Sectional density is meaningless. Energy same.

I thought the 6.5 Creedmoor solved that situation.

Do you think loonies ponder this question so we can convince ourselves we need to purchase another one?

I used to want lots of velocity but now I will “give up” some velocity for very high bc bullets. I used to want 3100 but today, with the right bullet, I am good with 2700. Humm...who wrote something about the magic of 2700?

So there is the book USE ENOUGH GUN. That phrase is usually interpreted as meaning “more is better” or “bigger is better”.

I have generally observed that there is a direct correlation between the distance travelled or the price of the trip and the size of the cartridge. Example: traveling to Africa the bwana needs a 300 RUM for the same game on which the locals use 243’s and 308’s.

Draw a desert sheep permit and the lucky hunter now “must have” a 26 Nosler rather than the 243AI which he has used to knock off many pronghorns and mule deer. It takes a big desert sheep to be as big as a mature mule deer.

At SCI and DSC and Wild Sheep there is a big demand for 28 Nosler’s and 300 PRC’s and 300 Ultra’s. These guys are not uninformed or dummies but the drive to get a bigger “enough” cartridge is substantial.

Your thoughts.

I'd rather have MORE than enuff than......

just not quite enuff, or almost enuff.


Jerry

Definition of looney: I purchased a 358 Norma Mag because I have no need for it and it was a great deal.

JG, you mean to tell me you CAN teach an old dog new tricks??

I'd rather have MORE than enuff than......

just not quite enuff, or almost enuff.

Two other thoughts:

1. Jeff Cooper said “load a handgun for power, load a rifle for accuracy “.

2. Even a 300 Savage is flat enough to 300 yards.