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You need to have “enough” stability in your shooting position, to create a rock-solid rest for your rifle, which will allow the rifle to perform the work it was designed to perform, regardless of the cartridge size.

Bad rifle rest stability brings out bad execution, regardless of cartridge size.

Is it “enough” cartridge or is it really, is it “enough” stability in your shooting position that leads to bullet placement success, regardless of cartridge size?


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The bad thing about using “enough” is that while searching for the one that’s enough....you will invariably find the one that’s “not enough”! memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

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I hunt and I guide.

As a hunter I have been up the 300Wby-8x68S road, and then down to the 6XC-6,5x57R-.270 and it is for a reason: I shoot better, and enjoy more, shooting smaller, lower recoiling cartridges.

As a guide I have never had a problem with a client shooting 243-270-30-06 class of cartridges, but have had a problem or two with a couple of guys' 300 Wbies, 300RUMs and once, a real nightmare with a client shooting a 30-378. I have also had extremely proficient shooters shooting this line of cartridges so I am not saying it is not possible, I am only saying it is more difficult and requires an amount of training that not everybody is ready to dedicate themselves to.

It is quite common to think that by buying the best gear you become the best sportsman, like if buying the best boots would be a substitute to physical fitness, or that a super gun would make it up for poor marksmanship, And it just ain´t true.

At the opposite end, like somebody mentioned here, occasionally you will ifnd the guy who will come with barely enough gun just to prove it can be done which, depending on what kind of hunt you are on, may not seem like a sound chance to take,

Interesting post and opinions, thank you RinB and thanks to the contributors too.

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I've seen enough lost game in the field by those shooting light rifles to know that either the rifles were inadequate or the hunter was an inadequate marksman, or maybe both since animals were lost. Anymore, I won't waste 10 minutes of time helping anyone track a wounded animal all over hell's half acre because they were too stupid to use adequate cartridges. Call me when you find it and I'll be happy to help get it out. Happy Trails


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Originally Posted by Angus1895
I own a 308 Norma mag in a light Springfield 1903 action. The bolt on recoil hits my hand so I can't get comfortable with it. It groups but it hurts.

I don't hunt with it because I am askeerd of it.

Don't hunt with a gun you are timid about.

But if you are green or inexperienced, follow common sense rules about sectional density in cup and core bullets, and velocity on impact with monolithics IMO



308 Norma Mag on an 03 Springfield was all the rage back in the day. Most 308 NM guns are just that. It's what the 300 Win Mag might have been.


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Well I'm sure even the OP isn't going back to the 30-30 and plain-jane bullets or chaining up the 1963 Impala, despite both being pretty successful and commonplace at one time.

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Originally Posted by chamois


....... I shoot better, and enjoy more, shooting smaller, lower recoiling cartridges. ......



I'm not recoil sensitive. That said, like chamois, I enjoy the lower recoiling rounds more. One of the MAJOR factors in my shooting the smaller/lower recoiling rounds it cost...it adds up quick (even reloading). No matter how well I can shoot a "big" gun, 10 practice rounds with it aren't the same as 100 with a smaller round. Of course there's carry over from shooting quantity with smaller rounds then switching to larger rounds but it's still a change. Trigger time matters.

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Originally Posted by John55
I believe the old saying went something like "Beware the man with one gun, etc". In the past 30 some years I've done the bulk of my hunting with a 300mag. Prior to that I tried about everything from the 243 clear thru the 375 H&H to hunt deer, elk, antelope and varmints.When I finally got around to getting a 300 Win mag things changed, it shot great and didn't belt me into tomorrow, and boy did it put things on the ground right now! About this time I started hunting a lot, and that 300 came along on virtually every trip. Killed my share of most everything on license and never once had a 300 in my hands and wished for something different. For me, it's proven to be the single best cartridge I've ever used and one I have the utmost confidence in. I never had to try it but my old buddy Allen Day even shot 2 cape buffalo with his 300 after his 458 developed problems while on safari. I used larger calibers on dangerous game where mandated by law or the stern advice from the outfitter but except for those species I've killed virtually everything with the 300s. Many deer, elk and antelope have fallen to smaller calibers as well, in particular the 270, but when the chips are down or the big money has been spent on a far away hunt, there's no question which rifle I'll reach for. I don't care if others want to shoot 30/06s or 270s or any other cartridge, they all work in the right hands. I just never bonded with any of them like I did with the 300.

A "WINNER POST" from someone who's been there and done that. FACT.


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The 30-06 is "Enough".


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WAM,

In the context of this thread, your post would be far more informative if you'd list some of the inadequate cartridge/game disasters you mention.


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"Enough" in one man's hands may not be enough in another's. Headstamps and BC's don't kill, shot placement does.


I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
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Let's here some stories of lost game shot with "not enough", that wasn't because they were hit in the wrong spot or that the wrong bullet was used.

My guess is there aren't many stories like this.

I've shot my share of larger guns, but these days I'm happiest with a 7-08, 7X57 or .308.

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I find two bookends set the boundaries for me, on any hunt and with any person:

The largest possible gun is that with which one is COMFORTABLE shooting.
The smallest possible gun is that with which one is CONFIDENT in killing power.

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Originally Posted by CWT
The 30-06 is "Enough".


You got> TUIT <before I got here this AM. grin


Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Jerry,

In other words, how do you know what is "ALMOST ENUFF" gun?


Wow, is that ever a loaded question or questions. The simplest answer I have is :

Among other rifle/cartridge combos I have, I also have the renown, reputable, venerable 30-06. Earlier someone said in words to this effect,
no other rounds are more American than the 270 W and 30-06.

I know I will not ever hunt outside of the U.S. and it has been demonstrated multiple times the 30-06 is dependable for all North American game including Brown Bear. So IF a hunter is 'confident' and 'comfortable' with their 06, it is more than 'almost enuff'.
We have members here who've said the 30-06 kicked too much for them....so they aren't comfortable with it.


Originally Posted by Blacktailer
"Enough" in one man's hands may not be enough in another's. Headstamps and BC's don't kill, shot placement does.


AND enuff in one man's hands may be too much in another's.


Jerry


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Dakota, +1 on the confidence post. Applies to shooter skill, as well as their choice in gear.

Never felt handicapped when deer hunting with a 6BR...killed out to 400 yds......"I" had the confidence. Others w/o experience with one, might scoff. FWIW.

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
I'm one that believes a guy can buy and use whatever he desires as long as it's legal. Based on what is seen nowadays, as well as the pics a guy can see on various forums, in a hunting situation, seems like most people are over-scoped, and over-rifled.


Not judging others gear/choices....but I sat next to a guy at a local range years ago, he had 2 custom Jarrrett built 300J's with 3K plus optics aboard. He shot MOA or so groups and hunted in the South for deer. I commented, nice rifles, you must get some long shots. He replied, yeah, shot one at about 285 yards.

Meanwhile I reflected on dropping deer with the rifle I was using. A 6BR on a Ruger No.1, Kepplinger trigger (cost about 1k when built) with a $300 B&L scope, which I had shot groups sub-half inch....once at 330 yds, and taken deer at 400. I smiled at his comment........he enjoyed his gear, and I enjoyed mine. I did not enjoy the blast out of the braked rifles he was using............

Many ways to skin a cat they say. On Dangerous Game, shoot enough gun....that you can shoot well, using good bullets and placement. On non-dangerous game when not in DG territory........many folks could enjoy less blast and recoil. Perhaps something many 6.5 Creedmoor fans came to realize which helped it grow, on top of the accuracy and ammo prices.

It's just what you want to do....and how you want to do it. My choices follow my experience.......other's choices might include other rationale.

There are many tools for a job, no doubt the '06 and 300 WM get much play, especially in NA for the one gun hunter. I've yet to NEED more than modest 6-7mm's for the bulk of what I do, but once enjoyed a 338-06.....but have shot 338 WM, 375, and 416 RM at paper. All great rounds, for their intended purposes.

So to answer enough...it's Subjective....and in some cases "it depends"

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Originally Posted by 65BR
Originally Posted by JGRaider
I'm one that believes a guy can buy and use whatever he desires as long as it's legal. Based on what is seen nowadays, as well as the pics a guy can see on various forums, in a hunting situation, seems like most people are over-scoped, and over-rifled.


Not judging others gear/choices....but I sat next to a guy at a local range years ago, he had 2 custom Jarrrett built 300J's with 3K plus optics aboard. He shot MOA or so groups and hunted in the South for deer. I commented, nice rifles, you must get some long shots. He replied, yeah, shot one at about 285 yards.

Meanwhile I reflected on dropping deer with the rifle I was using. A 6BR on a Ruger No.1, Kepplinger trigger (cost about 1k when built) with a $300 B&L scope, which I had shot groups sub-half inch....once at 330 yds, and taken deer at 400. I smiled at his comment........he enjoyed his gear, and I enjoyed mine. I did not enjoy the blast out of the braked rifles he was using............

Many ways to skin a cat they say. On Dangerous Game, shoot enough gun....that you can shoot well, using good bullets and placement. On non-dangerous game when not in DG territory........many folks could enjoy less blast and recoil. Perhaps something many 6.5 Creedmoor fans came to realize which helped it grow, on top of the accuracy and ammo prices.

It's just what you want to do....and how you want to do it. My choices follow my experience.......other's choices might include other rationale.

There are many tools for a job, no doubt the '06 and 300 WM get much play, especially in NA for the one gun hunter. I've yet to NEED more than modest 6-7mm's for the bulk of what I do, but once enjoyed a 338-06.....but have shot 338 WM, 375, and 416 RM at paper. All great rounds, for their intended purposes.

So to answer enough...it's Subjective....and in some cases "it depends"


Most of us use what we enjoy using and don't restrict ourselves to what we have to use.

We leave that to those who cannot aford choice or whose employer insists that they use what is provided.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
WAM,

In the context of this thread, your post would be far more informative if you'd list some of the inadequate cartridge/game disasters you mention.


One such incident was a couple of yahoos chasing a wounded bull over onto the private land we were hunting. I watched them hit the bull 3 times with a .243 and they finally killed it. It had been initially hit over the ridge on BLM land before they came trespassing onto the ranch. When they traipsed down the hillside to where the landowner and I were standing, their sheepish comment was “Guess we need bigger rifles”. Said perps had a .243 and .308 Win with Lord only knows what ammo. Another hunter in our party brought his son one year and he managed to cripple several deer with a .243 Win. Both he and dad are banned from the ranch these days. I have bumped into other such situations huntin here in WA on public land. Happy Trails


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Originally Posted by WAM
I bought a .35 Whelen 29 years ago because I felt undergunned with a .308 Win in Montucky with ol’ griz wandering about. About a dozen years ago I bought my 7mm Weatherby to reach out a bit farther in open country. Eight or nine years ago I stumbled upon a like new .300 Weatherby Fibermark at an absolute steal while looking for a .257 Roy and never looked back. With the right load, those 3 will kill anything on the planet.

With the right bullet placement ,a 30/30 will kill anything on this planet.

Last edited by Huntz; 03/01/19.

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Originally Posted by WAM
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
WAM,

In the context of this thread, your post would be far more informative if you'd list some of the inadequate cartridge/game disasters you mention.


One such incident was a couple of yahoos chasing a wounded bull over onto the private land we were hunting. I watched them hit the bull 3 times with a .243 and they finally killed it. It had been initially hit over the ridge on BLM land before they came trespassing onto the ranch. When they traipsed down the hillside to where the landowner and I were standing, their sheepish comment was “Guess we need bigger rifles”. Said perps had a .243 and .308 Win with Lord only knows what ammo. Another hunter in our party brought his son one year and he managed to cripple several deer with a .243 Win. Both he and dad are banned from the ranch these days. I have bumped into other such situations huntin here in WA on public land. Happy Trails

Shot placement on the wounding hits? That’s a far bigger factor than caliber or powder capacity. Bullets also matter far more than headstamp. A .243 with 55gr varmint bullets into the humerus of an elk would not be an ideal application of said bullet.

Without identifying those factors (which bullets and where they were placed), it’s erroneous to jump to the conclusion that the chambering is to blame.

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