Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters .270 .30-06 one powder?

While RL-26 may turn out to be a great powder with 180's in the .30-06, I tend to wait for pressure-tested data with new powders, ESPECIALLY newer, very progressive burning powers like RL-26. This is because so many super-progressive powders have turned out to actually produce pressures well above what SAAMI considers a safe level when actually pressure-tested, despite a lack of "pressure signs."

This happened with RL-17 a LOT when it appeared, mostly because it was released with almost no pressure-tested data. Consequently, handloaders started working up loads using traditional pressure signs, and reported 17 was a magic powder, getting up to 200 fps more from a wide variety of case/bullet combinations.

The big problem is that traditional pressure signs don't normally appear even with less-progressive powders until around 70,000 PSI, and sometimes 75,000 PSI. This has been demonstrated many time, and ne example is the reason the 7mm STW "lost" over 200 fps 140-160 grain bullets during its transition from wildcat to factory round. The original, widely-published wildcat loads, worked up with "pressure signs," turned out to produce 70,000-75,000 PSI.

The same basic thing occurred again when RL-17 was introduced: After pressure-tested data started appearing, it turned out that while 17 did sometimes produce another 50-100 fps in a few cartridge/bullet combinations, in general it wasn't any more magic than quite a few existing powders.

In fact, the same is true of a bunch of today's newer powders. While they often prove to produce a noticeable velocity gain in specific combinations, no powder yet has appeared that gets a LOT of extra velocity in a wide variety of rifle cartridges without frequently exceeding 65,000 PSI.

Whether the SAAMI maximum of 65,000 PSI (the highest pressure they allow for any commercial rifle cartridge) should be heeded is another question. Obviously quite a few handloaders regularly exceed 65,000 PSI without major problems. In fact, the ammo from some "proprietary" rifle companies (meaning they produce rifles and ammo but don't belong to SAAMI) has been demonstrated to get 70,000-75,000 PSI. (Interestingly, the companies that do this just about universally ascribe the extra velocity to case and/or chamber shape, but so far every time somebody pressure-tests their ammo and rifles, the pressures have been a lot higher than 65,000 PSI.)

But SAAMI has been around for over 90 years, and their maximum of 65,000 PSI has been pretty well demonstrated to provide a safe margin of error for when certain conditions might affect pressure. Most handloaders tend to work up loads at temperatures around SAAMI's standard 70 degrees, but despite the proliferation of powders that burn more consistently at various temperatures, I haven't seen one yet that doesn't start to gain quite a bit of velocity (and hence pressure) at temperatures above 80. And pressure laboratories see the same thing. The heat-gains aren't as large as with many older powders, but apparently no powder manufacturer yet has been able to eliminate pressure gains at warmer temperatures. And there are also other factors that can cause pressure increases aside from higher temperatures, including moisture or dust inside bores.

Which is why I tend to rely on actual pressure-tested data, rather than handloader reports, when suggesting loads, especially with newer powders where pressure-tested data is lacking. RL-26 may indeed prove to be as great with 180's in the .30-06 as it is with 150's in the .270, but so far I haven't been able to find any pressure-tested data to confirm that.

However, some other powders have been pressure-proven to provide excellent velocities with both 150's in the .270 and 180's in the .30-06, among them the powders I suggested in my earlier post.

Sincerely, Thank you.


Jerry

Don't even understand a limiting choice mentality.

I've been reloading both for about 40 years. IMR 4350 is a great powder for both rounds. I shoot 150 grain Partitions in my 270 Win and 180 grain Partitions in my 30-06.

Yep

To illustrate and elaborate:

I have cartridges/cals, 6mm Rem, 6.5X55. 270 W, 284 W, 7 mm RM, 30-06, 300 WM & 8mm RM..... IIRC. There are multiple rifles w/in those.

I 'COULD' use IMR, H 4350 as my ONE and ONLY powder for all of them, and not give up a lot in the velocity department.

Now, if I calculated HOW MANY lbs. of powder I'd need for all the bullets used in ALL of those........ it would be a sizeable NO. of pounds.

That could become problematic...... we HAVE seen shortages -- real or manufactured -- in the powder OR political arenas.

I feel it's to my advantage to use DIFFERENT powders among those rifles and NOT be dependent on ONE powder. Within 60 or so miles of my place I have multiple sources of reloading components PLUS those on line.

TO ME -- it doesn't matter if I have 30 lbs of different powders OR 30 lbs of 4350. YMMV

You only have to please yourself.


Jerry

jwall, I understand your position, and can agree with your philosophy. Even if it’s not the “best” for each/all applications...I’ll often settle for “good”, while maybe not “great”! memtb

R26 is doing well with the 180-220 grain bullets in the 30-06 according to the various message boards. Most loads do not seem overboard when compared to tested data for the 270. Velocities are good but not way over what some other old standbys produce so looks good.

I like RL-17 in my 6.5-284. Optimal performance without showing pressure.

As they say, when you DO see signs of pressure with RL-17, you're WAY over SAAMI limits. Progressive burning powders don't tend to have marked pressure spikes, their pressure curves are smoother.

Now, H-4350 is a good bit more temp stable than RL-17, and probably easier on throats. RL-17, like other progressive type powders, are said to be harder on throats. Even though the 6.5-284 has a less than stellar reputation for burning barrels, I like RL-17 in that round for accuracy and performance. I don't shoot it enough to eat out the throat or trash the barrel. Besides, they make new barrels every day...

DF

I am liking R16 so far and it loads almost charge per charge with R17 sometimes one will do better than the other but any trade off goes to R16 as it is as stable or better than the Enduron powders. No idea on throat erosion but doubt that it is much if any better than R17. R16 has applications in the 270 and 30-06 and is a top choice for the light to medium weight bullets in either cartridge. I wonder what the actual numbers are for round counts with the different powders? I would bet the differences are not huge but could be wrong about that.

Dirtfarmer, I was planning to try RL 17 in my 6.5-284 with 139 Scenars. Do you have any suggested start points, or for that matter....end points! memtb

Ended up with 48.8 gr. RL-17 with 140 gr. Hunting VLD @ 3K fps. So you may want to drop back a tad to start and check load data.

Works for me.

DF

My issue is that in my part of the country, you might possibly find yourself shooting in 100+ temperatures. Stating the obvious, I'd much rather deal with an under performing load in cold temps than an over pressure on a hot day.

reloader 22 is ok too

Thanks a bunch! What was your preferred primer? memtb

Fed 210

DF

Dirtfarmer, Thanks! I suspected that, but had to ask! Thanks again! memtb

I have tried several of the slower powders and I always come back to IMR or H-4350 in both the 270 and 30-06, and even my 270WSM.
4350 has been the best powder in all 4 of my 270s. Although I am using Accurate 4350 in one 270.
I use H-4350 also in one of my 06s behind 180 trainers. .

I too have found the Accurate 4350 quite a bit slower than my H-4350 but it still appears faster than conventional H-4831. Haven’t tried any short cut stuff except for 7828 SC. It wasn’t the greatest in my 270s.

I guess I am in the realm of those who are over-pressuring their loads, but I can’t for the life of me see how there is any danger if there is no sticky bolt lift and, especially, still have easy case extraction with primer pockets that are still a press fit.
Of course I use that methodology only in a bolt action, and I would never load that way in a lever or gas gun.

This was going to be my suggestion. It's been great in my 30/06 with 180's and if I wasn't using RL26 in my 270 I'd be using the RL16.

Imr4350