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Joined: May 2011
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,354 Likes: 9 |
You sure use a lot of funny words I never hoid of.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,309
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,309 |
I always liked the term "Pet Load." I think just finding what works the best for you in your gun is the fun in it all. And the only funny word I have for this morning is bananas.
"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law" "Klaatu barada nikto"
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 59
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 59 |
Looks like Gnoahhh moonlights for Barnes. Just heard back from them this am. Said they were working on "official" load development to post on their web site. Recommended to use the data from(1)-A 170 gr jacketed reduced by 2.5 grs and work up--OR-- (2)-Find a 190 gr jacketed recipe in a loading manual and start at their starting load and work up.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2 |
No moonlighting here. Just being a student of The Gun for a half-century.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,761 |
Don't bull poopy me......barnsey boy!
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,044 |
Looks like Gnoahhh moonlights for Barnes. Just heard back from them this am. Said they were working on "official" load development to post on their web site. Recommended to use the data from(1)-A 170 gr jacketed reduced by 2.5 grs and work up--OR-- (2)-Find a 190 gr jacketed recipe in a loading manual and start at their starting load and work up. Just to further clarify, Barnes was recommending starting at 2.5 grains below the starting load of 170 grain jacketed bullet.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,074 Likes: 2 |
Last edited by sqweeler; 03/14/19.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2 |
And if you're a real nut, here's some loads recommended by Phil Sharpe in his "Complete Guide to Handloading", copyright 1941:
All with 190 jacketed bullet-
HiVel#2, 30.1 grains, 2080fps, 41,000psi HiVel#3, 27.4 grains, 2150fps, 41,000psi Hercules 300, 33.4 grains, 2070fps, 38,000psi DuPont 17 1/2, 32.6 grains, 1982fps, no pressure listed Lightning, 25.8 grains,1990fps, no pressure listed Sharpshooter, 17.6 grains, 1695fps, 33,000psi DuPont SR-80, 14.0 grains, 1250fps, no pressure listed (actually that stuff is comparable to SR-4759, but that's moot because 4759 was discontinued 3-4 years ago)
These are max loads, so start low and work up. And if you actually mess with any of these old powders, bravo to you!
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 109
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 109 |
I looked that up last night myself. But pray tell of a source for either of the HiVel powders or Hercules 300. The others I had at least read of in my 40+ years of reading and handloading.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 109 |
Which Lyman edition is the illustrated page from? Prior to the 44th edition. I have from 44th to the present.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,309 |
Speaking of Hercules Powder and a bit of irony, it was made out here in a town called, of all things, Hercules. The town sits along the northeast shore of San Francisco Bay and, as I understand it, there are still the remains of powder bunkers in the hills above the bay shore.
"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law" "Klaatu barada nikto"
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2 |
I looked that up last night myself. But pray tell of a source for either of the HiVel powders or Hercules 300. The others I had at least read of in my 40+ years of reading and handloading.
There is no source. That stuff was discontinued 60 years ago, give or take.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 100
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 100 |
Squeeler,
I can't read the picture of the load data on the 190 gr jacketed bullet or the 170&180 jacketed bullet table. Can you try to get a better picture, or just type the data in for us? It looks like there is data on 3031, 4895, and 4064, all of which are of course available and are proven performers. Thanks!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,044 |
That older data always seems pretty hot. Those loads exceed what the current Hodgdon web site lists for 30-30 170 grain jacketed bullets. When lacking data for the 303 Savage, I've looked at the 30-30 for comparison.
Last edited by KeithNyst; 03/14/19.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 127
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 127 |
Just loaded 3 cartridges each of 190 grain Hawk with 29,30 and 31 grains of IMR3031. Once spring gets here I will run them over the chrony (20" 1899H .303 savage) I will report back with the results.
Darryl
From the Great White North
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,044 |
Just loaded 3 cartridges each of 190 grain Hawk with 29,30 and 31 grains of IMR3031. Once spring gets here I will run them over the chrony (20" 1899H .303 savage) I will report back with the results.
Darryl Just a FWIW, this old data seems pretty hot. Hodgdon's current load data lists the max load for a 30-30 with a 170 grain jacketed bullet as 29.2 grains of IMR 3031. I'd think a current load for 30-30 with a 190 grain jacketed bullet would be 2-3 grains below that 29.2 grain max load. Granted, a 30-30 is not a 303 Savage, but the case capacity is very similar and many of us have used 30-30 data as starting point for 303 Savage loads.
Last edited by KeithNyst; 03/14/19.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 127 |
I have researched this topic pretty thoroughly. It seems the biggest concern with older data is if the powder composition has changed over the 40 to 60 years since the data was published. Having talked to people who know powder it seems IMR 3031 is the least likely to have any change. Having said that I feel starting at 29 grains will be enough margin of safety. From there any attempts to shoot the other loads will be based on observations of the 29 grain load results. The loads are from a trusted source I might add.
Darryl
From the Great White North
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,354 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,354 Likes: 9 |
Everybody's a prize fighter till they get punched in the face.
Last edited by Fireball2; 03/14/19.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 127
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 127 |
Well I will test the loads tomorrow. If I survive the "punch in the face" I will report back.
Darryl
From the Great White North
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