Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire NZ FIREARMS LAWS PROHIBIT SELF DEFENSE.

The thing about NZ is not only is it small, but it is also about as "diverse" as the US was maybe 60 years ago - a time when the US was pretty crime-free as well. But instead of being 15% African, NZ has Maoris. The Maoris don't seem to be nearly as prone to criminality as our AAs. And of course, just as in the US, the Asian population is mostly law-abiding.

All in all, the talk I'm reading from our Kiwi friends is amazingly similar to the way Swedes put Americans down BEFORE Sweden had *any* minorities!

Traveling to NZ must be like stepping into a time machine for Americans.

Two schools of thought.

The "collective" feels that the population doesn't need personal protection.

They "individual" may want personal protection.

The collective doesn't trust the individual, the individual largely doesn't trust the collective.

So, there you have it.

Depends on which side of the argument one is coming from.

BTW, the biggest proponents of collectivism are communists and socialists...

The individual is expected to give up freedom (maybe his life) to fit the collective model and agenda.

Not that complicated, pretty simple, actually....

DF

Guns and gun ownership do not cause crime. Quite the reverse in fact. When Florida passed carry law, violent crime there against US citizens went down (as it has most everywhere) - that against certainly unarmed foreign visitors went up. IIRC, even burglary with homeowners present went down. Gee - I wonder why....

Switzerland comes to mind also. Few people, guns everywhere, and largely a mono-culture. Very low crime rate. Unless you count banks.....

Statistically - hardly anyone (per capita) in the US needs a gun for self defense. Until they do. That is the whole point of 2A.

My liberal brother ( the one that keeps borrowing my long guns) once made the statement to the effect that, "The only reason for a hangun is to kill people."

To which my youngest brother replied, "And if killing time comes around, I want to be sure to have one!"

Note the "if" - Not "when". Potential sure-thing victim vs not-so-much victim mindsets. Both are semi-honest people.... outside politics, anyway.

Everyone, everywhere is a potential victim; some more than others.

Just because I'm paranoid, or not paranoid, doesn't mean someone is not out to get me.

A cop 10 or 15 minutes away isn't going to do a damned bit of good either, until (maybe) after the fact, nor is an over-all low crime rate any protection. It just allows sheep to remain sheep (sorry- I couldn't help the reference. ), and the jackels an easy time.

People in most countries do not realize how thin law enforcement is in most of the US, urban and rural. Police reaction times of fifteen min. is considered good in most jurisdictions, rural areas are much worse. Many counties are huge and deputies on duty can be as few as one or two at night. Since most violent crimes are over in a few minutes or even seconds being unarmed borders on negligence.

Most people in the US don't either. Many villages in Alaska have NO LE on hand. Some have an unarmed "Public Safety Officer". Or at least that was the case. After one was shot and killed, I believe they are now "allowed" to go officially armed.

State Toopers have to be brought in (usuallty air- sometimes boat or snow machine) from larger towns to investigate (reported) crime - and if the weather acts up, that could take a couple days, not "just" 15 minutes... A single trooper may have an area larger than some entire states to cover, with dozens or hundreds of roadless miles between population centers. But not that many people.

And communication even within the LE can get interesting. Several years ago, 2 troopers were shot/killed in Tanana, a small Yukon River village. Nearest trooper station (Headquarters) was Fairbanks, a couple hundred miles away. For the first couple hours, a woman in Tanana was texting updates to her sister in Kotzebue (a coworker of my wife), who was then passing it on to the Fairbanks ST office. We had two ST stationed in Kotzebue at the time, but Hdqtrs had to be in the loop. I don't know if the Kotz guys were in the loop, or even in town.

At any rate, the lines of communication got shortened after a time, but it still took several hours for other troopers to fly into Tanana from Fairbanks.

NZ is 127th in World population by country. About like Louisiana.
Tiny.

You're not paranoid if they're really after you.

DF

The only idiots I see are the ones posting saying their world isn't changing with their influx of muslims.

I know several on my local Sheriff's office, I've seen how they shoot, only 2 or 3 are gonna be any sort of problem..............Besides I don't expect my local Sheriff Dept to be any sort of a problem at all.

I don't have any Militia buddies, I don't even think I know anyone in the Michigan Militia.

By the response to the New Zealand shooter I would say the response time was a little slow there as well.

The simple truth is that blacks are responsible for a hugely disproportionate percentage of crime in the US, and nobody will even admit it, let alone do something about it. It makes the rest of us look bad, because they drive gun crimes up a LOT. The rest of the world thinks were a bunch of gunslingers. The millions involved in shooting sports, with a very low accident rate, defies that implication.

All the statistics I see point to that. I wonder what the gun death stats would look like if you removed gun deaths from just blacks and suicides. My bet is it would be dramatic.

The American Gunslinger, has a nice ring to it.

To put things into perspective with New Zealand...


New Zealand

Area
• Total 103,483 sq mi

Population
• March 2019 estimate 4,947,650

Greater Houston

Population (2010) 6,490,180

I'm sure not running NZ down in any way. But we have gun control in major cities here that is at least restrictive as what NZ will now have.

It's time for EVERYONE to wake up.

I think we have two different views of government (particularly the crown) based upon our national experiences.

We Yanks figure there is no harm in law abiding citizens being well armed. The onus to prove why a person is unfit is upon the government. Who cares if the government isn’t currently a problem they will become one and its our responsibility to stop them.

Kiwis didn’t have to throw off the crown forcibly and didn’t have big toothy mammalian predators to exterminate while settling. They’ve had relative peace amongst the citizenry largely due to its homogeneous nature.

The world is getting smaller ya might wanta reconsider...

I couldn't care any less as to the state of the state of New Zealand.

Interesting.

2015 Total Gun Deaths___________________38,658

2015 Suicide gun deaths__________________22,938

If you remove suicide alone from the equation the gun death stats drop dramatically.

It is obvious from these stats that New Zealand is such a happy place that they have a much lower suicide rate..............

Like I said, about like Denmark, Norway, etc.

I have been reading your posts and as a rural Western Canadian things are similar here, we have high firearm ownership, little crime, our homes are unlocked. I don't need a firearm to protect me from an intruder, except for the Grizzlies, there are no security issues.
I always have a truck gun- always.
I am a card carrying Conservative, active in firearm and wildlife issues. It is not written in to our constitution but there would be a fight and we won't give these up. We never rollover.
I haved travelled and rodeo'd in similar country in western USA and feel we are very similar.
Yup, there should be extensive background checks for first time firearm owners , imo. New Canadians in particular. Especially, City folks...I don't understand any of them, no matter the nationality.

Fair enough. You make some good and pertinent points. I've travelled extensively all over the world, mostly when I was younger. You're right, there's plenty of bad spots to avoid, regardless of the continent. I was robbed twice in the U.S. However, I put that down to my naivety at the time. I was just careless and too trusting.

I hear you. Most city folk are a different breed. I found the rural American and Canadians really nice, decent and friendly people. Same with the Aussies. We all have a lot in common and culture and lifestyles are virtually identical; only the accent changes.