Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires Kids and open sights

Been shooting more with the kids lately. Posted pics a couple days ago from the gopher fields.


Kids have been doing quite well with their Henry 22 lever guns. Boy has a youth model lever and daughter uses a standard.


I am quite happy with their marksmanship....for the most part. They get excited and will close their eyes or jerk the trigger once in a while.




However, I cant help but think that I should buy a 4 power or a 3x9 scope and mount it to one of the rifles.


I do want them to be handy with iron sights, but I reckon a low power scope would bring them a bunch more enjoyment.



What say you folks? Keep them going with the irons or treat them to a scope??



Thanks

Never had a scoped 22 as a kid, didn't seem to need it.
Then again old Remington 22's had good fine bead sights, not these square things that belong on a pistol sold nowadays

It's best to teach them both ways in my opinion.

If they are doing well with the open sights I wouldn't hesitate to introduce a scoped option.

Just make sure they continue to learn both ways.

-Jake

i always had open sights as a kid and cheap 22 rifles and never enough 22 ammo, i wanted my son to have a couple of decent 22LR`s and his favorite was a Marlin 39A and it still is for him and me yet today,we own 3 of them. my son wanted a scope on his Marlin 39A , i wanted him to learn open sights better so i purchased Williams peep sight set and yes that peep sight set was not cheap either. son was not happy that night when i put the peep sight set on that rifle, so i told him try it for a week ,the next day in the summer when i got home from work son said dad come watch me shoot this peep sight at 75 yards at a black bird in the tree . one shot at 75 yards and that bird was dead and that little boy was so happy with that peep sight he never ever mention a scope again ,i never had any problems with rodents with son guarding our garden and lawn with his Marlin 39A i did have trouble keeping 22 ammo on hand for him and i mis that little guy asking for more 22 ammo too. lucky for me my 6 year old grandson is next to get a Marlin 39A and these days i have plenty 22 LR ammo too.

Some things get better with age, but eyes aren't one of them. Just appreciate those young eyes for a while before you scope things for them. My pellet gun went from open sights to a peep to a scope and back to the peep again because it more closely matched the limited range of the pellet gun. It also nearly doubled the sighting radius from the barrel mounted open sight. A scope is going to add some weight as well and youngsters won't appreciate shooting at long range anyway. I still remember an unlucky red squirrel way up in the top of a big white pine that I gunned as a kid with my iron sighted Winchester M62A. Scopes later on made shooting almost too easy, but the rifles were heavier and harder to carry.

If they are gonna deer hunt later, etc. Have them working with a scope some. Have my seven year old shooting nice groups at 300 with my AR with a 4x. He's heck on a deer. I'm a fan of iron sights, especially when plinking but getting them started with a scope some now will lessen the learning curve down the road. Just put a fixed 4 on a 10/22, they are having a blast with it and shooting up all my ammo.

I think the old timers died young - before the eyes really got bad. It isn't a matter of not being able to see a fine bead very well. I can't see them at all! I shoot a square post and a peep, pretty good.

Let them get very proficient with the iron sights while they are young and can see well!
Scopes are very easy to learn how to use.
I remember the day I thought that 4X was capable of shooting way out there....

I've got an assortment of 22's, including a Henry lever. Some are scoped, some ain't and the grandkids get to learn iron sights first, including a Savage Rascal with that neat aperture rear sight. Then they can get familiar with the scoped stuff. Lots of kids today start out with scopes and never really learn irons. Being proficient with irons is something of an art form to some kids. To them it's like they've mastered some type of lost art from ancient times. Like what we dinosaurs used eons ago. This dinosaur gets a kick out of them marveling over it.

JC. I agree on the question of starting with irons. Later in life when a scope goes to Hell on a big outing, they may still be in business if packing irons. If ones gophers are the same as our ground squirrels, I'd suggest a scope in the 9 to 10X range. Squirrels can completely disappear behind a 4x crosshair at 70 to 80yds.Especially the youngsters. Parallax adjustment is a big help too More power makes it easier to try for head shots as opposed to just targeting an entire body.

Whatever happened to teaching kids to actually hunt? Ease through the woods, stalk close enough to use iron sights? We've become a nation of sniper wannabe's and it would seem we're teaching the kids the same attitude. Can't get close enough to whack that animal with iron sights? Wave bye bye to it with a smile- it teaches kids humility and the important lesson that it's not just about killing stuff.

Walk before you can run, learn to use hand tools before graduating to power tools, and learn to drive Dad's pickup truck before hopping behind the wheel of a tractor trailer- same difference as learning to shoot with iron sights first. Lay the groundwork first.

I would say the days of foodplots and hunting over fields possibly. Legalizing baiting, etc. I get your point but don't talk like scopes are the devil....they are a tool just like anything else we take into the field. A good shot whether it be with irons or a scope is still success and meat in the freezer is still meat in the freezer. Who in the world thinks that using a scope means you are only about killing stuff? Crazy talk.

When my boys and I want to get close and personal with something, we turkey hunt. That will humble you quick on a lot of days.

I never said using a scope means you are only about killing stuff. Re-read what I wrote. I was referring to passing up shots under circumstances do-able with a scope sighted gun but that couldn't be managed with open sights.

Most of my rifles are scoped. Most of those same guns have iron sights on them too (usually aperture sights). Which approach (sighting arrangement) I take on a given day is determined by how sporting I'm feeling, but the irons get chosen more often than not.

I get that more and more hunters in large sections of the country are resorting to food plots (baiting, let's be honest), and hunting from a single spot (stand) all day. Blame changes in land use and the land owners. I and my fellow sportsmen who hunt Pennsylvania (and even my Maryland) enjoy astonishingly large tracts of public land where the old traditional hunting methods can be employed. I'm not forced to hover over a tiny plot of ground wherein I gotta take the shot whether it's ideal or not. For that I thank the Pennsylvania Game Commission and the Maryland DNR for actually using all those Pittman-Robertson funds the way they were intended to be used- it saved a lot of land for in the public domain. Lots of elbow room, so to speak. If I had to sit and watch the same four acres of ground all day every day, with a rifle whose scope rivaled the Hubble telescope because I was afraid of missing my one and only chance all season, I would go absolutely batshit crazy.

Still in all, either way it doesn't mean one should skip an important stage in a newbie's marksmanship training.

Growing up I had an air rifle with open sights, a .22 with open sights, and a .22 with a fixed 4x Weaver. Looking back, my favorite was the air rifle (a Sheridan .20 cal). I never favored a scope more than iron sights, because I shot millions of pellets each summer with open sights. But, scopes have their place in the world.

I vote to put a scope on one of the rifles if they can share and use both types of sights. Otherwise, throw caution to the wind and scope them both! Enjoy!

I really like iron sights. It's more enjoyable to shoot offhand with irons at "things" than it is to shoot paper with a scope off a bench.
My eyes just ain't that great though. I definitely shoot better with magnified optics.

Still remember beigh 5 or 6 and dad putting chalk on the chalk board showing me how to line up irons and put the "pumpkin on the post". Lol.

I started my kids on a scope first. 4x fixed on bolt guns not long after they wanted bigger scopes .I think now irons should have first

Kids need to learn. Open leaf sights are a start and peeps or aperture sights a good follow up. If they become proficient with those things while their eyes are still young scopes will be a walk on the beach. Doesn't work all that well the other way around.

Longest shot I ever made with a .22 was over 100 yards and done with open leaf sights....when I was about 13. The black bird lost his head...

.02

Something that we haven't mentioned is the length of pull on a lot of the .22's out there. A young kid can see irons or a peep sight from a long way back if they are mounting the rifle correctly, but not so with a scope. To get the full fov through a scope, you sure don't want a kid getting into the habit of holding the rifle butt under their arm pit. Dad didn't buy me a kid size .22 because I was only getting one at age 10 and it was a Winchester M62A with irons.

Maybe throw in some quick detach rings so it'll be easy to switch between the 2 whenever you want.

Good thread, started my 9 year old on a savage bolt 22 this year. I asked my myself the same question regarding scoping and went with irons, am glad I did. As someone mentioned, the LOP becomes less critical and being an old fashioned rifleman, I believe shooting with irons is a good fundamental to be had.

I listen to the Hal Blood podcasts occasionally, those Mainers still use irons and manage to get their venison.

Granted, this goes back over 40 years to a different time and gun culture.

My son, now over 50 and a battalion commander in the Army NG, combat veteran, learned to shoot with a single shot Savage .22, then muzzle loaders. Open iron sights all. Don't recall that he ever fired a semiauto until a Garand as a teenager. Don't recall the first scoped rifle, but it too came along later.

This photo is from a state muzzleloading match when he was just shy of his ninth birthday. The medals, three gold and a silver, are from the teen class, and the target a 100 yard prone match where he beat the men's winner by a point. The shot at 9 o' clock should have gone center, but for a bad wind call on my part. Stiff breeze from the left. Rifle a .50 cal. Hawken, round ball.

He has always had a natural ability, but a kid doesn't develop that kind of skill with a scoped 10/22 and bricks of ammo.

Paul

If they get more enjoyment out of shooting with a scope I’d scope and let them shoot as much as possible. Once it’s in their blood and they love shooting they could learn open sights. Another option would be scoping the rifles and adding a good 22 pistol for open sight training. Adding the pistol would add a cool factor that should set the hook pretty deeply.

I think you are on the right track. Let them learn with open sights first. I was in my late 30's before I went to a scope. Never felt handicapped at all.

Let them use open sights as long as they can, unless their eyes dictate otherwise.

In ideal circumstances, where a beginner (kid or not) has lots of opportunity to shoot, learning to shoot with open sights is useful. However, many folks these days do not have much opportunity to shoot. The kids in my extended family like to shoot but they only get the chance when they visit us, which is infrequent. So, I want them to become proficient shooters as soon as possible and that is much easier with a scoped rifle. Especially for those kids who want to hunt with me. It's essential that they be able to shoot accurately.

I grew up with open sights and still enjoy using them on rimfire and center fire rifles. One can become quite proficient with open sights. My vote would be to let them use the iron sights. Everyone's eyes are different. I've always preferred a bead vs a flat post.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

I did buy an affordable scope.

As it stands one Henry has a scope and the other is open sighted.

I will make sure they get time with both.

They do quite well with irons yet. Once I ask if they have their eyes open......

I started both of my girls with a Remington 512 with open sights, same rifle I started with. One has now graduated to a 10/22 with a 2X-7X Leupold and the other a Ruger American with a 2X-7X Weaver scope. Both rifles have Warne QD rings so I can remove the scope if they want to shoot open sights.

I have the Henry H001. My only complaint with the rifle is the sights. I eventually put a scope on it which I didn't want to do. I should have bought the Golden Boy with better sights I guess but I liked the feel of the H001 better.

Savage Cub Mini/Rascal...

Bought a cub mini when my youngest was 8. Wish I had 5 of them as it's always everyboby's favorite when the bunch is together littering the landscape with rimfire brass.

And I suppose there'd be room for it in the safe but it never makes it that far. Somebody is always toting it somewhere...

I agree that iron sights should be learned early and are a basic skill for the rifleman, however due to nearsightedness and colorblindness scopes opened up a whole new world of shooting to me when I was ten.

I agree. My Dad's eyesight wasn't great but he was deadly with a scoped rifle. Grandpa had excellent eyesight and never used a scope in his life. Grandpa had receiver sights on all his rifles.

Had the Savage Cub Mini out this morning and at 50 yds put 5 CCI standard velocities in a bit over 3" standing offhand. Left forearm braced on a 4X4 upright post.

I’m pretty much with the majority. I have three boys, youngest is a freshman in college. All three learn to shoot with open sites first and after they showed they got it I then would introduce a scope into the equation. I also taught them to shoot open sites with both eyes open. Really helped them when they transitioned to shooting clay birds with a shot gun. During all of this we found out the youngest son was left eye dominant but he was mostly right handed. I explained everything to him and told him he would be better off shooting left handed. His reply was ... ok. He never flinched and hasn’t looked back.