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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 369
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 369 |
It seems that the 6.5x284 Norma is touted as an exceptional long range target round and a great big game round, not a round you see on every Walmart shelf, but most people have heard of it.
The 284 Win on the other hand is much less common, and while no one seems to look down on it, no one speaks of it in the same high manner they do of the 6.5x284.
But they have the same parent case with only slight differences, and a 160gr .284 bullet can easily have a higher BC and SD than a 140gr .264 bullet. So why isn’t the 284 also considered to be a great long range round for targets and one of the best game-getters? Am I missing something? Obviously the 284s popularity is hurt because of the lack of ammo and rifles being produced for it, but for both cartridges the norm seems to be handloads and custom/semi custom guns.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,283
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,283 |
i own both cartridges both are great rounds,matter a fact last fall i was able to purchase a Savage 99 with a clip in a 284 Winchester that`s now my walk around rifle. my 6.5x284`s i own shoot excellent too. also have a couple of 6mmx284`s and these are a super accurate with plenty speed, i guess its just a over looked cartridge case ? just like the Savage cartridge case ?
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,112
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,112 |
If Winchester had introduced the 284 in at least a mauser length action and in the M70, it would have had a much
better start. It was put in the short action M88 and M100 for original introduction.
It also has some pretty stiff competition in the 284/7mm crowd.
The 6.5x284 really got noticed when Tubbs won a lot of long distance competition.
It did not have that much competition until the recent "new cartridge of the month" craze.
I have a 284 that is a real thumper with 160 NPs and a 6.5x284 that does great with the 130 AB.
I had a 6mmx284 that was a real smoker, but re barreled to the 6.5.
Most who shoot something in the 284 case keep it. You do not see many for sale.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,147
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,147 |
It seems that the 6.5x284 Norma is touted as an exceptional long range target round and a great big game round, not a round you see on every Walmart shelf, but most people have heard of it.
The 284 Win on the other hand is much less common, and while no one seems to look down on it, no one speaks of it in the same high manner they do of the 6.5x284.
But they have the same parent case with only slight differences, and a 160gr .284 bullet can easily have a higher BC and SD than a 140gr .264 bullet. So why isn’t the 284 also considered to be a great long range round for targets and one of the best game-getters? Am I missing something? Obviously the 284s popularity is hurt because of the lack of ammo and rifles being produced for it, but for both cartridges the norm seems to be handloads and custom/semi custom guns. Winchester designed the 284 to approximate the 270's performance specs in their Models 88 and 100. The 284's 2.17", 55mm, case length causes COAL issues with many bullets and was factory loaded with shorter 125 and 150 grain bullets. I find it odd that nobody thinks of the 6.5x55 as a short action cartridge, while nearly everyone thinks of the 284 and its progeny as short action cartridges, despite them sharing the same case length. If the 284 and 6.5-284 were really special, they would generate greater demand than they have. Like many good, but neglected, cartridges, they fall into an already crowded niche and don't do anything enough better than more established cartridges to differentiate themselves from the pack. I have multiple of both, but can't remember the last time that I shot any of them.
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,313
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,313 |
OAL and twist rate issues have effectively killed it.
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 369
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 369 |
Does the 6.5x284 do better in a short action though? I get that the 284 initially had problems because it needed a longer magazine that what it was given to achieve optimal performance. But much like the 257 Roberts, people seem to realize the mistake and most guns that you see now (again, often custom guns) have a longer magazine suitable for seating the bullets further out. I’m just curious as to why the wildcats to come off of the 284 seem to have garnered some attention while leaving the original 284Win behind, because it seems to me that in a rifle that’s capable of handling a longer COAL, the 284 out preforms the 6.5 in every way imaginable, except for recoil.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,372
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,372 |
Best bullet ALWAYS wins.
The .284" 180 ELD rates building a rifle around.
Hint...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,147
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,147 |
Does the 6.5x284 do better in a short action though? I get that the 284 initially had problems because it needed a longer magazine that what it was given to achieve optimal performance. But much like the 257 Roberts, people seem to realize the mistake and most guns that you see now (again, often custom guns) have a longer magazine suitable for seating the bullets further out. I’m just curious as to why the wildcats to come off of the 284 seem to have garnered some attention while leaving the original 284Win behind, because it seems to me that in a rifle that’s capable of handling a longer COAL, the 284 out preforms the 6.5 in every way imaginable, except for recoil. The Remington 700 SA allows for a maximum COAL of 2.835". If the 260's case length of 2.065"/51mm has caused it to be shunted aside because it doesn't handle the longer/heavier VLD bullets that are now in vogue as well as the 1.92"/49mm 6.5 Creedmoor, I can't see how the slightly longer 2.17"/55mm 6.5-284 is going to fit in a short action bolt gun better than either the 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor. I have 4 rifles chambered in 6.5-284; Remington x2, Savage, and Winchester. The Remingtons and the Savage are short actions, while the Winchester is a 70 XTR FWT long action rechambered from 6.5x55.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,105
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,105 |
It seems that the 6.5x284 Norma is touted as an exceptional long range target round and a great big game round, not a round you see on every Walmart shelf, but most people have heard of it.
The 284 Win on the other hand is much less common, and while no one seems to look down on it, no one speaks of it in the same high manner they do of the 6.5x284.
But they have the same parent case with only slight differences, and a 160gr .284 bullet can easily have a higher BC and SD than a 140gr .264 bullet. So why isn’t the 284 also considered to be a great long range round for targets and one of the best game-getters? Am I missing something? Obviously the 284s popularity is hurt because of the lack of ammo and rifles being produced for it, but for both cartridges the norm seems to be handloads and custom/semi custom guns. The 284 Win is a cartridge folks build a rifle around for long range competition and with typical, “good” hunting bullets with BC’s in the .45 to .500’s, it is as good as any of a whole bunch of cartridges for game to 400-500 yds. Even in the 700 SA one can add a Wyatt box for a bit more OAL. Build for twist, throat, and even more OAL and and you are in competition much further. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/284-winchester/
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 369
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 369 |
I’m mainly asking because I’m saving up right now, hoping to order a NULA before too long but I’m still deciding what cartridge I’d want. Been leaning toward the 284, because the “short” action on the Model 20 is made to handle the longer 284 cartridges. A few days ago I started looking into the 6.5 as well and generally people seem to love it and it seems to have a stronger following than the original.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,372
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,372 |
7-08 Fieldcraft and never look back...mainly because the mechanics are ALL there. It'll smooch the 180 ELD,from issued COAL.
Hint.....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263 |
For target shooting the 6.5x284 wins out on lower recoil, but looses it's advantage to shorter barrel life. Once you use a 7mm long action there is a lot of competition and cartridges like the 280 and AI usually feed well with no modifications where as the .284 may or may not. Both of them make a lot of sense to me in a Medium action lightweight like the NULA or Fieldcraft as a hunting round.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,752
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,752 |
IIRC, the Norma version is designed for long actions, while the original wildcat is for SAs, as demonstrated by the data in the Hodgdon annuals. Mule Deer has a chapter in Gun Gack about playing with one and a 6.5/06, peas in a pod.
Don Lewis, long-time gunwriter for Pennsylvania Game News, is a big .284 guy. Can't see all the fuss, for the East anyway, over Stick's 7-08, or either .280 or even a .270 for that matter.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,372
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,372 |
Bullets matter wayyyyyyyy more than headstamps.
Hint................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,280
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,280 |
Consider it heretofore and for that matter hereafter over-thunk.
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,372 |
1000 words. Congratulations?!? ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/THHAyb.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/4Nilq4.jpg) Hint.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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