|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,737 Likes: 14
Campfire Savant
|
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,737 Likes: 14 |
Last edited by hanco; 04/17/19.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,662 Likes: 15
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,662 Likes: 15 |
They are livestock now. The live stock of the people who are cultivating them and turning them loose.
The difference now verses then, people had enough sense not to DELIBERATELY FEED THEM BACK THEN and when they were some place they didn't want them, they killed them. You just know so much that isn't so. But please continue..
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,810 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,810 Likes: 5 |
They are livestock now. The live stock of the people who are cultivating them and turning them loose.
The difference now verses then, people had enough sense not to DELIBERATELY FEED THEM BACK THEN and when they were some place they didn't want them, they killed them. No, no they aren’t. No one gives a damn about them except to cuss them these days.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,011 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,011 Likes: 5 |
we had wild hogs back when i was a sprout,, domestic stock that had went feral from the free range days and had been holding out for 20-30 years,, when I was 10-12 yrs old the last ones were killed,, and now these russians hogs have been introduced,, they have thousands of acres of oaks and creeks and lakes,, they wont be killed out around here unless a virus gets em,, MDC wont,, hunters wont either,, too many deep hollows with water,,
I AM AMERICA!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,257
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,257 |
Is there any place where an invasive species, once established, has been eradicated for good?
I'm certainly not in the know regarding feral hogs, but it seems like the best one could hope for is to manage the population. Well, yeah. Couple islands in the Aleutians have been rid of rats and foxes. The rare subspecies of geese are doing much better, even re-establishing on places the rats and foxes had totally eliminated them from. That's good news, but isolated islands are not comparable to the continental infestation. The screw worm and med fly are more to the point. If there is a biological trick that can be applied without collateral damage, I'm all for it. But it seems to me that the government paying for trapping or shooting is not the best plan. It does smack of the nanny state problem of being both cause and effect. At any rate, I can see it is a frustrating situation - kind of like what we have here with people planting their favorite invasive fish.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,982 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,982 Likes: 1 |
hanco, that's a classy pig rifle you got there. - T.S.
NRA Endowment Member Firearms Accumulator Proud Trumpster!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,662 Likes: 15
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,662 Likes: 15 |
The screw worm and med fly are more to the point. If there is a biological trick that can be applied without collateral damage, I'm all for it. But it seems to me that the government paying for trapping or shooting is not the best plan. It does smack of the nanny state problem of being both cause and effect. At any rate, I can see it is a frustrating situation - kind of like what we have here with people planting their favorite invasive fish.
Previously being a wildlife specialist (govt. hunter if you will).. I have contemplated this very thing. Many times. I really tend to agree with you to a point. I had a hard time swallowing those people like a very few sheep ranchers getting govt. help with predator problems they would be better served forming an association and taking care of the problem themselves. It wouldn't cost ranchers much to hire a trapper/hunter to concentrate on THEIR operations exclusively. I know. I used to get called every time a certain rancher even found an coyote turd that was months old... If I would have spent 10 hours a day on that ranch, they still would have bitched. You kill the predators around that ranch, and it benefits that particular ranch too. But certain things cause so much damage, like the feral hogs, that the economic impacts are so large, that the losses are ultimately passed on to consumers... Like you and I, and everyone else. USDA had a chance to eradicate the fire ants when they were still in a relatively small area... But everyone thought it would have been too expensive to do so.. Now fire ants cause 10's of millions of $$ in damage. Wonder what we should have done, if we could go back 50 years or so and evaluated cost compared to what we know now. Some of that is entitlement. Some is needed. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't going to help anyone.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,257
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,257 |
The screw worm and med fly are more to the point. If there is a biological trick that can be applied without collateral damage, I'm all for it. But it seems to me that the government paying for trapping or shooting is not the best plan. It does smack of the nanny state problem of being both cause and effect. At any rate, I can see it is a frustrating situation - kind of like what we have here with people planting their favorite invasive fish.
Previously being a wildlife specialist (govt. hunter if you will).. I have contemplated this very thing. Many times. I really tend to agree with you to a point. I had a hard time swallowing those people like a very few sheep ranchers getting govt. help with predator problems they would be better served forming an association and taking care of the problem themselves. It wouldn't cost ranchers much to hire a trapper/hunter to concentrate on THEIR operations exclusively. I know. I used to get called every time a certain rancher even found an coyote turd that was months old... If I would have spent 10 hours a day on that ranch, they still would have bitched. You kill the predators around that ranch, and it benefits that particular ranch too. But certain things cause so much damage, like the feral hogs, that the economic impacts are so large, that the losses are ultimately passed on to consumers... Like you and I, and everyone else. USDA had a chance to eradicate the fire ants when they were still in a relatively small area... But everyone thought it would have been too expensive to do so.. Now fire ants cause 10's of millions of $$ in damage. Wonder what we should have done, if we could go back 50 years or so and evaluated cost compared to what we know now. Some of that is entitlement. Some is needed. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't going to help anyone. Good points.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,662 Likes: 15
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,662 Likes: 15 |
The key is getting the best bang for the buck.
Nothing so far has been in the least bit effective, unless large concentrations of efforts and resources are piled into one area. Then the area has to be maintained.
Obama didn't do us any favors by gutting the USDA Aphis programs. He damn near de-funded them... due to the nature of politics, and anti-hunting/killing, save the predators BS he was fully onboard with.
I doubt Trump is building those departments back either.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
some kind or type of bio-engineered control technology is needed.
there's pros & cons, but we gotta do something, right?
sure there's money to be made in the "disease."
but overall we need to control the problem.
right now hogs are a problem.
hogs are a money-maker.
which is it on average?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,737 Likes: 14
Campfire Savant
|
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,737 Likes: 14 |
hanco, that's a classy pig rifle you got there. - T.S. Thank you, I’m a newcomer to 99’s. I bought that rifle from Fireball2. That little rifle will shoot sub inch groups at a hundred. I hit the two little pigs on the run. One dumb pig came back a little later. Four other 99’s have infiltrated my gunsafe.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,912 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,912 Likes: 2 |
Rockinbar is correct, most places can’t shoot enough to make a dent unless you shoot em by the tens or hundreds from a helicopter.
Trapping can buy you some time, how much depends on your neighbors.
The abundance of hogs here has to be seen to be believed, even inside the city limits. Even in areas without feeders. This place floods, nobody can build along the creeks, which is where you find the hogs.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,636
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,636 |
Don't know about all this , I don't have the faith in my local game managers that some of you do. I shoot every hog that I get into my sights. At the least it sure makes me feel that I'm doing a part to help with the problem. I have heard other hunters in my area say they only shoot them when it's a good time to. They are scared of spooking the deer etc. , etc. I have killed deer 5 minutes behind killing a hog . The way I see it , every sow I kill is one less that will be dropping more., but I ain't particular with what it is . A dead hog is a good hog.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,737 Likes: 14
Campfire Savant
|
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,737 Likes: 14 |
Don't know about all this , I don't have the faith in my local game managers that some of you do. I shoot every hog that I get into my sights. At the least it sure makes me feel that I'm doing a part to help with the problem. I have heard other hunters in my area say they only shoot them when it's a good time to. They are scared of spooking the deer etc. , etc. I have killed deer 5 minutes behind killing a hog . The way I see it , every sow I kill is one less that will be dropping more., but I ain't particular with what it is . A dead hog is a good hog.
Me too
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,569 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,569 Likes: 8 |
“The take of feral hogs is prohibited on conservation areas and other lands owned, leased, or managed by the Conservation Department. Hunting hogs on other lands is strongly discouraged. I don't *feel* discouraged, so I guess it's OK.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 5 |
I have a personal stake in this and knowledge first hand. Having a farm in Lawrence /Dade county MO. I have personal caught people turning hogs loose. I sometime regret not killing the SOB on the spot . I hate the city hunters wanting to hunt the hogs almost as bad. I shot and let lay or drag off if in a bad area to let lay everyone I see. My local problem is only minor compared to some areas . I coming MDC for trying to do all it can .
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,569 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,569 Likes: 8 |
You're correct in that the @ssholes turnin hogs loose is the problem.
So make *that* illegal, insteada tellin everbody else not to shoot em on sight, which used ta be the rule.
Used to be no license, no size restrictions and no limit.
No doubt the governor's nephew, or somebody high up in MDC, is a "certified" hog eradicator.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 5 |
Understand what your saying kind of agree. But if its illegal to hunt hogs as such the "want" for pigs will lower and some of the releasing will lower ( hopefully) No easy fix or answer.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,569 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,569 Likes: 8 |
There's logic on both ides, but I always try ta err on the side of freedom.
This also exposes a bigger issue, that MDC can ban somethin on "their" land that isn't in the wildlife code.
I don't like *that*, either.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,681 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,681 Likes: 3 |
Is there any place where an invasive species, once established, has been eradicated for good?
I'm certainly not in the know regarding feral hogs, but it seems like the best one could hope for is to manage the population. Well, yeah. Couple islands in the Aleutians have been rid of rats and foxes. The rare subspecies of geese are doing much better, even re-establishing on places the rats and foxes had totally eliminated them from. Yeah, and DEC banned the use of the pesticides they use and now we are overrun with rodents.
Z
|
|
|
|
512 members (1lesfox, 007FJ, 1234, 01Foreman400, 160user, 17CalFan, 50 invisible),
2,348
guests, and
1,214
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,378
Posts18,488,518
Members73,970
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|