Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 338/06

This isn't a response to any one, but just some thinking "out-load".

I always get a laugh when I see the guys on here saying how great a 120 TXS out of a 7mm-08 or a 130 TSX from a .308 or 150 TSX from a .30-06 is, but by God you better use a 250 out of a .338-06!
Wouldn't the .338 bore get the same benefits from the premiums too?

Murphy,

The 1/4 velocity/powder-capacity ratio has nothing to do with where the powder is all burned in the .300 RUM and .308 Win. There is a SLIGHT difference in where the powder is "all" burned (let us say 99% of it, if the pressure is right for the powder used) between the rounds, but it is probably somewhere around 2" in front of the chamber with the .308, maybe 3-4 inches in the .300 RUM. Since no sporting rifles have 3-inch barrels, this has nothing to do with the 1/4 ratio.

I would so a search on this site and get up to speed on this. I simply don't have time here to provide an education on interior ballistics.

Am also growing a little weary on the insistence of some on this thread returning to the "well, my barrel will...." or "a buddy has a Pressure Trace and...." Yeah, there are differences in barrels, and yeah a Pressure Trace or other strain-gauge set-up can tell us RELATIVE pressures. But unless a strain-gauge (or piezo) setup is calibrated to some load of known pressure (such as SAAMI reference ammo) then the numbers are suspect.

We have been through all of this before and I'm a little weary of wasting my time.

JB

My comments on this subject always make a number of people, like Don, all hissy, but I will stand by what I've said.

I have never caught the vision for either the 35 Whelen or the 338-06, and it's unlikely that I ever will. I think the 30-06 case is best left as a 30-06, or else a 280 Rem., 270 Win., or 25-06 Rem.

As I've said all too many times before, if you want optimum performance with bigger, heavier bullets, you need to increase case-capacity as well. There's no free lunch.......

AD

Allen,

My experience exactly.

The only "necked-up" .30-06 case I've found to be more useful than the original is the 9.3x62, but it is actually "double improved," the case shoulder moved forward and the neck opened way up, the reason it comes so close to matching the .338 Win. with 250's....

JB

The 9.3X62 is a logical cartridge..........

AD

I think this thread might be more useful if the point being discussed was a little more clearly defined.

What are we trying to decide- Is it

Is the 338/06 a darn good game rifle? or-

Is the 338/06 superior to, equal to or less than the 30/06? or-

is the 338/06 fun to load for and experiment with? or what?

What is the maximun velocity that can be achieved with various bullets in the 30/06 and the 338/06?

Bear in mind, evidence drawn from a great deal of actual big game kills, like the experience of Phil Shoemaker, Mule Deer Allen Day and the oft refered to Scandanavian study indicate that it takes a HUGE change in class of cartridges to be able to discern and difference in "killing power". Given that hundreds of kills couldn't point out a substantial difference between the 6.5X55 and the 375 H&H in the Scandanavian study, its kind of silly to say that three or four kills with one bullet out of one cartridge suggests superior killing power of one over the other is inane.
Also, to argue that the superiority of the 338/06 over the 30/06 hinges on defining the maximum velocity of the relative bullets to the nearest 100 fps is silly. There can be a difference of 40 FPS at least, from one chronograph to the next,so there can be half of the percieved difference. Additionally, the difference under field conditions of 100 fps in bullet velocity would be impossible to discern by almost anyone.
Discussing rifles and bullets is fun, but plowing the same ground over and over again with arguments that ignore information that has been presented many times already is not productive.

Royce

Well this a quite the popular topic, now isn't it. I think the 338-06 is a fine cartridge if you limit your range to 350 yrds. I used my cousin's 338-06 AI last year for my elk hunt as I have been pondering having one built, and it seemed like quite the effective killer loaded with the 210gr TSX. Was it a better killer than a 30-06 loaded with 180gr TSX? I would say that they are probably about equal, but it was quite impressive. Recoil was far more manageable than some of the Magnums that I've owned over the years.

Royce'

I agree with you,BUT:

I'm a 35Whelen, 338-06 fan and I thoroughly enjoy dissecting load data, velocity charts, burn rates, BC, penetration, expansion, trajectory etc, along with first person accounts of those who actually used a cartridge. Then I make my choice, use it on game and it works extremely well. I then declare myself a genius of the first order who has discovered a well hidden secret, and look down on lesser mortals.

An astute observer may recognize a number of my brethren here at the Fire. Yeah, we all pretty well know the truth, but ignoring it and acting like we really are geniuses is a whole helluva lot more fun.

So, please don't mess it up for us. We are having a great time!! (grins)

Steve

7X57
Good post, good points!

Royce

I might also point out that I recently obtained a Kimber in .338 Federal. Now, I know this will not kill anything "better" than a bunch of other cartridges, but it packs the most punch in this little rifle (6-1/4 pounds with a 4.75x Weaver Grand Slam). So why not have some fun? Unlike the .338-06 I have never tried one on game....

Which reminds me, in general I have found 2700 fps at the muzzle with about any spitzer more than adquate for 400-yard shooting. So why limit the .338-06 to 350 yards with 200-210 grain bullets?

JB

MD,



Yup!

Just me, but I've always thought the 338 Fed in a light rifle like that Montana would be a great setup at pumping out 185 TSX's at 2,750. So much so, I'd prefer it over the 06 itself.
At least for the sake of having a light/shorter rifle.

What's the 06 going to do better out to 400 yards?

JB makes and excellent point about range and it is one that I wish more would take into consideration (as long as they do their work to be able to utilize it).

Personally, I like the Burris with the BP in it and on my lil G33/40 I have a 3-9 on it and the rifle these days just happens to be chambered in a OKH (ok 338/06...grins).

It is set up to use the Plexes to 530 yds with my 200 NBT load and to 430 with my 250 NPT load. If conditions are favorable I can take game on demand to 500 yds with this old slow bird just as easily as I can with one of rockets.

B4 I got into the world of what I call ranging scopes and that is probably not the right term. By this I mean scopes with turrets/BP's/Premier dots/etc. I would worry about getting all the speed I could possibly get, and many times it was not in a positive manner as I now look back on it. I no longer worry about getting all the extra speed as I use a bit different scope than I used to and of course a LRF all the time.

I can easily take rounds in the 2500-2700 range and get them set to shoot to 500 yds without any big challenge and for me day in and day out that is plenty darn far. As long as I've got enough speed to reliably open up a bullet I don't worry much anymore about the mzl velocity (compared to what I used to, zeesh what a sorry sort I was).

This makes sense to me does it to anyone else?

Make it your best day!

Mark D

+1

I had a great 338-06 that I loved, but Mule Deer's points are all valid.

In the end, I came down on the side of being able to buy ammo at the corner store, no matter the corner in Zim or Bethel, Alaska. I've checked both and they have 338 Win Mag and 30-06, not a box of 338-06.

Since I reload, ammo availabiltiy should not be an issue. However, since I travel outside of the US, it is.

If I had to do it over again, I'd keep the 338-06, and make it a switch barrel with a 270, and never buy another rifle (NOT!)

Mark,

I'm reminded of a certain beer commercial - Brilliant!!

Yes Mark good post and now you know why I don't shoot a 340!

FWIW:

I have long thought that the 185 TSX is the real deal for the 338-06. I figure it could get 2900 FPS, shoot flat penetrate deep, and generally achieve a lot from a lighter, lower recoiling package (which is why a guy goes with the 338-06 over the 338 Win anyway, right?)

OTOH:

If'n a guy wants to sling a big-hunk-o-lead out of a 30-06 sized case, the 9.3x62 seems to be the ticket.

YMMV,

BMT

BMT-if I could of made the 185 TSX to shoot, make no doubt about itI would be using it. I've tried it in my 338/06 my 338 WSM and in my 340 and no doubt about it I did pretty much all I could do to make it work.

I went thru something like 5 or 6 boxes of the darn slugs. And while I could get 2 to go close, I had way too many of one of the three in a group go for a ride on me.

I've no idea why but I can tell you that I gave up on it but not after one whole heck of a lot of try!

I've had just super success getting the TSX to shoot this is the one and only that to date will not for me.

Spose I am just stubborn enough to go for one more try...grins

Now the 210 TSX has shot pretty much in one hole in any 33 that I've tried it in.

Life is just too darn short to be worrying about anything as simple as balistic gack!

Later

Dober

Dober:

Such things make us loonies even loonier.

I was determined to use Factory Second 180 Nosler Partitions in my 30-06. But they would not shoot. 150 TSX go into little bugholes.

The whole idea of having the 30-06 was cheaper shooting, tho'.

So, I am gonna try 180 accubond seconds. maybe I can get them to shoot. I like $14 for 50 rounds a LOT better that $44.

BMT

BMT -I could be wrong on this but it seems to me that once one gets beyond a 223 a 270 and a 375 we go straight to the looney bin...grins

Dober