Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Why Ballistics Gel Works And Caliber Arguments Are Dumb

statistically despite your offer of a land sale in Arizona, the 380 is within about 20% of the 45ACP

My neighbor is an air marshal and was issued a .357 Sig. He has been over to shoot and to even see him on a plane load of people is scary. Now I don't know if it is him or the gun is just not accurate but I hear him shooting up behind me all the time.
I have no axe to grind with the .380 and I just shoot them for fun since any situation serious enough will make use of one of my 1911's. I have a Dan Wesson Patriot and a Colt series 80.
Now the .38 S&W is below my slingshot. I had one in to work on long, long ago. Got it fixed and wanted to test the action. I lived in Cleveland so the best place to shoot was in my old mans car for noise. I stacked a pile of 2X4's on the back floor and shot into them from the front seat. Every single bullet only penetrated half it's depth in the first 2X4.
Now the .45 Colt with a heavy WLN at 1160 FPS penetrated a 16" box elder tree and cut a 1" grape vine in half after and I never found the bullet in the ground.
The old west and Sam Colts SAA might have been the best combination ever. The bad thing was the bad guys also carried them.
Shooting at soaked phone books and paper had the larger calibers like the .475 go 37" while an XTP made only 12". I actually found bullets that penetrated 16" of seasoned oak after going through the paper.
The .44 mag with a 240 XTP made 11" but a 265 RD made 33". A 330 gr went 34" Penetration is sure not lacking with a handgun unless bullets are fast expanding or light.
Long ago shooting a Keith bullet through fenders of a junk car showed it would break into the engine. Some made it to the piston.
I started deer hunting with the .44 and 240 XTP's and recovered all the bullets and deer ran too far with no blood trails. I changed to the WLN LBT and deer went down fast and I never recovered a cast bullet even shot from the chin to tail.

if you get shot in the chest with a 380 and get shot in exactly the same place with a 45ACP you are IIRC about 20% more likely to stop what your doing with the 45ACP. Someone posted the study not too long ago on these forums, now we have this video from one of the biggest manufacturers of ammunition in the world saying about the same thing. It's been difficult for me as well to come to grips with the concept as well that a 240 grain soft point 44 magnum at 1300 FPS is just not that much more effective than a 90 grain 380 at 1000 FPS if they hit the exact same spot on a human target under identical conditions. A 44 or 475 has the momentum to shoot thru a buffalo but for self defense 20 inches of penetration is more than enough and below 2300 or so FPS they ain't that much different.

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If you believe that BS then hunt deer with a 380 and test the 20% theory.

This '20% Theory' says more about human behavior than it does about defense load effectiveness. Most people understand if they catch any bullet in the body between their knees and nose, they will eventually die without emergency.medical attention. This rearranges their priorities toward self-preservation and away from being a predatory azzhole.

Of course there are dead-enders, drug & alcohol anesthetized idiots, determined violent criminals and plain crazy mean bastards.There are also 100+ pound drug-house attack dogs and other two and four legged murder machines, often in multiples. You are going to have to rip their cardiovascular, nervous and skeletal systems apart to stop them. Deer and hogs, while not generally dangerous, have no idea what being shot means and they are going to react to the physical effect, as opposed to the psychological effect of being shot. JWP's statement is correct. Shoot some game and you'll soon learn the value of mastering a handgun with power to spare.

This '20% Theory' says more about human behavior than it does about defense load effectiveness. Most people understand if they catch any bullet in the body between their knees and nose, they will eventually die without emergency.medical attention. This rearranges their priorities toward self-preservation and away from being a predatory azzhole.

Of course there are dead-enders, drug & alcohol anesthetized idiots, determined violent criminals and plain crazy mean bastards.There are also 100+ pound drug-house attack dogs and other two and four legged murder machines, often in multiples. You are going to have to rip their cardiovascular, nervous and skeletal systems apart to stop them. Deer and hogs, while not generally dangerous, have no idea what being shot means and they are going to react to the physical effect, as opposed to the psychological effect of being shot. JWP's statement is correct. Shoot some game and you'll soon learn the value of mastering a handgun with power to spare.

your arguing apples and oranges. You can shoot deeper into a bigger animal with a the 300 grain 44 magnum but average self defense guns would only have to penetrate some cloth and about 20 inches, your pokin a hole .06 inch difference from 380 to 44 mag. For deer a 22 LR solid makes a hole thru the lungs in and out will result in expiration as well as a 380 FMJ or a 44 magnum. I hunt deer with a 90 grain .25, kills the s-hit out of them, but that's apples and oranges too.

And then there's Jerod Reston, I watched his video again last night and while he took a 230 gr 45 slug in the mouth, leg, butt, thigh, elbow, 2 or 3 in his bulletproof vest, he shot back with 180 grain Winchester HP's from his 40 cal Glock. He hit his assailant multiple times including several A zone hits and only stopped the fight by grabbing the guy and shooting him point blank in the head. The entire shooting lasted 35 seconds.

He now carries a 9mm

And for the record, I watched a buddy shoot an aluminum road sign with a 380 and it failed to penetrate. This was with Remington golden Saber bullets. I will never own a 380.

if you get shot in the chest with a 380 and get shot in exactly the same place with a 45ACP you are IIRC about 20% more likely to stop what your doing with the 45ACP. Someone posted the study not too long ago on these forums, now we have this video from one of the biggest manufacturers of ammunition in the world saying about the same thing.