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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,274
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,274 |
Thanks for the well reasoned responses guys! It just seems to me that it’s impossible to obstruct the investigation of a crime that didn’t exist because the KNOWN evidence that was used as the basis for the investigation was KNOWN to be a lie, the allegation of a crime that was wholly and completely fabricated. The fabrication of the lie about a false crime IS in and of itself a crime but we don’t hear much about that. If Mueller was looking through everyone’s bank accounts and social media posts why didn’t he look into the Clinton Foundation? It also seems that it’s impossible to obstruct justice when justice is not being administered. Obstruction has always been a wide net that’s cast when no other charge/s can be levied. It’s a bullshit charge at all levels because it’s used as a catch-all when no crime has been committed. It’s an emotionally based charge in all levels of LE. I’ve seen it used against people when they’re only mistake was being in the wrong place at the wrong time or a well placed insult that bruised an ego was really their only “crime”.
Happy Easter to everyone except Remsen. 😁
Happy Passover Remsen. 👍 Thanks, Aces, and a happy Easter to you (and everyone else who is of the faith).
Eliminate qualified immunity and you'll eliminate cops who act like they are above the law.
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 17,154 Likes: 28
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 17,154 Likes: 28 |
Barr has a lot on his plate right now. Is he a white hat or just another corrupt politician? Will obvious felonious crimes be prosecuted?
If not, we have an indisputable two-tiered justice system. And like me, I suspect most posters here ain't on the "Get Out Of Jail Free" list.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,833 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,833 Likes: 9 |
Look, the whole thing was an obstruction trap from the beginning. They knew, and i mean even if Mueller came into it in good faith, more or less on the first day that there was no collusion. So the whole thing, in addition to being a big fishing expedition, was to leak enough and to poke Trump enough that he would do something stupid and start firing everyone like Nixon did. Then, the Republican Never Trumpers would have had enough cover to go ahead and vote for impeachment.
I think as they got into it and realized how clean Trump was in his personal dealings that provoking him into some overt acts that they could scream obstruction about and use to impeach him became THE priority and the only goal. I have to say that Trump was really well advised in this process. They did a good job.
Last edited by JoeBob; 04/21/19.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
I have to say that Trump was really well advised in this process. Yeah, 1: Move embassy to Jerusalem 2: Recognize the Golan Heights as Israeli property 3: No wall 4: Leave troops in Syria 5: Turn up the heat on Iran End of investigation.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,546 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,546 Likes: 2 |
Why wouldn’t the FOTPT doctrine apply to the obstruction of justice accusations? If the democraps made up the collusion allegations, which we now know they did, why wouldn’t that doctrine apply in full force? How can one obstruct “justice” when that justice is based upon lies and false allegations? Why aren’t the dirtbags that proffered those lies in the fake dossier being investigated and charged with obstruction? They did more to obstruct justice and tied the hands of at least 2 branches of government for 2 years while this investigation into unadulterated bullshit took place. Every swinging dick that clogged the airways with their lies should face charges of putting public false allegations and outright lies.....then hung until they’re dead. Do you think it could a possibility that the whole Mueller Investigations into Hillary and the Cabal's Russian Collusion was actually setup by Trump as a distraction for the DNC and the Media. No real 2020 focus by the DNC until now, plus you get investigations into area's no one wants them looking at and all by their own people. That in turn gives us a full page of redacted names (page 447......D5), redacted because the investigations are still ongoing. Just a thought for you.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10 |
I think the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine WOULD apply if the case were being heard in a court. What is going on here, though, is that Mueller strategically chose to not make a finding that would have led to criminal charges. Instead, he wrote a report that will be used by the Democrats to impeach in the House and that is not a judicial proceeding, it's a legislative proceeding. I'm not an expert on these things, but I believe Congress creates its own rules for an impeachment proceeding, and only if they choose to include the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine would it apply. And you can bet that the Democrats will NOT include this in the House proceedings. Just remember, the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine is a judicial remedy for illegally obtained evidence. With a great big exception called inevitable discovery. Not exactly cut and dried. Depends very much on the facts of the instant case. Correct. President Trump has not been charged with a crime, therefore the FOTPT doctrine, or any other judicial doctrine/remedy does not apply. If Donald J Trump were criminal charged then theses points may or may not apply, but with out any criminal indictment there can be no remedy.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091 |
Alien justice for none.
Last edited by mtnsnake; 04/22/19.
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