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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 163
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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To further Mr. Redgwell's point. I have always found this article fascinating and it reiterates the point that all three elements (equipment, shooter, loads) need to be right. When they are near perfect the results are amazing. https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013...house-lessons-in-extreme-rifle-accuracy/
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,128
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
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All of my "keeper" hunting rifles eventually shot their "most accurate loads" into 300 yard 5 shot groups of about 2 1/2". This is with hunting scopes topping out no more than 10x with hunting reticles .
I've noticed the .308 Win. & .300 WSM have been easier to get there by shooting more combinations well, as compared with my other chamberings seeming to be more particular and liking fewer loads.
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Joined: Jan 2019
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Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
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300 WSM is another one I've had good luck with personaly. The two rounds are kind of similar...coincidence?
GOD Bless America
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,446
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,446 |
Some years back, a rifle company ad stated, "Accuracy isn't magical. It's made!" I believe that to be true.
It's a combination of things. The Shooter's Triangle. A trained, talented shooter. A properly put together rifle. Uniform loads.
When someone says only use custom bullets, Lapua cases and match primers, well, they may help, but it doesn't stop there. The mechanism has to be perfect. The operator, trained. It doesn't hurt for him to be a natural talent. Everything works together. If one of the three sides fail, it's doubtful that you will attain what you want - a record buck, or a record group.
Everything has to work together. I gave a .308 Remington Model 700 to my nephew's thirteen year old daughter. I couldn't quite get it to shoot as well as I expected a .308 to shoot even with Lapua brass, Varget and good bullets. My nephew said that his daughter put the first three shots into a dime the first time she shot it. He declined to shoot the rifle after her because he did not want to be embarrassed. What did I learn from this? You won't learn how well a light rifle can shoot by having me shoot it. I am still OK with a heavier one but I won't shoot it to its potential either.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,317 Likes: 18
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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On the other hand, I've shot plenty of tiny 3-shot groups that I couldn't duplicate later. Which is a roundabout way of saying, 3-shot groups don't mean much, on their own.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,254 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,254 Likes: 35 |
Exactly--unless you can replicate them several times. In my experience that's rare, but not impossible. It depends both on other stuff--but in my experience mostly the bullet. Using a Juenke machine for a couple of years showed how much bullet "balance" affects consistent accuracy.
Among other experiments, a Ruger No. 1 .25-06 (NOT a varmint model, but a sporter-weight 1AB) shot four consecutive 3-shot groups in the 3/8th" range with 75-grain Hornady V-Maxes. That seemed a little too consistent for a happy accident, and on the Juenke that particular batch of bullets turned out to be as consistent as most match bullets--and more consistent than some.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,759 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,759 Likes: 7 |
Some years back, a rifle company ad stated, "Accuracy isn't magical. It's made!" I believe that to be true.
It's a combination of things. The Shooter's Triangle. A trained, talented shooter. A properly put together rifle. Uniform loads.
When someone says only use custom bullets, Lapua cases and match primers, well, they may help, but it doesn't stop there. The mechanism has to be perfect. The operator, trained. It doesn't hurt for him to be a natural talent. Everything works together. If one of the three sides fail, it's doubtful that you will attain what you want - a record buck, or a record group.
Everything has to work together. I gave a .308 Remington Model 700 to my nephew's thirteen year old daughter. I couldn't quite get it to shoot as well as I expected a .308 to shoot even with Lapua brass, Varget and good bullets. My nephew said that his daughter put the first three shots into a dime the first time she shot it. He declined to shoot the rifle after her because he did not want to be embarrassed. What did I learn from this? You won't learn how well a light rifle can shoot by having me shoot it. I am still OK with a heavier one but I won't shoot it to its potential either. No worries. You are not alone. Almost everyone is in the same boat. Are you having fun?
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,431 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
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That makes it hard to eliminate the null hypothesis with tests
Mr. Clark: How about in 'laymen terms' ? Jerry Cannot eliminate the null hypothesis means cannot tell if what I am testing for has any effect at all. Mother makes a sauce with 10 spices. She gives Bob a taste with and without the last ingredient. Bob cannot tell the difference. Mother lets Alice taste with and without the 10th ingredient and Alice can tell the difference and says the 10th ingredient makes it taste better. Bob as an instrument cannot resolve the difference. Alice is more sensitive and can resolve the difference. Clark goes to the range with a 30-06 and a 308 and they both shot 1.5" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Bart goes to the range with a 30-06 and a 308 and the 30-06 shoots a 5" 20 shot group at 800 yards and the 308 shot a 3.25" 20 shot group at 800 yards.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Okay Mr. Clark
IOW -- there are ABSOLUTES that are not fully absolute ??
? there is always the possibility of SOMETHING altering the obvious answer ?
Sounds similar. TASTE buds are -/ can be diff and the REAL diff is only MINOR!. The IN your last ex SHOOTERS are not all the SAME. Let BOTH shoot at same distance. Variable. Thanks Jerry
Last edited by jwall; 05/15/19.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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