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To further Mr. Redgwell's point. I have always found this article fascinating and it reiterates the point that all three elements (equipment, shooter, loads) need to be right. When they are near perfect the results are amazing.

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013...house-lessons-in-extreme-rifle-accuracy/

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All of my "keeper" hunting rifles eventually shot their "most accurate loads" into 300 yard 5 shot groups of about 2 1/2". This is with hunting scopes topping out no more than 10x with hunting reticles .

I've noticed the .308 Win. & .300 WSM have been easier to get there by shooting more combinations well, as compared with my other chamberings seeming to be more particular and liking fewer loads.

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300 WSM is another one I've had good luck with personaly. The two rounds are kind of similar...coincidence?


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Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
Some years back, a rifle company ad stated, "Accuracy isn't magical. It's made!" I believe that to be true.

It's a combination of things. The Shooter's Triangle. A trained, talented shooter. A properly put together rifle. Uniform loads.

When someone says only use custom bullets, Lapua cases and match primers, well, they may help, but it doesn't stop there. The mechanism has to be perfect. The operator, trained. It doesn't hurt for him to be a natural talent. Everything works together. If one of the three sides fail, it's doubtful that you will attain what you want - a record buck, or a record group.

Everything has to work together.


I gave a .308 Remington Model 700 to my nephew's thirteen year old daughter. I couldn't quite get it to shoot as well as I expected a .308 to shoot even with Lapua brass, Varget and good bullets. My nephew said that his daughter put the first three shots into a dime the first time she shot it. He declined to shoot the rifle after her because he did not want to be embarrassed. What did I learn from this? You won't learn how well a light rifle can shoot by having me shoot it. I am still OK with a heavier one but I won't shoot it to its potential either.

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On the other hand, I've shot plenty of tiny 3-shot groups that I couldn't duplicate later. Which is a roundabout way of saying, 3-shot groups don't mean much, on their own.



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Exactly--unless you can replicate them several times. In my experience that's rare, but not impossible. It depends both on other stuff--but in my experience mostly the bullet. Using a Juenke machine for a couple of years showed how much bullet "balance" affects consistent accuracy.

Among other experiments, a Ruger No. 1 .25-06 (NOT a varmint model, but a sporter-weight 1AB) shot four consecutive 3-shot groups in the 3/8th" range with 75-grain Hornady V-Maxes. That seemed a little too consistent for a happy accident, and on the Juenke that particular batch of bullets turned out to be as consistent as most match bullets--and more consistent than some.


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Originally Posted by GrimJim
Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
Some years back, a rifle company ad stated, "Accuracy isn't magical. It's made!" I believe that to be true.

It's a combination of things. The Shooter's Triangle. A trained, talented shooter. A properly put together rifle. Uniform loads.

When someone says only use custom bullets, Lapua cases and match primers, well, they may help, but it doesn't stop there. The mechanism has to be perfect. The operator, trained. It doesn't hurt for him to be a natural talent. Everything works together. If one of the three sides fail, it's doubtful that you will attain what you want - a record buck, or a record group.

Everything has to work together.


I gave a .308 Remington Model 700 to my nephew's thirteen year old daughter. I couldn't quite get it to shoot as well as I expected a .308 to shoot even with Lapua brass, Varget and good bullets. My nephew said that his daughter put the first three shots into a dime the first time she shot it. He declined to shoot the rifle after her because he did not want to be embarrassed. What did I learn from this? You won't learn how well a light rifle can shoot by having me shoot it. I am still OK with a heavier one but I won't shoot it to its potential either.



No worries. You are not alone. Almost everyone is in the same boat. Are you having fun? smile


Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

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Originally Posted by jwall
Originally Posted by Clarkm

That makes it hard to eliminate the null hypothesis with tests


Mr. Clark:
How about in 'laymen terms' ?
Jerry


Cannot eliminate the null hypothesis means cannot tell if what I am testing for has any effect at all.

Mother makes a sauce with 10 spices. She gives Bob a taste with and without the last ingredient.
Bob cannot tell the difference.

Mother lets Alice taste with and without the 10th ingredient and Alice can tell the difference and says the 10th ingredient makes it taste better.

Bob as an instrument cannot resolve the difference.
Alice is more sensitive and can resolve the difference.

Clark goes to the range with a 30-06 and a 308 and they both shot 1.5" 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
Bart goes to the range with a 30-06 and a 308 and the 30-06 shoots a 5" 20 shot group at 800 yards and the 308 shot a 3.25" 20 shot group at 800 yards.




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Okay Mr. Clark

Originally Posted by jwall


IOW -- there are ABSOLUTES that are not fully absolute ??

? there is always the possibility of SOMETHING altering the obvious answer ?


Sounds similar. TASTE buds are -/ can be diff and the REAL diff is only MINOR!.
The

IN your last ex SHOOTERS are not all the SAME.

Let BOTH shoot at same distance. Variable.

Thanks

Jerry

Last edited by jwall; 05/15/19.

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