Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters .356 Winchester

What is the best rip roaring rootin tootin big critter killing load for the .356 Winchester. I'm talking 200 yards on a broad side moose and 30 feet on a big pissed off brown bear a coming on fast! Also would like suggestions for some lighter hard cast bullets. I believe the Mod. 94 Win. has a 1-12 twist. Any one have a favorite powder and any one use one on any critters bigger then deer?

Winchester used to offer a 250 grain Power Point load which was pretty good. I'd try to mimic that one.

Tag

I used to shoot a .356, it is a challenge to find heavy bullets that are suitable, they require deep seating, must have a cannelure and must have a flat point. The best I was able to come up with is the Speer 220 gr. Hot Cor, using Speer data 49.5gr. of Win 748. Used that load with full satisfaction for moose and elk at 15-250 yards.

The 220 Speer bullet is a good one. I'd work up a load with it. They tend to have a good balance of penetration, expansion and accuracy with a great b.c. for a FN.

I was enamored with the idea of the .356 for a time. My idea before overcoming this affliction was to file 250gr noslers to a flat point. I don’t see why such wouldn’t work.

I've been using the 356win for many years, use factory ammo for deer hunting and 250gr Kodiaks for larger game or deer when hunting in brown bear country.

Both the Hawk Flat point and Woodleigh round nose might be an option. I would trust either for the scenarios you described but have not used them in 35 caliber. You would need to use a taper crimp or have a cannelure made to roll crimp these. Corbon and others have inexpensive cannelure makers if you want to go to the trouble of making your own. The Kodiaks are similar and a good option. Others have claimed they were not accurate but I have not found this to be an issue. Terminal performance is great similar to the Bitter Root bonded core bullets. If I were deer hunting on Kodiak I would feel more comfortable with a Kodiak bullet in the chamber.

My oldest son has one in the 94 XTR. It has beautiful wood, by the way. I load it for him. He's taken bear, deer and chucks with it. The first animal was a huge 400 lb whitetail buck out of central New Brunswick. That was in using a factory load. Sometime after that I started putting loads together for that rifle.

As a store- bought common bullet, I'd recommend the 220gr Speer. But I also loaded some of the 250gr Speer SP HotCors by clipping off the lead point. They ended up weighing about 247 grs. He took that load moose hunting but didn't find a moose to use it on. A cannelure isn't needed if the load is compressed and the neck tension on the bullet is adequate. They were moving out at close to 2200 fps. The 220 load was well over 2300 fps.

It's a very practical rifle for woods hunting of large game and can be effective to 200 yds or so.

I also put together some light bullet loads (bullets for the .357 Magnum) for chuck hunting. On chuck he shot dropped so fast in tall grass that we temporarily lost sight of it. But a piece went flying straight up for about 6 feet. We didn't know what part of the critter but it helped in locating it. Guess what? It was its tail! He never hit the tail as the bullet hole was in the chest, but the impact was such that the tail broke off at the root and flew straight up for 6 or 7 feet! Good varmint rifle too.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

One alternative would be 225-grain Nosler Partitions with the lead tip filed flat. They'd probably end up around 215 grains, and would penetrate AND expand reliably, due to the soft front core.

I have used 210 Partitions with the tip filed flat in my .33 Winchester. They end up weighing just about exactly 200 grains when filed to the front edge of the jacket, shoot very well, and expand nicely.

I wish you had put this in the lever actions or reloading forums.
My father and brother lived in Fairbanks for a few years. They were both .35 caliber hunters using the .35 Whelen and .350 Remington Magnum quite a bit.
When blueberry picking and fishing Dad carried the Winchester Big Bore in .356 and my brother favored the Savage 99 in .358. The bears would sometimes get close but fortunately they never had an up close and personal encounter with one. The closest encounters came when caribou hunting. Bears have learned to the sound of the shot. We had many discussions about bullet weight and compared the .35’s to the .45-70 quite often.

In our 20” .356 Winchester rifles the 250 grain .356 Winchester factory load chronographed 1,997fps.
We shot some older Silvertip .358 Winchester loads single shot in the Model 94 Big Bore and the 250 grain load chronographed 2,040fps.
Beartooth Bullets has a 210 grain LBT style bullet which will approach 2,400fps when pushed by 40.0 grains of Hodgdon 4198. With the wide meplat LBT style bullets you need to ensure they will easilymake the turn from the loading gate into the magazine.
The best we can do with the 220 grain Speer bullet in the 20” Winchester is 2,365fps using 40.0 grains of Hodgdon Varget. This is a good load in our rifles.
39.0 grains of Hodgdon 4198 will push the 220 grain Speer bullet 2,364fps from the 20” barrel.

Dad insisted nothing lighter than the 220 grain Speer or the 210 grain LBT bullet was adequate for bear up close. The .35 Winchester pushing the 250 grain bullet to 2,200fps was considered adequate for bear in Alaska pre 1920’s. Townsend Whelen put the .35 Winchester in the large animal category as did Warren H. Miller. Miller used more modern cartridges but liked the .35 Winchester and the 1895 Winchester for his primary hunting arm.
As no thread is fun without a picture here are two

Great picture. I have a 35 Whelen and for a while had a 356. I took one mule deer doe with it and a Speer 220 grain. It worked well. I wouldn't mind adding a 95 in 35 Win to the group.

The 350 Rem Mag cartridge in the photo should be good for another couple of reloads...

Dang, those cartridges look wonderful to me in that picture and thanks for sharing. For along time I have felt a .35 caliber Marlin 336 or Winchester 94 giving true .358 Winchester ballistics with a 220 grain bullet would be a very useful big game round capable of taking any critter out to 200 yards and big bears out to 100-150 yards. That would cover 90% of the shots in Alaska. I have a very good octagon barreled Marlin 45-70 and it is a comfort on hikes here in Alaska and I know it is capable of killing any thing. But, I wanted a .35, heck I want a 45-70 necked to .411 too.

I am ordering a bunch of 220 grain Speer Flat Nosed bullets and I also have Alaska Bullet works making me up some of their heavy jacketed super bonded 250 grain bullets. When I talked to the guy the other day I mentioned I was concerned about his bullets expanding at .356 impact velocities. He told me his bullets jackets are .025 thick at the nose and taper down to .050 thickness at the heal and should work ok out to 200 yards or so. When they arrive I will hack saw one down from top to bottom and check them out and do the same thing with the 220 grain Speers.

If Nosler made a 225 grain flat nose Partition I would use them and forget about other bullets, other then cast for lighter loads.

Hey, William iorg,
Can a moderator move this thread to another forum if that would be a better place for it?

I've had good luck with Ramshot Xterminator in my 356 with lighter bullets, 180-200s. It gave me good velocity and accuracy in my '94. I also asked about TAC and was told Xterminator was already compressed, so with TAC being slower, it would result in lower velocities:

Caliber: .356 Winchester
Barrel length: 24”
Powder: Ramshot- X-TERMINATOR®.
Bullet weight: 180 grains.
Start load: 43.6 grains (2400 – 2500 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 48.5 grains (2675 - 2775 Ft/p/sec).LD ca 106%
Bullet weight: 200 grains.
Start load: 41.0 grains (2200 – 2300 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 45.5 grains (2500 – 2600 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 105%.
Bullet weight: 220 grains.
Start load: 39.2 grains (2175 – 2275 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 43.5 grains (2400 – 2500 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 104%.
Bullet weight: 250 grains.
Start load: 37.4 grains (2050 – 2125 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 41.5 grains (2300 – 2375 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 103%.

I have seen good results with my .356, and it has not required me to step on the gas when loading for it. Speer and Varget is a pretty solid combo.

The Winchester factory 250gr loading (discontinued) flat out hammers stuff. They need to partner with Nosler to put a well designed Partition premium line loading into production. A 250gr flat nose in quality brass would have UPS drivers sweating deliveries.

I think Hornady did some work with the .307 recently. Often wondered why the .356 was not included.

You can use a Lee factory crimp tool and you do not need a cannelure to use it.

I load the 180 grain Speer FP for deer and the 220 grain Speer FP for everything bigger/tougher than deer in my 356 WIN, a Marlin 336 SD rechambered from 35 REM.

MD's suggestion about the 225 grain Partitions sounds something worth trying if you don't think that the 220 grain Speer FP is tough enough for your needs.

The cartridge, the rifles and the shooting are so much fun to discuss the thread is best when you post it where the levergunners will see it. Start another thread when your bullets come in.
Our West Texas deer and pigs are light bodied and the stout bullets do not deliver enough shock as they pass through. The lighter weight bullets seem to deliver more knock down than the heavier bullets.
When it comes to cast bullets and the Winchester Big Bore Model 94 the RCBS 200 grain gas check bullet seems to fit all of the rifles. The bullet, seated to the crimp groove, feeds well and fills the short throat to minimize gas cutting. You can drive the RCBS bullet pretty much at full speed and at reduced velocity with good results.
The Ranch Dog 195 grain bullet is another cast bullet that fits the rifle.
The Lyman and the NEI 190 grain bullets shoot very well at velocities under 1.700 fps or so. The NEI bullet will shoot with hunting loads but has given us better accuracy at lower velocity.

Anyway, as a starter don’t overlook the 200gr RCBS GC bullet.

Lyman 358430 & NEI #161A

I've used the trick of filing the lead tip off Partitions for tube magazine lever-actions from the .25-35 to .33 WCF, going back to before Nosler actually started making a 170-grain roundnose Partition for the .30-30. They have always shot and expanded well. (In fact the 120 .25 Partition filed back results in a 117-grain flatnose!)

Just tried it with a 225 .35 Partition. Filed down to the jacket, it resulted in a 220-grain flatnose--but you can also file them even down into the jacket if you want a wider flatnose. It's easier, however, to maintain a consistent weight by stopping at the jacket.