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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,648 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,648 Likes: 1 |
I am thinkin blackheart needs to be dropped into the middle of the river of no return or the Bob Marshall and he will have a new understanding......  Blackheart is a classic ankle biter.... Ignorance is bliss, especially on the internet....
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
What ever happened with the US optics you bought Fred? No love? Saw a pic of it but don't recall you mentioning what you thought about it POS traded it off for a Nightforce. Will never make that mistake again.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
Longevity with any scope is probably greatly increased if you don't throw it down mountainsides, toss it out of treestands, dive into fox holes and and use it to break your fall while your clumsy ass tumbles down a hillside. Likewise if you don't shoot 700 rounds through your lightweight .300 Win. mag. every time you go to the range. Who the fugg needs that much practice anyway ? If you do you probably just suck and aught to take up ping pong. Either that or learn how to actually hunt and get close before you shoot, rather than relying on the technology of your 2500 yard laser rangefinder and super duper, foolproof, tumble proof, dial a mile scope and .850 BC bullets to make up for your lack of stalking skill and laziness. Where the fugg does "fair chase" come into the equation these days anyway ? Is there any limit to how far you can go before it's just killing ? Crypes I bet some of these guys can't wait to get their hands on an electronic pulse phaser that will shoot over, around and through mountains to kill game 5 miles away that's only visible through their heat signature seeking, x-ray vision super scope. Stalk this....Laffin 😎 ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/25RTwWWV/8-E58-FEBC-DABB-487-A-AC3-F-C9-B133429-D5-D.jpg) Ya that’s step as fûck just about got a nose bleed looking down.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
Stalk this....Laffin 😎 [/quote] Looks like my training mountain but mine has rattlesnakes.......grin... [/quote] Oh jud best get to stair mastering his heart out then. PS I heard he bit a rattlesnake and it died instantly. 😎
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,340 |
Are Blackheart and Stick related?
Don't roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,177 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,177 Likes: 3 |
Are Blackheart and Stick related? Blackheart and Deflave I think
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,528 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,528 Likes: 2 |
Longevity with any scope is probably greatly increased if you don't throw it down mountainsides, toss it out of treestands, dive into fox holes and and use it to break your fall while your clumsy ass tumbles down a hillside. Likewise if you don't shoot 700 rounds through your lightweight .300 Win. mag. every time you go to the range. Who the fugg needs that much practice anyway ? If you do you probably just suck and aught to take up ping pong. Either that or learn how to actually hunt and get close before you shoot, rather than relying on the technology of your 2500 yard laser rangefinder and super duper, foolproof, tumble proof, dial a mile scope and .850 BC bullets to make up for your lack of stalking skill and laziness. Where the fugg does "fair chase" come into the equation these days anyway ? Is there any limit to how far you can go before it's just killing ? Crypes I bet some of these guys can't wait to get their hands on an electronic pulse phaser that will shoot over, around and through mountains to kill game 5 miles away that's only visible through their heat signature seeking, x-ray vision super scope. Dumbest post of the week..... If you gut shoot a buck at 250, because the zero retention of your scope sucks...... is that still “fair chase”? I have to agree that it's at least in contention... When it comes right down to it, the objective of hunting is to kill. There are various reasons that people hunt, and certainly most of us enjoy hunting for a lot more than just the killing, but at the end of the day if you remove killing from the hunt, you're left with sight-seeing, hiking, and photography. The original, primal reason for man to hunt was to make a kill and then make use of the meat, hide, bones, etc. Not much has changed. On top of the fact that shifting zeros affect shots taken at all ranges, the whole notion of "short range is better than long range" is short-sighted (pun be intended). To intentionally limit oneself by using inferior gear or choosing not to practice and be proficient, is silly IMO. Obviously this means different things in different locales. My objective when I hunt is to successfully make a kill. Of course I enjoy the journey, but my purpose when I leave the house is to come home with a dead critter. I use the most reliable and effective gear that I can, and practice as much as possible to be proficient with that gear. To say that a guy practices too much, or is too proficient with his rifle, is laughable. I want to be prepared to capitalize on any and all opportunities that I'm presented with while hunting. To suggest that becoming effective at hitting targets at long range requires that the hunter know nothing about "hunting" or stalking, is ridiculous. I've killed big-game animals from point blank range to ~950 yards, and everywhere in between. The last two that I killed were called in to ~35 yards before squeezing the trigger, and spotted and stalked to within ~25 yards. But if the next opportunity is best taken at 500 or 600 yards, you can bet that I'll be ready. I know I'm not alone in this approach. Unfortunately, compared to more robust options, Leupold scopes increase the risk of gear failure, and make proficiency more difficult to attain, due to the company refusing to update the erector design to something that is mechanically reliable and robust. Out of habit formed over many years, I check zero on each of my rifles before getting to practicing positional shooting. This used to be a necessity due to POI shifts that I would experience with my Leup scopes on occasion between range sessions. These days it's just something that I do because of habit, since my LRHS, DMRII Pro, SWFA SS, etc, scopes always return to zero and stay exactly where I left them. Comments such as those made by Blackheart above are typically made by people that sub-consciously recognize their own deficiency or limitations, and have to justify to themselves, by whatever flawed logic necessary, that there is no deficiency at all. It's hard to recognize and accept our limitations, and is far easier to criticize those who don't share them.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3 |
[ Stalk this....Laffin 😎 [/quote] Hate to admit the two elk before my last one came out of a canyon like that and the easiest way out was up. Shot from across the canyon and I guarantee there wasn't going to be any "getting closer" on either of them like people seem to think who have never hunted this stuff before. Thank goodness I had some young help packing out those days... I think the hardest country I ever hunted though was the brush choked coast range near the Trask River and a couple years I hunted Snake River above Imnaha. Some of the most beautiful country you will ever see, but it will kill you if you're not paying attention- and that is just the drive in....  Bob
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3 |
Longevity with any scope is probably greatly increased if you don't throw it down mountainsides, toss it out of treestands, dive into fox holes and and use it to break your fall while your clumsy ass tumbles down a hillside. Likewise if you don't shoot 700 rounds through your lightweight .300 Win. mag. every time you go to the range. Who the fugg needs that much practice anyway ? If you do you probably just suck and aught to take up ping pong. Either that or learn how to actually hunt and get close before you shoot, rather than relying on the technology of your 2500 yard laser rangefinder and super duper, foolproof, tumble proof, dial a mile scope and .850 BC bullets to make up for your lack of stalking skill and laziness. Where the fugg does "fair chase" come into the equation these days anyway ? Is there any limit to how far you can go before it's just killing ? Crypes I bet some of these guys can't wait to get their hands on an electronic pulse phaser that will shoot over, around and through mountains to kill game 5 miles away that's only visible through their heat signature seeking, x-ray vision super scope. Dumbest post of the week..... If you gut shoot a buck at 250, because the zero retention of your scope sucks...... is that still “fair chase”? I have to agree that it's at least in contention... When it comes right down to it, the objective of hunting is to kill. There are various reasons that people hunt, and certainly most of us enjoy hunting for a lot more than just the killing, but at the end of the day if you remove killing from the hunt, you're left with sight-seeing, hiking, and photography. The original, primal reason for man to hunt was to make a kill and then make use of the meat, hide, bones, etc. Not much has changed. On top of the fact that shifting zeros affect shots taken at all ranges, the whole notion of "short range is better than long range" is short-sighted (pun be intended). To intentionally limit oneself by using inferior gear or choosing not to practice and be proficient, is silly IMO. Obviously this means different things in different locales. My objective when I hunt is to successfully make a kill. Of course I enjoy the journey, but my purpose when I leave the house is to come home with a dead critter. I use the most reliable and effective gear that I can, and practice as much as possible to be proficient with that gear. To say that a guy practices too much, or is too proficient with his rifle, is laughable. I want to be prepared to capitalize on any and all opportunities that I'm presented with while hunting. To suggest that becoming effective at hitting targets at long range requires that the hunter know nothing about "hunting" or stalking, is ridiculous. I've killed big-game animals from point blank range to ~950 yards, and everywhere in between. The last two that I killed were called in to ~35 yards before squeezing the trigger, and spotted and stalked to within ~25 yards. But if the next opportunity is best taken at 500 or 600 yards, you can bet that I'll be ready. I know I'm not alone in this approach. Unfortunately, compared to more robust options, Leupold scopes increase the risk of gear failure, and make proficiency more difficult to attain, due to the company refusing to update the erector design to something that is mechanically reliable and robust. Out of habit formed over many years, I check zero on each of my rifles before getting to practicing positional shooting. This used to be a necessity due to POI shifts that I would experience with my Leup scopes on occasion between range sessions. These days it's just something that I do because of habit, since my LRHS, DMRII Pro, SWFA SS, etc, scopes always return to zero and stay exactly where I left them. Comments such as those made by Blackheart above are typically made by people that sub-consciously recognize their own deficiency or limitations, and have to justify to themselves, by whatever flawed logic necessary, that there is no deficiency at all. It's hard to recognize and accept our limitations, and is far easier to criticize those who don't share them. Good post- I will gladly take all the close shots that present themselves and I have. But I am also prepared to shoot where the shot presents itself within MY ethical limit, which changes by the day, conditions, how hard I've been hiking/breathing, etc... To most people, it should be obvious that is the reason we practice a lot and check and double check our equipment constantly..... Bob
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,248 Likes: 21
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,248 Likes: 21 |
Sorry, Blackheart. While I respect your experience, I've fished and hunted in your "wilderness." While the Catskills and, especially, Adirondacks are far wilder than many outdoorsmen from the West would believe, but they do NOT compare. My medium-sized Montana county alone (out of 56 counties in the state) is as large as the Catskills Forest Preserve, and the rise from the bottom of the valley to the highest peak is more than the elevation of the highest peaks in either the Catskills or Adirondacks above sea level. Only about 6000 people live in the entire county, and there are nine species of big game animals, existing from the (just as thick as the Adirondacks) riverbottoms and north-slope mountain ridges to above timberline. If you have never hunted out here (and this is by no means the wildest part of the wild west) then you have no comprehension of what the country is like.
I also know this not just because of my experience in both places, but because my wife is originally from New York, and her brother (who fancied himself a real wilderness adventurer because he'd done so much hiking and canoeing in the Adirondacks) was blown away when he visited out here the first time. As are a lot of people I've hosted from the East. Shhhhhhh..grin.. He lives and posts in a bubble. Don't burst it John! There's that Mule Deer guy, once again making sense and posting reality instead of dreams. Having lived in parts of both coasts I have absolutely no problem agreeing with John. What I was told, and were passed off as, "mountains" back east amounted to no more than hills where I grew up in sunny SoCal even. There's no matching them to the Sierras, Cascades, Rockies, or even our little Warner's here. Leupold scopes, I don't hunt them often enough to comment. I think the only one I have is close to 50 Years old now, a "pioneer" if I recall correctly. Still seems to hit the target when I shoot the old Marlin Mod 62. Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,429
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,429 |
What the flaw in the Leupold erector attributed to?
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313 |
Ten years ago Leupold scope were considered durable and useful. Now those same scopes, forget later problems that may exist, are supposedly useless. The scopes are not what has changed.
Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?"
Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?"
Deer are somewhere all the time
To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
What the flaw in the Leupold erector attributed to?
Ten years ago Leupold scope were considered durable and useful. Now those same scopes, forget later problems that may exist, are supposedly useless. The scopes are not what has changed. Parts QC and out sourcing. OH And big box store clients like Cabelas, sportsman, ect pressuring for better margins. Only way to make them cheaper is to give on the quality end. Leupold caved to the pressure of the giant middle men.
Last edited by fredIII; 05/21/19.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,288
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,288 |
Owned many Leupolds over the past 40 years. . Quite a few were sent back and the usual repair was erector spring.
Leupold witched to twin erector springs in selected models in 2009
VX-3s, VX-3Ls VX-R and all tacticals Have the twin spring erectors
Rifleman, VX-1 and VX-2 DO NOT HAVE TWIN SPRINGS
You can send in any VX-III, VX-3 for an upgrade.
Had two Leupold scopes fail me during or just before a big game hunt. First one, a VX-3 broke an erector spring (single spring). Second one a VX-3 LR 4.5-14 x 50 with M1 turrets (which had double springs) suddenly stopped moving POI as selected. Called Leupold and got the "twist the knob lock to lock four times to distribute the grease". It was pulled from rifle, used a different rifle to finish the hunt. Later when I had time I did the lock to lock adjustments and it worked again. Played with it for a while on a target only gun then sold it.
Replaced all Leupolds but one which is on a 6 BR. Won't place a Leupold on a big game rifle ever again.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Are Blackheart and Stick related? Emphatic No, Stick knows what he is talking about.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
I believe zero retention is a strength of Leupold’s especially for non dialers.
If a scope cannot retain zero turning the adjustments multiple times what makes you think it will hold adjustments after it is sighted in. Have you looked at a turret mechanism and see how it operates?
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Longevity with any scope is probably greatly increased if you don't throw it down mountainsides, toss it out of treestands, dive into fox holes and and use it to break your fall while your clumsy ass tumbles down a hillside. Likewise if you don't shoot 700 rounds through your lightweight .300 Win. mag. every time you go to the range. Who the fugg needs that much practice anyway ? If you do you probably just suck and aught to take up ping pong. Either that or learn how to actually hunt and get close before you shoot, rather than relying on the technology of your 2500 yard laser rangefinder and super duper, foolproof, tumble proof, dial a mile scope and .850 BC bullets to make up for your lack of stalking skill and laziness. Where the fugg does "fair chase" come into the equation these days anyway ? Is there any limit to how far you can go before it's just killing ? Crypes I bet some of these guys can't wait to get their hands on an electronic pulse phaser that will shoot over, around and through mountains to kill game 5 miles away that's only visible through their heat signature seeking, x-ray vision super scope. Stalk this....Laffin 😎 That is trick photography, camera angle gets you all the time itis really flat ground..  In the Catskills one must dodge housing developments and such , they can be quite hazardous
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,478
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,478 |
Ten years ago Leupold scope were considered durable and useful. Now those same scopes, forget later problems that may exist, are supposedly useless. The scopes are not what has changed. Ten years ago I was twisting the turrets on 2 Leopolds and having errector problems at between 250 and 300 rounds....
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,956 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,956 Likes: 3 |
In the 60’s & 70’s Leupolds was a good option, the problem is everyone else has improved their scopes but Leupold has not.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,107 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,107 Likes: 6 |
I am thinkin blackheart needs to be dropped into the middle of the river of no return or the Bob Marshall and he will have a new understanding...... I'm thinking he was dropped in. Landed on his head, that's the simplest explanation.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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