Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Grouse and Grizzly combination

I wasn�t quit sure which forum to post this question on but decided that participants on the Alaska forum would probably have the greatest experience to draw on.

I like to do a bit of grouse hunting in Northern Idaho, the spot I hunt most is right on the Canadian border, home to a few grizzly bears, black bears, mountain lions, wolves, moose, etc..

Last year I was hunting a draw following a nice little creek, there were thick aspens on one side of the creek and more open with mature trees on the other side of the creek. My dog and I hunted for a couple of miles, took a couple blue grouse and then Bubber (my German Wirehair) started acting funny. He was staying close to me and holding his nose straight up in the air and sniffing kinda different than normal, he was looking behind us and finally just stopped and was watching our trail. I got spooked and decided to turn around and start back.

About fifty yards back down the trail where the aspen were real thick and close to the creek, there lay a rather large steaming pile of Bear poop. Now that I was paying attention, I also noticed that there were some good size bear tracks following and directly on top of my own prints I made walking in. Right at that spot they turned off and went into the aspen along the side of the trail. I hadn't heard a sound.

I always carry a couple of slugs, for my 20 gauge, in my pocket so I slipped those in to my gun and Bubber and I made an orderly retreat back to the truck trying to look in every direction at the same time. The bear tracks had started about a quarter mile after I started walking in from the car, so he was with me for a while.

Now from my track and scat identification book, these tracks were made by a grizzly not a black bear, which has given me the impetus to consider seriously what I would do if charged. I probably wouldn�t have time to open my shotgun and change ammo, so that leaves a handgun of some type. I bought one of the Smith 460 Mags, and it is a nice accurate gun, but it weighs too much for me to carry when grouse hunting. I am carrying water, a medical kit and biscuits for the dog, along with lunch compass knife, gun, extra shells, water and, hopefully, a couple of dead grouse , so loaded, that 460 is just a little too much weight. I picked up a Smith Mountain gun in 44 mag, and got some federal factory loads of 300 grain hard cast bullets doing about 1090 fps at the muzzle.

Here is the question (finally) is a brain shot my only real option with a load like this, I can rapid fire this load into a nine inch circle shooting from the hip at 7 yards, but that is on a stationary paper target, not a charging bear intent on getting a piece of my lily white butt.

How about shooting him in the face with the bird shot first, trying to blind him, and then going for the handgun. Is this load just to pitifully inadequate to even bother or what? Hopefully I will never have to deal with anything more dangerous than a P.O.�d ground squirrel, but you know how those what-ifs can play on your imagination when you are in the mountains alone.

I think at 10 feet and closing, bird shot between the eyes is going to act a whole lot like a slug. Then step closer and put the rest of the magazine into its head, preferably from a couple feet, if not inches.

I'd also guess that if one is sitting there fooling around with multiple gun/ammo combos, you have too much time on your hands, the bear is not really a threat, and/or the bear is gonna get you anyway. You have time for ONE shot. A bear in a hurry is FAST! You probably won't have time to swap the one in your hands for the one on your hip. If that one is good, and in time, you just may get seconds and thirds.

Personally, I hunt grouse with a S/S double, or an A-5 with extended magazine, using slugs, and shoot their heads off. (Not!- I use a 20 guage with 7 1/2 or 8 shot, or a 12 pump with trap and skeet loads - the others are too danged heavy for anything but waterfowl.)

Seriously, you are over-analizing.. bears don't want to mess with you any more than you want to have them mess with you. I've almost 40 years in Alaska, dinging around in the wildest places, including salmon spawning streams, and have yet to have had to shoot a bear, and then it's been closer on blacks than brown/grizzly.

'bout crapped my pants a time or two, tho.... they take unholy delight in doing that.....

It always makes me suck in some air, right quick, when one of those brownies appears by sticking his head out of the brush a few yards away. Makes you more alive than you were the day before.

Thanks for the response, I guess it is a silly thing to worry about but...

Wonder what the effective range of birdshot on a bear skull might be, 12 feet?

I've heard the theory about bird shot up close in a brown bears face acting like a slug. I frankly don't believe it. Fish and Feathers have done tests and they don't believe it either. Far as I'm concerned everyone is free to try any theory they want to try but I would prefer good slugs in a shotgun or good hardcasts in a handgun. However as las said the chances are real slim. Not to say I haven't wandered a time or two if that was going to be the time, but I've come closer to dropping the hammer on a moose than a bear.

No bear's going to enjoy a face full of bird shot, blasted from spitting distance...

you back up north b. Dave

yeah...two more weeks to go...

went to grizz spot yesterday ....still a wee bit too much snow... Blew out my bearings on the trailer uggg got to go back this morning to fix it ... 4 hours one way ...whhhho! guess I could be there.... grin...........the 6x42's on the .280 and
the 300wby {m1's} will be shootin eyes balls out.....@ 1000 see ya in a week

Looking forward to a good bear pic!

While a bear may not "enjoy a face full of bird shot, blasted from spitting distance..." I don't think it's going to
penetrate more than the hide. I don't see how that is going
to save someones arse. You are welcome to try it out and
report back.

Personal experience like that is hard to come by, and I'll pass on your invitation. Didn't mean to question your expertise on the subject, nor your position as the final authority on the matter.

Lots of things have the potential to break off an attack, obviously, sometimes just the discharge of a firearm will do it.

I'd rather have bird shot in the gun, than slugs in my pocket...

Re-reading my statement, I still find it hard to argue with.

Intentionally shot a beef in the forehead with a 12 gauge load of 5s many years ago. Instantaneous death resulted. While it was a bit closer than a bear would likely be shot it was impressive. Anything over 30 feet or so would almost surely take an eye with a center of mass shot to the head... Follow-ups should finish the job...

I think the point has been made the time allotted will allow nothing else; and if it does the bear probably did not need shooting...
art

Art, how did the bear hunt go?

Well, no bears were harmed in the making of the film...

Nasty weather with a single day of acceptable visibility. Two sets of bear tracks were seen in snow fields and no bears spotted, at all. It is a ridiculously late spring following a cold, snowy and extremely tough winter. We had a good time and saw lots of interesting things. Might get another shot at it later...
art

At least you got out and gave it a shot, another couple of weeks and maybe they will be more active. Your son did a good job on the flies too by the way.

That's more than Treadwell (sp?) could say! (grin)


Somehow I don't figure that time spent with your son at this age felt like a waste at all. It'll just serve to make the experience richer and deeper for both of you when it does culminate in his taking a bruin. Can't see how the mileage would vary much.

i fail to believe a bird shot will detour a bear if he wwants to get ya. yeah it will tear him up pretty good but i think more than anything piss him off! i would carry the .460 its a matter of you living or dying... who cares about the weight? thats what i think but ive only seen 5 black bears, none bigger than 350 lbs in AZ

Would rather have a single shot 20 with bird shot in hand than a holstered 460.

AkMtnHntr
Yeah, skipping a week of school for a brown bear hunt seems a reasonable trade! Thanks for the compliments on his flies... So far he does good work.

Randy
We had a great time in many ways and he got to make a mistake or two spectacular enough to remain indelible. I had a very good time with him and always do.
art