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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506 |
Beaver10,
Sling? How much wind? What power scope? Reticle? Caliber/bullet?
What our favorite game used to be was to set 6 cans of beer up on a board at a measured 600 yards and shoot them with a fixed 6 power scope prone with no rest, bag, bipod etc. with a regular duplex reticle. We each had 6 rounds. Man with the lowest score would buy beer that night for the group. I never bought beer for anyone in three years of playing. Damn, I miss being young!
I’ll play... Sling, sure..... Wind....5-7 mph consistent, with gusts 10-15mph Shot is 30* downhill Scope... Variable 4-18 Reticle...Duplex - to keep it sporty 300 ultra 11.5lbs Bullet 180g NAB Touch off Time is 25 seconds 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 65
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 65 |
No shooting jacket. 300 Ultra? Hmmm......got to try it this weekend....but, with a 6.5.....(still waiting for my .300 PRC)......
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 11,312 Likes: 13
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 11,312 Likes: 13 |
Well, the first thing I would like for Leupold to do is make a FFP hunting scope with reliable itnernals. There are not that many of them and that is a niche they can clearly address.
Just look at the popularity of the SWFA SS 3-9x42 on this forum.
I look at a fair number of scopes and to me, Mark 5 HD is a clear step up in consistency over Mark 4 and Mark 6, just like VX-5HD and VX-6HD are a clear step up over VX-3 and the like.
I bet if Leupold makes a 2-10x42FFP hunting scope with a covered windage turret and locking elevation turret with zero stop.
With an intelligently designed reticle and if they manage to keep the price under $900, they will make a killing. If they can't figure how to do the reticle the right way for this, I'll design one for them pro bono.
ILya Worth repeating, both for the content and for the source.
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506 |
No shooting jacket. 300 Ultra? Hmmm......got to try it this weekend....but, with a 6.5.....(still waiting for my .300 PRC)......
Cool....Don’t forget to bring your meat hauler next....I’ve got an animal down and I need you to play mule 😬😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8 |
I like my 25 plus Leupold scopes. I haven’t had any problems with them. And this is where the chit storm is going to start. I've had more problems with Leupold than any other scope manufacture. They don't dial for schit and some have failed to hold zero, then some have lost all ability to even adjust. Like someone else mentioned on page one, one of the first posts even, they need to beef up the erectors. The twin bias erector on the VX3 is a joke. Someone please tell me why they stopped making the VX3 and went straight to a VX3i model, which was supposed to be better, but then it looks more like a fake chinese knock-off. Now, you see chinese knock offs that even Leupold can't distinguish from the real ones... Now going back to the VX3: I really like the weight, size, and looks of those models. The glass is even pretty good, I just wish I didn't have 2 in a row take a chit on me. I thought the first one was just a fluke (VX3 3.5-10x40), but then when the other owe went to hell, I decided I would not own another Leupold scope. Hell, I wouldn't even piss on their building if it were on fire.....
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8 |
Leupold has known what the issues are for better than a decade.... nothing on this thread will be news to them. You and I and many other's know this first hand. Doug sure as hell should know this.... I stand by what I said in my last post. If Leupold is listening, please fix your erectors. Like someone else said, use something like what SWFA uses and rock on. I may go back to them, if I knew I could trust them to track and hold zero, like a good scope is supposed to. And by good, I don't mean a $1,000.00+ rifle scope. SWFA makes and sells them for $299 regular price, and $250 on sale for their fixed SS models. Another good thing about SWFA is they stand behind their products 100%. Leupold has a stellar warranty as well, so they aren't all bad. But they could be so much better. Like I've said many times before, I could care less how good a Warranty is. I'd rather have a scope that is going work and keep working. I even have cheaper Burris FFII rifle scopes that have been on multiple rifles and are over 20 years old, that still function great. Sadly, I haven't been that lucky with Leupold...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8 |
Near as I can tell many that twist turrets and verify adjustment settings and return to zero capability are dissatisfied with Leupold. Many of these dissatisfied guys are very experienced shooters sending lots of rounds down range and I believe they know what they are talking about. I also believe many of these dissatisfied shooters were at one time "set and forget" scope users, who have since move on to turret twisting and waved goodbye to Leupold as a result of it.
Many shooters who happily fill their freezers with "set and forget" Leupold scope use like them. They zero their scope, use reticle hold over based on experience and make gut piles. So we have two user groups requiring different things from Leupold and the two groups report different results from their Leupold scopes. I believe both sides.
I believe the dissatisfaction is a direct result of the long range shooting and hunting craze that has been popular for the last 15 years. That type of shooting leans toward turret twisting for dialing in range. Most agree, Leupold offers good looking scopes that have graced the cover of magazines for as long as we can remember. They have great eye relief, are light weight and offer very clear glass and some models have several reticle offerings.
One area where they failed is in the reticle choices of their VX5-HD line. This is a scope many can afford and it has many desirable features, but they only offer one reticle choice, in their 2-10 model, a wide duplex, illuminated or not. Why they can't offer the same scope with a reticle like their B&C or the Firedot #4 is a secret to them. Also, why offer a busy reticle in a second focal plain scope when the values of the reticle are only accurate on the highest setting?
We all have a right to expect any of their scopes to have reliable click adjustments and I believe they should clearly state a scope is designed for "set and forget" use or a scope designed to have it's turrets twisted.
If they make a reliable scope in the 2-10x42 and 3-15x42 range that has reliable adjustments and three or four reticle choices they will sell many of them, it is that simple. That type of scope will cover all big game needs.
I am sure hey are aware of their scopes short comings and I also believe they are making money in spite of it. Just keep the weight under 20 ounces. Good post..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335 |
Leupold has fixed so many of them you’d think they’d know by now..
They don’t care..
Good luck, I don’t think they’re going to change a thing.
But tracking, click values, straight reticle and RTZ would be a nice place to start. After that make the side focus so it doesn’t come loose after a few hundred rounds.
When I decided I was done with Leupold I had 17 of them. I’m down to 3.. too bad
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8 |
My reading comprehension is fine. What Doug needs to realize is that the MAJORITY of the complaints revolve around mechanics....DIALING...something the young guys tend to do a LOT....it may be a legitimate issue for that crowd but not for the majority of hunters who sight in and move on and seldom dial.....
By the way, I am an Alaskan too. And, if you meet me at Birchwood, we can maybe have a "friendly" bet regarding shooting skills......you have been CHALLENGED!
Oh geez.... Higbean, that guy is a troll plain and simple. We know who shoots and who pretends to shoot around here...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,738
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,738 |
Doug,
Thank you for starting this thread. I wish there was some way of making SURE people at Leupold that were in a position to make changes, read this thread.
I hunt more than I used to (approx. 30 days a year) and shoot a lot less than I used to ( just for sight ins and as much practice as I can squeeze in). So here is my experience with Leupold scope problems:
Sighting in, with some of my newer Leupolds, the adjustments are inconsistent in how far the next shot or several, that the impact occurs. Tapping on the turrets seems to help settle in the adjustments, but should not be needed. I have wasted a lot of ammunition sighting in some of my Leupold scopes and chasing non-existing accuracy proplems because of this.
I am retired on a fixed income, but I would be willing to pay an additional $100 over the cost of the present price of any leupold scope that I would buy if it was upgraded with a new reliable tracking erector system. Additional reticle choices would be nice, but I could live with the other already good features of their scopes. I like my rifles light and well balanced and I am not going to mount a heavy scope (over 16-17 ounces) on them and destroy their handling characteristics. Thanks, RJ
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,044 |
Doug,
Thanks for posting this and I'll play along as well. My complaints, actually may have been fixed with the VX Freedom, I'm not sure though. My complaint is mainly with the VX2, the magnification on it is lacking compared t others in the magnification range, and yes the adjustments are inconsistent. I noticed this with the last VX2 I bought, but thought I was crazy at first. I didn't call Leupold and complain as I usually set it and forget it, but it was noticeable. I have a few VX3i's I need to sight in when I return home in August, so hopefully they don't have that issue, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,381
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,381 |
Another thanks to Doug for the effort.
Most of my scopes are swaro Z3's but I do have 5 older leupolds which I like. I am a set and forget kinda guy and don't shoot much past 400 yards. Some of my scopes have stayed sighted in for years( and hundreds of shots) , the Z3 on my 300 H&H went many years worth of hunting, shooting and falling before I had to make a small adjustment.
But I will say on pretty much all the scopes, often the case is 1 click doesn't equal 1". I get that the swfa are great scopes and seem to be mechanical durable. With the number of leupolds sold you would think they could come up with better internals and it's hard to imagine in mass production it would cost them much more than $10 a scope.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,813 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,813 Likes: 4 |
Doug,
Thank you for starting this thread. I wish there was some way of making SURE people at Leupold that were in a position to make changes, read this thread.
I hunt more than I used to (approx. 30 days a year) and shoot a lot less than I used to ( just for sight ins and as much practice as I can squeeze in). So here is my experience with Leupold scope problems:
Sighting in, with some of my newer Leupolds, the adjustments are inconsistent in how far the next shot or several, that the impact occurs. Tapping on the turrets seems to help settle in the adjustments, but should not be needed. I have wasted a lot of ammunition sighting in some of my Leupold scopes and chasing non-existing accuracy proplems because of this.
I am retired on a fixed income, but I would be willing to pay an additional $100 over the cost of the present price of any leupold scope that I would buy if it was upgraded with a new reliable tracking erector system. Additional reticle choices would be nice, but I could live with the other already good features of their scopes. I like my rifles light and well balanced and I am not going to mount a heavy scope (over 16-17 ounces) on them and destroy their handling characteristics. Thanks, RJ That right there! Clearly, he's not alone, as demonstrated by all the people who've dropped extra bucks for just that one thing, or have decided packing an extra half-pound around to get reliability is a good trade off. Might not even have to design one for the S&F crowd; the old friction knobs seemed to hold just fine once you get them where you want them.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
It seems there is a bit of GROUP THINK going on here regarding disparaging comments directed at Leupold. Most doing the griping are "dialers" who expect Nightforce/SWFA mechanics. I am an "old school" hunter, you know, a guy who can actually shoot standing without a stick and can actually shoot prone without a bipod.....who can actually read wind and not need a ranging device to estimate shooting distance....I digress.
Leupold should take with a grain of salt the bickering. Most of these guys could not hit a barn if shooting standing, sitting or prone without some kind of CRUTCH DEVICE.
As far as I am concerned, most hunters sight in 2" high at 100 and never touch the scope afterwards. The capacity to hold zero (recoil resistance) and no fogging, etc. are the primary variables involved when forming an opinion of the brand.
Let the "dialers" buy their cumbersome, HEAVY, scopes as a crutch......hopefully, one day they too will learn how to shoot like the old timers......(much sarcasm intended).....
.
My reading comprehension is fine. What Doug needs to realize is that the MAJORITY of the complaints revolve around mechanics....DIALING...something the young guys tend to do a LOT....it may be a legitimate issue for that crowd but not for the majority of hunters who sight in and move on and seldom dial.....
By the way, I am an Alaskan too. And, if you meet me at Birchwood, we can maybe have a "friendly" bet regarding shooting skills......you have been CHALLENGED!
The last Leupold that I attempted to sight in my cousin purchased fir 750 dollars, new out of the box the adjustments were hit and miss. Scope dials said 1/4 moa adjustments, but who know what they actually were. Got the pol 1/4 right, adjusted 1/4 left but no movement. Adjusted another 1/4 and the pol moved 2 1/2” left. This was a set and forget scope. I’ve had rifles shooting 1/2” at 100 yards suddenly open groups to over 1 1/2” with a Leupold scope install a Bushnell Elite 4200 and groups shrunk back to 1/2” Takes to much time and Ammo to sight in a Leupold
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313 |
I have eight Leupold scopes made from 1985 - 2018. I set and forget. The ONLY problem I've had with them i on 2 or 3 the locking ring of the ocular will not stay in place, even while dry firing. There have been no mysterious loss of zero problems.
Leupold should ditch the wide duplex as standard and go back to the regular duplex. They should also go back to reasonable pricing for a reticle change.
Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?"
Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?"
Deer are somewhere all the time
To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
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Joined: May 2012
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 179 |
Doug I hate that despite your efforts this thread has gone astray. I hope you take the time to weed through the crap and get to the facts. It would be nice if a mod would cut the non relevant post, including this one I suppose. I currently own a VX-6HD that I use for dialing, in the past I’ve always gone to the SWFA SS HD series for that. So far I’ve had no issues with the 6 but every time I open this forum I question if this one is going to fail when I need it. I keep considering trading it for another SS 5-20, and since SWFA just ran them on sale for $859 last week it was a real consideration. The 6 HD is in my opinion one of the best hunting scopes on the market, but if it’s going to fail it’s of no use to me. Nobody needs a big turret on top with a zero stop that has to be used as set and forget after they pay $1500 for it.
Bottom line you are correct, this issue is effecting Leupold owners who’ve had no issue with their scopes. I have a rather expensive hunt in September that I’m no longer sure which scope will be going with me. If the 6HD fails Leupold will fix it but they can’t replace the hunt that had to be booked almost a year in advance. Good luck and thank you for your efforts here.
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Posts: 390
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 390 |
Doug: I don't know the people at Leupold that you know but I'd be surprised if you went to them with suggestions and they did anything more than just nod and smile and say thank you.
All things are always on the move simultaneously. - W.S. Churchill
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,750
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,750 |
I love the Leupold warranty
I used to buy reticles to put into used scopes as it was inexpensive.
I bought some laser boresighter internal shells.
Sighting in a minox, or Burris, if I quit turning the dial the laser dot on the wall quits moving.
On leupolds the dot Keeps squirming around on the wall If I turn a turret. It's almost as if it's alive!
Last edited by Angus1895; 06/01/19.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,888
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 2,888 |
Get rid of the gold ring. It clashes with stainless.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,555
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,555 |
I seriously wonder if the popularity of "used" Vari-X series scopes was a part of the reasoning behind the "big-changes" when the VX series was launched? I've gotten rid of almost every VX series scope I've ever purchased in favor of picking up Vari-X series scopes when I find them.
Vari-X series scopes have been pretty trouble-free for me. The few times I've experienced demonstrable tracking issues, most of the time it's been resolved by re-mounting the scope and torquing the ring-tops properly rather than "farmer-tight". I'm an avid shooter, but I don't shoot for work and don't shoot competitively.
I HATE the wide-duplex. It's too wide to offer me any sort of sub tension hold-off for elevation or windage.
If I could wave a magic-wand, I'd love to see a "Fine" version of the wind-plex. Something on the order of their TMR but in MOA. I hunt very open country, finding the reticle during legal shooting light isn't a problem.
If it weren't for Zeiss/Meopta's adjustments and power-ring being opposite Leupold, I'd own a bunch of them and far fewer Leupold scopes. I loved the image, reticle, and tracking of the 2 4.5-14x50's I had but for me growing up shooting exclusively Leupold, the Zeiss/Meopta is backwards and muscle-memory is a thing.
I know less than nothing about the costs of manufacturing optics. But, is it too much to ask that a US manufactured riflescope in the $400-$600 range track reliably?
I still own almost 70 Leupold scopes with about 1/2 of them being either 4-12x40 or 4.5-14x40 VAri-X series and a fair number of 6.5-20's as well. I haven't given up on Leupold, but I don't buy any NIB product of theirs anymore, it's all used Vari-X series stuff. Makes for a tough road when I have more confidence in a 15+yr old $300 used scope than I do in a $600+ NIB scope from the same maker.
Last edited by horse1; 06/01/19.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
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