Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Let's work together with and on Leupold

I like the ability to dial if the necessity presents itself. I would like capped low profile turrets with proper markings once exposed. Similar to the SHV line. I don’t need 40 mils of elevation or windage. Single turn like the SB PMII 10x42 would be ideal in a hunting scope.

For the general market, SFP in MOA would suffice but I prefer FFP with an intelligent modification of the #4 reticle. 2-12x42 is perfect for me. European style ocular. No illumination, parallax adjustment or other unnecessary gadgetry.

It goes without saying that a redesigned erector is a must. They were on to something with the CDS but their erector can’t be trusted. The CDS system makes sense for a general hunting scope though when loads are confirmed.

The original Leupolds are elegant scopes that look great on just about any rifle. While the glass can be quite good, the view is often tight when compared to others. Their eye relief is great. The latest versions are not as visually appealing but I understand the latest tacticool craze drives the design.

I hate their duplex reticles personally. Standard and wide...

Vista is slowly killing off Weaver in support of Bushnell anyway, why not simply purchase the rights to the Weaver line if it were cost effective. No need to reinvent the wheel, a VX/FX Microtrac would solve the problem. The Weaver Classic line has been light and rock solid reliable in it's current for since the late 80s. An optic combining the best features of that line and the VX-Freedom/FX-II would be a real force in the market. Personally I'd GLADLY purchase an optic that combines Leupold's glass with Weaver's reliability. The FX scopes have been stagnant for years, A US made K4 would be a solid seller.

Leupold doesn't care. This is a complete waste of time. It's like telling an alcoholic to quit drinking while he is stepping into the bar....

Can you guys not respect Doug's thread ?

I hate to say it, but if the service department can’t tell the bozos in engineering and production what is wrong with their scopes, that ship is taking on water with another spread of torpedoes inbound. You’d think they would figure out how much overhead is spent on repair and replacement and fix the main issues to reduce costs. The fact that they will fix legions of scopes without addressing the problems tells me their production costs are so low for the current designs that it’s cheaper to pay service techs than beef up internals. There are 2 ways to make a lifetime warranty work. One is to have a product cheaply made and sold for a premium price so that it is cheaper to just replace the defective ones and keep on selling rather than fix the problems. The other is to build a quality product with a very low failure and return rate. At some point, marketing can’t overcome the obvious. Happy Trails

Nice designs, so-so execution. I like lightweight scopes on hunting rifles and decent glass, Leupold offers these and I have been using them for 40+ years but adjustments are inconsistent. My hunting has recently changed and I will be a turret twister. Leupold will not be considered.

I’ve owned 1 Leupold scope in nearly 50 years of shooting.And I bought that one at less than half the retail price.I couldn’t tell you where it is now.There is,and always has been,other options at a cheaper price.Value to the dollar has always been the problem with Leupold to me...

I'd like to thank all of you who contributed to this thread. I have been forwarding the constructive posts to some of the higher ups at Leupold and will follow up next week with a conference call. I appreciate the input.

All I can do is try. Mom always said I was "responsible for the effort, not the outcome".

Dear Leupold, when I was a young hunter back in the 1970's my dad taught me Leupold scopes were the best and I was a loyal customer to your brand for many years. I bought dozens of your scopes throughout the years. Like many shooters and hunters today, I thought I had the best and fervently believed in your awesome American company.

Then in the 1990's I began to shoot precision rifles a lot and to my dismay I realized the point of impact changed as I dialed the magnification ring. What? I couldn't believe my beloved American scope company was selling me junk! And that was only the beginning! Canted reticles and anything to do with dialing was a joke! You betrayed me and I have since replaced you with others.

The solution to the Leupold dilemma is to replace upper management so that well known technology can be implemented. I doubt this will happen because there are so many hunters and shooters who don't shoot enough to know the difference that they will continue to keep you in business. Indeed, I'm confident you know this very well and it's part of your business plan. Until then, SWFA and Nightforce will continue to thrive on your lost market share and until it hurts enough, I doubt you'll respond to guys like me. You've known about these problems for a long time and have chosen to respond with deflection, denial, and a great return policy that pacifies the gullible. Don't assume I'll forgive you easily.

Thanks Doug. That is all we can ask. If they are formally informed and do nothing, at least to the Campfire members, their credibility will be even worse. On the other hand, we can be optimistic and hope for improvement. RJ

Exactly. Giving up without trying makes no sense to me. I'd like to think, having been in the industry as a family business since 1957, I have somewhat of a voice with the companies I buy from.

I think that would be a home run as well.

IT all comes down to this.......are they(leupold) making money.....YESSS!!!

Thanks for the effort Doug, it really is appreciated by most of us around here, as for the others....well haters gonna hate.

That sounds good except the experts here say Weavers ain't worth a shyt for tracking/holding zero either.

Roughly five years ago Leupold informed me there is no erector problem... LOL

I want to see 100% US Made riflescopes. I doubt anything short of that will interest me. Stop outsourcing...

I also recall a vendor here saying they'd not do business with Leupold because of their policies. There's lot's of alternatives.

You need to forward the whole thread to them. Cherry picking seems to be a grand thing here. I see it all the time. When you have guys that actually shoot and know what they are talking about, that have multiple Leupold failures and swear they will not buy another Leupold again, that is the kind of thing Leupold needs to know and see first hand. Lets not sugar coat this for them. If they would step up their game and offer scopes that actually work, there are many of us that would work our way back to them. Also, I think it's a good thing you are doing....but as another poster said, you will probably just get a nod and smile and thankyou from them and nothing is going to get fixed. They are happy with the way things run. Somehow, they make enough money to stay in business and they do have loyal customers that probably very rarely ever shoot their rifles, but love the way their light Leupold rifle scope looks on top of their newest wizbanger... Good luck Doug, you are going to need it...

They are a beautiful scope, lightweight , compact and their RTZ turret is tops on their twisting scopes. Adjustments are inconsistent. There has to be more going on there(Leupold) then meets the eye since the amount of returns for tracking alone should have caught someones attention by now.

I am not an optics engineer so I cannot say that x brand's erector system is better then y brand's setup. It might be a simple change or a massive change only the engineers know.

In an effort to bring positivity to Doug's thread, I'll contribute my experience.

I've owned a pile of Leupolds over the past 30 years. At one time, I had a VX-III/3 of some sort on every rifle. The last 10 years or so, I started noticing it took more than a few shots to get a new scope on target, change loads and get dialed in, or simply make a slight adjustment. Suffice to say a click 1/4" at 100 is not accurate. I also noted on new scopes it took 8-12 shots to get them close to zero. Then fine tuning was a matter of triangulation - shoot 2-3 shots to see where the center of the pattern ended up, move about half what the group was indicating, shoot a few more.

About 10 years ago I started seriously elk hunting. I've taken more than the occasional fall, rifle landing somewhere other than some prime scope up position. I've shot as many as 12 shots getting it re-zeroed. Then there is the year-to-year repeatability. I routinely shot 5-10 shots, with adjustments between groups of shots to ensure zero.

Enter NightForce SHV about 2 years ago. Gone are the sighting in, year-to-year zero, click repeatability - all gone. Just this AM, I zeroed my 338 Fed. I manually boresighted it, first shot was less than 1" from the bullseye at 25 yards. A couple of clicks, shot 2 cuts 6 o-clock. Move the target to 100 yards shoot 1, move several clicks in both direction, shoot one more - done.

I've run tall target tests on 2 of my NF SHV and they click repeatedly and are within 1-3% of exactly where they should be. I chuck up the variance to group dispersion shooting ammo that is 0.75 MOA.

I have 3 NF SHV on my main hunting rifles and see no reason to go back to Leupold. I'd love for Leupold to get their erector (or is it erection <G>) issues straightened out. As others have said, this is a known problem to Leupold.

I think the issue here is Leupold sells a ton of scopes to set/forget guys - likely the vast majority of their market. If you're only shooting a 100 rounds a year, this issue likely sounds alot like whining. If a guy shoots more than a few hundreds rounds a year, and especially if he doesn't like to play the centroid of group sigh-in game, better products exist. It comes down to a business decision for them - do you want to include the segment of the market that has brought this issue forward - or do you want to be content with the set/forget crowd and lose market share to the guys that demand more. I have no idea how big a segment the "Leupold bashers" are but with sales of NF, SWFA, and a few others, it would seem like a substantial piece of market they are missing. It comes down to that business choice.