Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters German hunting rifle ID

I was recently gifted this old rifle from my father in-law that was his father in-laws. Story goes that my wife’s grandpa took this rifle on trade as part of some work he did. It’s been sitting for close to 40 years and need a good cleaning.

I’m not finding much info on this rifle any where in the internet and would like some help on what it is

Guss Stahl Krupp Essen is stamped on the barrel in front of the reciver. I understand that Krupp was the factory the metal was made in and Essen is the town in German it was built.

Here are some pictures on it to help

Proof marks on the receiver. St.m.G is stamped just below the wood line



Proof marks and caliber stamp on the under side of the barrel (8.7mm)



Interesting front site with two different posts



Folding rear sites



Stock cracked at the wrist and has been bolted

It looks like it was based on an '88 Commission rifle, sometimes called a '88 Mauser. I really don' t know enough about them to offer much. The workmanship is very, very good, whoever did it was no amateur. I don' t know anything about the 8.7mm.

Beautiful rifle. Would love to hear more about it if anyone has more info.

SaskHunter;
Good evening to you sir, I hope the day was as nice out on the flat lands as it was here in southern BC and this finds you well.

After a quick search online for the 8.7mm round, I came up with this discussion.

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/8-7-mm-mauser/15013

As mentioned by ratsmacker, I believe as well it's a modified '88 Commission action with an aftermarket barrel installed on it. The stock is quite typical of Germanic sporters made in the 1890's and up to WWI to my eye.

Well actually one sees these stocks on some rifles made between the wars too, but honestly they're usually '98 actions by then so I'm going to guess this one is pre-WWl.

Edit to add - found a very fine listing of proof marks - the crown over N is in the German ones from Suhl.

http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

If you can find a way to slug the bore and do a chamber cast, it'd be fun to try to find some cases and take it out on a Saskatchewan whitetail hunt, well at least a gopher hunt!

Hopefully that was useful information, good luck with the interesting arm and all the best to you this summer.

Dwayne

Post your question and pics on the German Gun Collectors Assoc. site. The experts there will be very helpful.
Best to you.

Haenel 1900 or 1909. After 1898, the new Mauser was the darling of most countries and Haenel, being set up to produce the '88, redesigned the '88 to a more modern configuration. They sold some to poorer nations for battle rifles but, sold many to civilians. They were sometimes called Haenel-Mannlicher.

Joe;
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope the day is a good one in your part of the world and this finds you well.

If this works.


And it did!

I believe sir that you're entirely correct on what the arm is - well done!

In a fairly recent issue of Rifle I believe it was, Terry Weiland had an article about one. I'd have to find it now but it likely looks quite similar to Sask Hunter's rifle.

Anyway well done on the sleuthing sir and thanks.

All the best to you all as we head into warmer weather.

Dwayne

Edit to add;
I'm embarrassed to admit that a long passed shooting mentor actually had a Haenel in 8x57 that he'd restocked in a piece of gorgeous English Walnut. He's been gone 25 odd years now I guess and until you mentioned the name Haenel, it was not on my radar whatsoever.

After I posted, I looked at the action/trigger guard/triggers and bottom metal and it clicked in that I'd seen/handled one on Dave's rifle all those years ago.

Too many rifles played with and too much time past is all I can say....

BC30cal, My belief is one can find 5 hen's teeth for every Haenel that's uncovered. They don't appear with any frequency at all. Last year, I stumbled onto a Haenel M1909 Schonzeitbuchsen, or off season/varmint rifle, like the catalog page you submitted. As far as I know, these were only chambered in 6.5x52 (.25 Remington) aka .25-35 Winchester Rimless. The M1909 was chambered in 6.5, 7, 8, and 9mm (x57's), 9.3x62, and 10.75x68. Cool beyond words is how the magazine follower is pulled down to the floorplate whenever the magazine is unloaded which was to get around Mauser's patent on the W magazine spring. The serial number is stamped on the steel buttplate. I do like the Haenels. Here is mine:

Sask Hunter,
After looking closer at your pics, it seems that your rifle is a M1900 Haenel and I believe it may be chambered in 9x57 from the 8.7mm mark on the barrel. The 2.7 g GBP mark on the receiver ring denotes 2.7 grams of Gewehr Blattchen Pulver or military flake powder. StmG is for Stahl-mantel Geschoss (steel jacketed bullet) and since it doesn't show the bullet weight, it was done prior to 1912. Hope what little I know will help you out.

Forgot to add: Please do a chamber cast to help identify proper cartridge.

I might add that inner barrel dimensions stamped on old Germanic sporting rifle barrels denote bore diameters not the groove diameters that we use today as descriptors. Thus, 8.7mm (bore diameter) alludes to what we call 9mm (groove diameter) today.

Those are some very cool rifles you guys showed us. Thanks for sharing.

Cool stuff. Learn something new every day...

Wow that is a beauty

A few years ago a good friend picked up a nice Haenel, and knowing I was a fan of German/Austrian rifles he asked me what it was. Hadn't seen an actual Haedel before, so despite belonging to the GG Collector's Association for several years, it took a while to pin it down.

Here's my 1888 Gewehr, for those who might want to compare the action. Quite a few central European bolt-actions from that era shared certain characteristics.

Very interesting, thanks to everyone for sharing,

Terry Wieland covered his beautiful example, a 9x57 IIRC, a while back in one of the Wolfe mags. Lovely pieces. If I can find it, I'll provide the issue info.

Believe he said that his was different enough from the Commission rifles that it didn't look as though it was pulled from a regular production run of those.


Edit: Rifle 292, May 2017

Boy Howdy! Musta been a shortage of lawyers in those days.

Pappy348;
Top of the morning to you sir, I trust all is well in your world.

I'm on my way out the door to work and will look through my back issues tonight, but thanks so much for providing the one to look for.

In my post I said the same - that I thought Terry Weiland had written an article on one. Then of course I looked through the last year or so last night of back issues and thought - "there's no way it was further back than a year"

Where does the time go?????

Thanks again and all the best to you folks as we head into summer.

Dwayne

Missed that, Dwayne. One of Wieland's strengths as a writer is the attention he draws to stuff we ordinarily miss due to our Winchester and Mauser fervor.

You're correct about the time "issue". When I found my e-zine copy of that issue I was a little stunned that it was already two years old.

The best to you and yours as well.

Gary

An authority has stated, " The Haenels are not merely "modified M88 actions". Though they look very similar above the wood, the covered, invisible is very different. Haenel receivers probably started out with a different forging to begin with, at least the machining was different, especially on the underside." Top pic is M88 bottom is Haenel 1909

Thanks all for the info. Looks like I have a 100 year old 9x57. I have some cerrosafe coming and I’ll get a chamber cast so I know what I have for sure.

Thanks again for the info, pictures and insite