Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 30-338 Win??? Need help!

So I just found my self with a rifle my uncle had built years ago before he passed on its a custom 30-338 win on a Rem 700 action with a 26" stainless Douglas sitting in a beautiful piece of wood the round interests me and I would like put it to use
Problem is!
I can't seem to find load data anywhere and seems to be a lot diff reports on the web it looks to have the potential to push 200 Accubonds over 3000 and 168 with great velocity
I have seen some prefer 7mm brass necked up some 338 brass necked down both seem to be just a run through sizer and load process???
Could somebody with exsperience with the round help me out please what's the best brass best process to make the brass
And starting load data for 200s and 168 and the velocity they have seen
Powders I have on hand are
H1000
H4350
H4831sc
Thank you for any help

DBLTAP;
It sounds like an interesting project you've found yourself with to be sure.

While it's not a totally identical round, we've been loading for a few different .308 Norma rifles for years and there's plenty of data out there for it. If you go to the Hodgon website and follow the cues, you'll find some useful data for the powders you've listed.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Rather than run the hard to find and expensive - in Canada anyway - Norma brass, we've been using necked down and blown out .338 Win Mag brass for years. The result is a case that has a wee bit more length to the shoulder than the parent .338, but of course a bit shorter neck than if we'd used Norma brass.

We prefer Winchester brass, but have used Remington bulk brass too and managed to get acceptable hunting accuracy from the rifles we've played with.

While we started out necking 7mm brass up, I've now gone to necking .338 brass down as it's resulted in more even case mouths. I should add here that the chambers in our rifles allow for a bit of a thicker neck that might result from necking the .338 brass down.

If the chamber of the .30-.338 doesn't allow for that, then 7mm brass is the way to go.

I'd have to go measure up a couple cases for capacity comparisons, but I'd suggest that if you work up carefully and don't exceed .308 Norma velocities you'll be safe - providing of course that none of the usual pressure signs manifest themselves before reaching the target velocities.

We've been able to push 165gr Hornady Spires and 168gr Barnes TSX to about 3150fps with 24" barrels.

I've also loaded 200gr Partitions as well as 220gr Hornady RN but can't recall the velocities off the top of my head - though if memory serves they were a bit slower than those posted in the Hodgon data. That didn't stop stuff from dying when the slightly slower bullets landed however.

Hopefully that was some use to you sir, good luck on your project and all the best to you in 2014.

Regards,
Dwayne

DblTap,

The only factory firearm to my knowledge that was ever made in .30/.338 was the Remington M-40X. And yes, I have one. However, I've never shot it. (Perhaps this summer...)

There was an article in an old HANDLOADER'S DIGEST 14th Ed. circa 1995) on the cartridge. Also the latest Sierra manual published in 2003 has data on it. (And likely earlier editions as well...)

In fact, anyone who is interested in wildcat cartridges would be well advised to purchase a copy of the Sierra manual. As they include data for many Ackley Imp. cartridges...

Furthermore, it is very, very similar to the .308 Norma Magnum, and starting loads for the Norma version could likely be used and worked up from there. I would urge you to start with "starting loads" and cautiously work up. BEST TO USE A CHRONOGRAPH. It will slightly exceed the .300 H&H, but not quite equal the .300 Win. (at like pressures, of course...)

The biggest advantage to the .30/338 is that it will work on standard '06 length actions... (Like the Mauser, and 1903 SPRG.)

In the late 50's and early 60's it had some use in the 1000 yd shooting persuasion. But after the introduction of the .300 Win, it kind of died...

BTW, I believe that getting 3000 f.p.s. out of 200 gr. bullets would be pushing the envelope beyond reason. If you need to do that, you would be better advised to rechamber to .300 Win Mag, .300 Wby, or .300 RUM.

Enjoy the cartridge for what it is! It's a lot safer than to try to make it into something it's not! Good luck!

GH

PS: forgot to mention that with a tapered expander ball in your dies, 7mm Rem Mag brass can easily be necked up to .30 or one can easily neck down .338 Win Mag brass. Or even merely size .308 Norma brass and trim them. Prolly about .050" more trimming that way... But 50 cases will last a long time, and 100 cases likely for the rest of your life...

308 Norma data from Hodgdon #25 (26" bbl speeds):

165 gr

start - 68.o gr H4350 2,880 fps
max - 72.o gr H4350 3,115 fps

start - 69.o gr H4831 2,945 fps
max - 75.o gr H4831 3,140 fps

200 gr

start - 63.o gr H4350 2,740 fps
max - 67.o gr H4350 2,850 fps

start - 64.5 gr H4831 2,660 fps
max - 70.o gr H4831 2,890 fps

DBLtap don't even think about rechambering it. Dwayne hit it on using either 338 or 7mm brass if the chamber has a tight neck. Mine runs with WW338 Mag brass just fine. 1st thing though is to take the bullets you want to use and find out what throat length you have so you know how far out you can seat them without alot of jump. That Remington 700 action will have a 3.6" box and so they can be loaded as long as you need too. Mine operates real well with IMR4831 and I think that H4350 and H4831 sc might be pretty usable. With your 26" barrel it should do better velocity than some of the larger capcity belted cases do with a 24". 30-338 is pretty efficient. Some of the older Sierra Manuals have data for the 30-338. I am using IMR 4831 in mine right now with 180 gr NBT's seated to 3.55"COAL and just neck sizing my fireformed brass with a 308 Norma mag die. It's not loaded hot but am running 3149 fps at 10',so I can get away with just neck sizing. My velocity is due to the 30" barrel on my rifle.So figure out your throat length first and get back to us on that. You have something that is not common and a legacy to boot, take it on to where your Uncle was headed. Like my rifle it was "Another man's dream" and a real adventure. Magnum Man

Thanks a ton for all the info guys gives me a starting point

DBLTAP;
As I'm off work until this afternoon, I thought I'd take a quick photo for you to perhaps clarify what we've been discussing.



From the left they are:
- .30-06
- .30-06AI
- .300 H&H
- .300 WSM
- .30-.338
- .308 Norma - my short cases made from .338 Winchester brass
- .308 Norma factory
- .300 Win Mag
- .30 Newton
- .300 Weatherby
- .300 Ackley Western or .300 ICL Grizzly or .300 CCC or ????

On the .30-338 when compared to the .308 Norma, one can see that the shoulder is moved forward 0.032". When measured at that shoulder there is only 0.004" difference in diameter so for all intents and purposes the case capacity can be considered awfully close.

Once upon a time we also had a No. 1 in .300 Win Mag with a 26" barrel and as a broad statement found that we'd burn roughly a grain more of the same powder to get the same bullet running similar velocities. Hopefully that made sense?

Anyway, we've found that the .308 Normas and .300 Win Mags we've played with have been more the same than different as far as realized velocities, ease of reloading and most importantly how they worked on deer sized animals.

Hopefully that was of some use to you or someone out there today.

All the best to you in 2014.

Regards,
Dwayne

Some where in my stuff, I think I have old loading data, but as everyone pointed out the .30-338 can easily use the .308 Norma data to begin with.. These two were the dream rifles of my youth.. then the.300 win. hit the market.. Sounds like a beautiful rifle.. Enjoy and send us a photo...

BC - That .300 Ackley Western is a snazzy looking deal. I googled it and didn't come up with much, do you have any details on the round?

Thank You

DBLTap it's Edn 5 of the Sierra Manual that has 30-338 data. I can copy them and send to you snail mail, if you want that send me a PM. The point of the shoulder to the base is 2.040 on both the 338 and the 30-338. shoulder angle at 25 degrees the same. The neck to shoulder juncture is 2.201 on Sierras illustration for the 30-338 and 2.170 same for the 338. I didn't have any problem using my RCBS 308 Norma dies to squeeze down new WW338's to chamber in my 30-338 and fireform. Magnum Man

I had a shot out 7 RM bored to 30 by cliff lebounty it is now 30-338. I have always used 308 norma data with good success. mine shoots pretty close to 300 win vol with 180 gr bullets.

My elk gun is a 30-338. Current load is 77 grains of reloader 19. And 168 grain combined technology. But I plan to rework this as it runs a little too hot for my liking. I think you'll like the cartrige.

CFVA:
When the rest of the crew gets up I'll slither downstairs and see what my two Ackley books have to say and I'll PM it to you.

I've got to pre-warn you and anyone else who's got PO's books though that some of the loads have proven way, WAY too hot in either our .22-.250AI or our .250AI.

The only thing I can surmise is that PO had some of bcd's magic PMC "super tough" brass and didn't have pressure testing equipment.

It strikes me if he did, he lent it to Bob Hagel a time or two...

If I remember I'll send you a cow story or two as well.

All the best to you and yours in 2014 sir.

Regards,
Dwayne

PS;
I left out a .300 Dumoulin which is a Weatherby without the double radius but still less taper than the Ackley and then another variant of full length .300 H&H case blown out that I can't be sure of the name.

Thanks guys you guys are great! Magnum pm coming

Thank you, sir. I appreciate the information.

I don't think there's a bigger fan of the 300 Win out there than myself, so much to the fact I do a fair amount of groundhog hunting with one. It's been the easiest cartridge to load for that I've owned, right up there with my 270's. I started off hunting with a 270 and later bought a 300 Win when I got my first off the farm "real job". 20 years and umpteen many rifles later, I'm back to hunting with a 270 Win and a 300 Win. Funny how things work, isn't it?


Thank you for the New Year's wishes, I hope it brings good health and joy to you and yours as well.

I load for a friend of mine with a .308 Norma Mag in a custom 1903 Springfield. Other than a half a degree difference in the shoulder they share the exact same data. The Sierra manual list data as well as Barnes and Nosler. I have had better luck necking up 7mm Rem. Mag brass. Necking down .338's was problematic in my friends rifle. Good shooting and good luck! Let us know how you make out.

Good afternoon DBLTAP, I know this is an old thread but the old Speer manuals said their load data for the 308 Norma mag could be used for the 30-338 Win mag so that's what I've always used. They did state that velocities for the 30-338 and identical loads with heavier bullets ran an average of 150-200 fps faster than the 308 Norma with same length barrels.

Great round and your uncle would be pleased you are using it! Have a ball man! Oh yeah, my favorite 300wm load was 76gr R22 and Barnes 180xbt ( can use TSX/TTSX same) in Winchester cases. Yours may be on either side of that, but if I had it all over to do today, I'd use Norma MRP instead of R22. Its more temp stable but burns so close it can interchange with R22.