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Originally Posted by K22
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the "true Church," in spite of it's failures, has modeled Christ in serving and helping others with no benefit to themselves.


Can you define your definition of "true Church".
Just for clarification I am a believer in both God and Jesus, but I am also a believer in the fact that you can dress an Ape up in a tuxedo, but it is still an Ape. I do not know of many Non-501C3 churches in this country and those that are have taken a bribe for benefit and for no other reason. They, in full knowledge gives the Gov. the right to head the church and censor what they want censored. Therefore I am curious what church you are calling the "true church" and is modeling Christ. I don't see many of them targeting the money lenders along with some other "affairs of state".
As I've said, I am curious and hoping there is such in this country besides those who are worshiping and doing His will in secret.


The true church of Christ is "One" and is not defined by denominational boundaries, but yet it exists in every local body that is comprised of blood washed sinners saved by grace and who are following the teachings of Christ and His apostles. This is the testimony of the Scriptures on this point.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Rev.12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


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the Council of Chalcedon that was held from October 8 through November 1 in The Year of our LORD 451 was NOT to prove the Jesus was a real person but to prove that he has risen from the dead and was GOD.

Followers of the Council believe its most important achievement was to issue the Chalcedonian Definition, stating that Jesus is "perfect both in deity and in humanness; this selfsame one is also actually God and actually man."[2] The council's judgments and definitions regarding the divine marked a significant turning point in the Christological debates.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Chalcedon


“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.

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Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by Dre
F*ck religion.
Constant killing in name of _____ over the centuries.
Basically a Crutch for the weak that need something to believe in....Mystical being?
Just be a good person and move on.


Mystical? Are we overlooking the historical evidence for the man Jesus Christ -- such as from the secular historians and even the secular critics of that era?

Jesus May have existed.
But you also believe in magic?


All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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Originally Posted by Dre
Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by Dre
F*ck religion.
Constant killing in name of _____ over the centuries.
Basically a Crutch for the weak that need something to believe in....Mystical being?
Just be a good person and move on.


Mystical? Are we overlooking the historical evidence for the man Jesus Christ -- such as from the secular historians and even the secular critics of that era?

Jesus May have existed.
But you also believe in magic?


There is more manuscript evidence and testimony to the existence of Jesus than there is for any other ancient man. If His existence is tenuous, then so is every other man of ancient history. I'm not sure what you mean by magic or how it relates to the topic at hand, but some of the critics of that time ascribed Jesus' works to magic. Ascribing it to magic is acknowledging the evidence of supernatural works being performed by Christ.

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Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by Dre
Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by Dre
F*ck religion.
Constant killing in name of _____ over the centuries.
Basically a Crutch for the weak that need something to believe in....Mystical being?
Just be a good person and move on.


Mystical? Are we overlooking the historical evidence for the man Jesus Christ -- such as from the secular historians and even the secular critics of that era?

Jesus May have existed.
But you also believe in magic?


There is more manuscript evidence and testimony to the existence of Jesus than there is for any other ancient man. If His existence is tenuous, then so is every other man of ancient history. I'm not sure what you mean by magic or how it relates to the topic at hand, but some of the critics of that time ascribed Jesus' works to magic. Ascribing it to magic is acknowledging the evidence of supernatural works being performed by Christ.


So you do believe in magic....jesus can walk on water, spread the sea, make wine out of water, rise from the dead (which BTW is a zombie) ....that kind of magic you believe in?
Might as well believe harry potter is based on true life events.


All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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Originally Posted by Dre
Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by Dre
Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by Dre
F*ck religion.
Constant killing in name of _____ over the centuries.
Basically a Crutch for the weak that need something to believe in....Mystical being?
Just be a good person and move on.


Mystical? Are we overlooking the historical evidence for the man Jesus Christ -- such as from the secular historians and even the secular critics of that era?

Jesus May have existed.
But you also believe in magic?


There is more manuscript evidence and testimony to the existence of Jesus than there is for any other ancient man. If His existence is tenuous, then so is every other man of ancient history. I'm not sure what you mean by magic or how it relates to the topic at hand, but some of the critics of that time ascribed Jesus' works to magic. Ascribing it to magic is acknowledging the evidence of supernatural works being performed by Christ.


So you do believe in magic....jesus can walk on water, spread the sea, make wine out of water, rise from the dead (which BTW is a zombie) ....that kind of magic you believe in?
Might as well believe harry potter is based on true life events.


In whatever view you take regarding the origin of the universe you are faced with scientific/mathematical statistical improbabilities. There had to be an uncaused first cause (from where and why and how). There needs to be cosmic fine tuning to support the anthropic principles of life (there are over 30 of them), and because life has biological irreducible complexity the most simple cell must come into existence with all it's necessary components. These three must all coexist as one for life to come forth. Each one of these is statistically improbable and the three together are a mathematical impossibility to even calculate statistically.

Math and science both require an outside engagement that is greater than the force and laws of nature as we know them today. This is what we call phenomena or miracles--where all the scientific evidence and mathematical probability says something greater than the normal laws of science are at work. If God can be this agent once, He certainly can be again and again as He chooses. To deny this is to deny the evidence of both science and math. Therefore it is unscientifc to reject the evidence of science when it points to the evidence of miracles. Miracles are divine interventions with credible witnesses. Magic can be anything from occult practices to superstition but it is distinctly different from a divine miracle in its origin and application.

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Originally Posted by Jahrs
Originally Posted by renegade50
And which bible is correct?


The Holy Bible

Originally Posted by renegade50
What's that saying about judging others or your gonna get judged yourself...


I call it warning and passing along valid information. I don’t consider that judging. Just passing along what has taken many years to learn through failure, sin, guilt, chastisement from God, prayer, & studying/reading His Word.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-on-judging/

Which holy bible Jahrs????
Cause the christain religons that use the others think your gonna burn if ya dont turn.

Please dont enlighten me with your personal belief in my salvation based on your desire to spread the word as you believe it.
If I wanted that I would go to St Micheals Cathoilc Church here in Clarksville and listen to the priest tell me the "correct words of God" out of the half a dozen or so of bibles that have been approved by the vatican.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone
LOL! Yeah, be a good person, fck like an alley cat & kill the bastard if there's a pregnancy! LOL!

Atheists have killed more people than ALL religions combined throughout our entire history!

Originally Posted by Jahrs
Yes sir you are among the majority.

No. He's in the minority. More people believe in a God, than not.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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[/quote]Which holy bible Jahrs????
Cause the christain religons that use the others think your gonna burn if ya dont turn.

Please dont enlighten me with your personal belief in my salvation based on your desire to spread the word as you believe it.
If I wanted that I would go to St Micheals Cathoilc Church here in Clarksville and listen to the priest tell me the "correct words of God" out of the half a dozen or so of bibles that have been approved by the vatican.[quote]


May I suggest starting with the one book that was recorded with the advent of alphabetic language and which has been in continuous usage ever since -- a book which borrows from no other religious book? May I suggest reviewing its prophecies, and then seeing if there is any other religious book which even comes close to approaching that volume of fulfilled prophecy? The magnitude of prophetic fulfillment alone will separate it from every other religious book in this world. How about archaeological confirmations of history that were lost to the whole world for centuries except for the Biblical narratives? How about comparing it's message of grace, mercy, and forgiveness of sins--the ability to start over right now with your life and know that God will accept you through Jesus even if you can't live long enough to outweigh your evil deeds with good ones? Consider hearing people's testimonies of lives that were changed from bondage and vice to unselfish service. This is what Jesus has done for many and what He will do for you ... if you desire it.

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Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by K22
Quote
the "true Church," in spite of it's failures, has modeled Christ in serving and helping others with no benefit to themselves.


Can you define your definition of "true Church".
Just for clarification I am a believer in both God and Jesus, but I am also a believer in the fact that you can dress an Ape up in a tuxedo, but it is still an Ape. I do not know of many Non-501C3 churches in this country and those that are have taken a bribe for benefit and for no other reason. They, in full knowledge gives the Gov. the right to head the church and censor what they want censored. Therefore I am curious what church you are calling the "true church" and is modeling Christ. I don't see many of them targeting the money lenders along with some other "affairs of state".
As I've said, I am curious and hoping there is such in this country besides those who are worshiping and doing His will in secret.


The true church of Christ is "One" and is not defined by denominational boundaries, but yet it exists in every local body that is comprised of blood washed sinners saved by grace and who are following the teachings of Christ and His apostles. This is the testimony of the Scriptures on this point.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Rev.12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.



Ok, You answered in part what I asked and I thank you, but something says you are holding back some and that is ok, too.

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A sobering concept about the will of man is that God gives everyone the ability to choose to reject both Himself and His Word, yet His sovereignty is not threatened by those rejections.

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Originally Posted by Dre

So you do believe in magic....jesus can walk on water, spread the sea, make wine out of water, rise from the dead (which BTW is a zombie) ....that kind of magic you believe in?
Might as well believe harry potter is based on true life events.


Yes. Mystical means supernatural, above nature, unconstrained by physical laws. God is certainly all that. As the creator of physical existence, physical laws, he cannot be constrained by those laws. That would be irrational.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
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When I was a kid I got pretty fed up with some of the toxic stuff I saw going on among "Church members".... Fortunately for me I had gotten my self kind of adopted by a family that knew things were not smooth at home for me.... I was always welcome to hang out while waiting for things to cool down at home.

I never felt any pressure to attend Church but did get a chance to visit with some good people one of whom suggested I might like a C S Lewis book, The Screwtape Letters. It's a satire written as a correspondence between a head demon and his minion assigned to keep a human "patient" from Salvation and when that fails to rob him of as much joy and contentment as possible.

It was a kind of paradigm shift in my view of religion. The presence of posers and clearly unrepentant jerks inside a Church were no longer an instant deal breaker I'm out of here kind of situation. The basic 10 Commandments stopped seeming like an annoying device to keep me from having fun but rather guideline to keep me from being consumed by a wicked predator…. I don't see myself a prey or food for the darker forces.

I found an annotated version free online here..... I first read this 45 years ago.... I still think about it fairly often.....

https://allnovel.net/the-screwtape-letters.html


Storyline:
A masterpiece of satire, this classic has entertained and enlightened readers the world over with its sly and ironic portrayal of human life from the vantage point of Screwtape, a senior tempter in the service of "Our Father Below." At once wildly comic, deadly serious, and strikingly original, C. S. Lewis gives us the correspondence of the worldly-wise old devil to his nephew Wormwood, a novice demon in charge of securing the damnation of an ordinary young man. The Screwtape Letters is the most engaging and humorous account of temptation—and triumph over it—ever written.
Now, for the first time, The Screwtape Letters is presented with its full text alongside helpful annotations provided by Lewis enthusiast and dramatist Paul McCusker. The notes include literary, theological, and biographical information to enhance Lewis's core themes and demystify complex ideas. McCusker also guides readers to concepts and references from the beloved author's other treasured volumes to deepen and enrich this timeless classic. The annotated edition is the ultimate guide for understanding the heavenly truths buried in these epistles from below.


The Screwtape Letters

To
J. R. R. TOLKIEN
"The best way to drive out the devil, if he will not yield to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and flout him, for he cannot bear scorn."
- Luther

"The devill . . . the prowde spirite . . . cannot endure to be mocked."
- Thomas More

PREFACE
I HAVE no intention of explaining how the correspondence which I now offer to the public fell into my hands.
There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight. The sort of script which is used in this book can be very easily obtained by anyone who has once learned the knack; but disposed or excitable people who might make a bad use of it shall not learn it from me.

Readers are advised to remember that the devil is a liar. Not everything that Screwtape says should be assumed to be true even from his own angle. I have made no attempt to identify any of the human beings mentioned in the letters; but I think it very unlikely that the portraits, say, of Fr. Spike or the patient's mother, are wholly just. There is wishful thinking in Hell as well as on Earth.
In conclusion, I ought to add that no effort has been made to clear up the chronology of the letters. Number XVII appears to have been composed before rationing became serious; but in general the diabolical method of dating seems to bear no relation to terrestrial time and I have not attempted to reproduce it. The history of the European War, except in so far as it happens now and then to impinge upon the spiritual condition of one human being, was obviously of no interest to Screwtape.
C. S. LEWIS
MAGDALEN COLLEGE


July 5, 1941


Please don't feed the trolls!
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Originally Posted by renegade50
Originally Posted by Jahrs
Originally Posted by renegade50
And which bible is correct?


The Holy Bible

Originally Posted by renegade50
What's that saying about judging others or your gonna get judged yourself...


I call it warning and passing along valid information. I don’t consider that judging. Just passing along what has taken many years to learn through failure, sin, guilt, chastisement from God, prayer, & studying/reading His Word.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-on-judging/

Which holy bible Jahrs????
Cause the christain religons that use the others think your gonna burn if ya dont turn.

Please dont enlighten me with your personal belief in my salvation based on your desire to spread the word as you believe it.
If I wanted that I would go to St Micheals Cathoilc Church here in Clarksville and listen to the priest tell me the "correct words of God" out of the half a dozen or so of bibles that have been approved by the vatican.


Any Holy Bible that you want to use as long as there are 66 boks in it. The variances between them, you will never even know what they are unless you begin to study if so you will have it figured out but I like the ESV, NASB, and the NKJ bibles myself.

Originally Posted by renegade50
Please dont enlighten me with your personal belief in my salvation based on your desire to spread the word as you believe it.


Thats as simple as not opening up the thread isn't it?


“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.

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Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by Tyrone
LOL! Yeah, be a good person, fck like an alley cat & kill the bastard if there's a pregnancy! LOL!

Atheists have killed more people than ALL religions combined throughout our entire history!

Originally Posted by Jahrs
Yes sir you are among the majority.

No. He's in the minority. More people believe in a God, than not.





More people believe in God than not? maybe, but my comment was about people being in the majority as long as they are good and it outweighs their bad. Also more people than not think Christians need a crutch, not at all.
Your comment about more people belive in God than not has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by Dre
F*ck religion.
Constant killing in name of _____ over the centuries.
Basically a Crutch for the weak that need something to believe in....Mystical being?
Just be a good person and move on.


Originally Posted by Dre
Originally Posted by nighthawk
Originally Posted by Dre
F*ck religion.
Constant killing in name of _____ over the centuries.
Basically a Crutch for the weak that need something to believe in....Mystical being?
Just be a good person and move on.

Why? It's more fun to be a bad person. If there are no real consequences.

Lol.
Well the Problem is, some of the nastiest people I know are also the most religious...But they go to church on Sunday and repent and it starts all over on Monday as all sins have been washed away and forgiven.
We all know right from wrong and yet we still need a book to tell us what to do?
Can’t wait to really find out what’s out there after we pass.
And if there is a ‘god’ and he or she sends me to hell even though I was good person and giving me a free will to choose, then he’s a hypocrite and a dictator.
Believe in me or you will burn!!


Do you base your opinion on what others do or do take responsibility and do what is right?


“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Thunderstick, that's Post-of-the-Year material!


Amen


“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.

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I base my opinion on what I have seen through out the years.
I’m not saying all Christians are bad.
But some of the bad ones are also the most religious.... it’s a joke.
I’m just glad that some of you can admit in believing fairy tales and magic.
Mind boggling, really.


All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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Do you believe in evolution or creation?


“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.

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I’m of the opinion that those who claim to be Christians only about 10% are Christians.


“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.

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Any Holy Bible that you want to use as long as there are 66 boks in it.


I'm hoping you are not serious.
What about the other 24 or so?

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