24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
I have no idea what an imaginary scenario in 1870 has to do with anything. But if I were that guy the correct answer would still be to actually shoot the thing and make decisions off of hits rather than feelings.
Nice sarcasm. Here's another one to gig: Neither the Schofield nor the SAA were around in 1870, so the scenario truly would be imaginary unless you were in The Comancheros.

I've owned and shot both guns. About the same accuracy. The Schofield is a little more delicate over the long haul. You couldn't tell that by shooting it a couple of times. The SAA is slower to reload. In the end, the SAA feels better and many would make the decision based on that. Same thing if you had a Glock and an M&P at the range testing them. About the same...so why not make a decision based on feel.

I disagree that you are making a decision based on feelings. "Feel" may be sort of subjective, which is what I guess you're saying when you say "feelings" but it isn't a decision based on emotions really. It's how the gun feels in your hand. I will say that I've been about ready to cry after shooting some guns, but that was due to recoil hurting my hand as opposed to...say it bringing up feelings of despair or the like.

Anyway, try very hard in an objective scenario to not consider how the gun feels if you wish. You have my blessings.


That wasn’t sarcasm. I legitimately don’t understand what your incoherent ramblings about how delicate a Schoffield are have to do with our conversations.

And I will continue to try to objectively choose a gun based on how the gun performs rather than how it feels in my hand. I have two examples in my original post about how the feel of the gun in hand didn’t positively correlate to its performance. And both times I chose performance over feel.
The stuff I posted was nowhere near incoherent and if you can't understand it you either lack intelligence or are purposely misunderstanding.

GB1

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
While choosing a handgun based solely upon how it feels in your hand is certainly unwise, how it feels is still important. Perhaps you can understand the summary with no examples to confuse you.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,959
Likes: 54
T
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
T
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,959
Likes: 54
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
While choosing a handgun based solely upon how it feels in your hand is certainly unwise, how it feels is still important. Perhaps you can understand the summary with no examples to confuse you.

grin

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Yes. Eliminating the unnecessary, pointless, rambling about imaginary old west scenarios with imaginary old west guns that may or may not have existed at the time of the imaginary scenario helped a great deal in clarifying your comment.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Likes: 13
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
I've tried two sets of grips on two different pistols recently and made some initial changes based on how the gun felt in hand.

The first was a Walther Q5. The large grip that comes with the Q5 is ridiculously uncomfortable and completely unsuitable for the human hand. It hurts to grip it hard. So I put on the medium grip on, which felt great, and started shooting. But the recoil was really erratic. Switching to the large grip made was less comfortable, but with it the dot tracked directly up and down very predictably.

And I had a similar situation with an M&P 2.0. The 1.0 medium grips are too thin for me so I've always used the 1.0 large grip, even though it feels too large for me. The new 2.0s have a medium-large grip that has the same depth as the medium with the palm swell of the large. It feels like Moses brought it down off a mountain just for my hand. But in use the large grip positions my trigger finger more appropriately and I'm less likely to push the gun around during the trigger press, even though it "feels" less comfortable.

Stuff like this is one of the big reasons I hate hearing "just see which one feels best" when selecting new guns. How it feels isn't as important as how it shoots. And the two don't always have a positive correlation.


This has been my experience as well.

The interchangeable back straps make a big difference. The problem is most shooters (and instructors) don't swap them out and shoot drills under time to determine which truly fits them better. And if they do it's done in a rushed and unscientific manner that leaves most of the testing inconclusive.

But then again, a huge problem with most handgunners is they don't even use a timer to begin with. So they have on idea how well they are or aren't shooting when it comes to fit of a handgun to the shooter.

At the end of the day, you will see very little difference in score when a good shooter switches between multiple handguns on the same course of fire. A slower split here, a dropped round due to lack of familiarity there, but overall, a good shooter is going to shoot a pretty decent score with just about anything.

In short. How a gun "feels" is nonsense. In my experience.


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
IC B2

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
And both times I chose performance over feel.


Performance is described as?

Not being a smart ass but trying to parse out reliability and for example magazine capacity as a function of performance.


In those comments I was isolating the performance of the gun independent of its reliability or capacity. My thoughts were completely on how the gun acted when it was fired.
-How accurate can I be when firing the gun in slow, deliberate fire?
-How do the sights track in recoil and how consistently do the sights return to the point of aim after recoil?
-Does the gun shift in my hand during recoil, changing any of the other things I was considering from shot to shot?


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Likes: 13
Originally Posted by prairie_goat
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux


Stuff like this is one of the big reasons I hate hearing "just see which one feels best" when selecting new guns. How it feels isn't as important as how it shoots. And the two don't always have a positive correlation.


The sucky thing is that with gun purchasing, there's not often a "try before you buy" option, unless the buyer has access to a range that will rent the exact gun they're looking to purchase, or has a friend with the gun they're looking to buy, and will let them give it a test drive. It would really suck if we couldn't test drive a new vehicle before purchase, but with guns we mostly take it for granted.


Yes.

But if it's something you're committed to and something you spend time researching and spending thousands of dollars on, you should probably prepare yourself to buy, swap, trade, and test until you find what is truly working best for you.

Or just learn to shoot well period and not worry about the nuances of it all.


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Yes. Eliminating the unnecessary, pointless, rambling about imaginary old west scenarios with imaginary old west guns that may or may not have existed at the time of the imaginary scenario helped a great deal in clarifying your comment.
Imaginary guns are guns that don't exist. Both of these models did/do exist. The reason they were used was that experienced gunners oft times comment on the difference in feel between them. IMO there is little difference between the feel of plastic guns anyway, so harder to differentiate. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused you. I'll try to dumb it down for you if I comment on one of your posts again.

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642
Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
And both times I chose performance over feel.


Performance is described as?

Not being a smart ass but trying to parse out reliability and for example magazine capacity as a function of performance.


In those comments I was isolating the performance of the gun independent of its reliability or capacity. My thoughts were completely on how the gun acted when it was fired.
-How accurate can I be when firing the gun in slow, deliberate fire?
-How do the sights track in recoil and how consistently do the sights return to the point of aim after recoil?
-Does the gun shift in my hand during recoil, changing any of the other things I was considering from shot to shot?


Thank you. The 1911s fit all those parameters with me to a "tee". The only drawback is of course magazine capacity.


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Yes. Eliminating the unnecessary, pointless, rambling about imaginary old west scenarios with imaginary old west guns that may or may not have existed at the time of the imaginary scenario helped a great deal in clarifying your comment.
Imaginary guns are guns that don't exist. Both of these models did/do exist. The reason they were used was that experienced gunners oft times comment on the difference in feel between them. IMO there is little difference between the feel of plastic guns anyway, so harder to differentiate. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused you. I'll try to dumb it down for you if I comment on one of your posts again.


Don’t stop. You should talk more about them. It’s fascinating, and very relevant to the conversation at hand.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
IC B3

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Yes. Eliminating the unnecessary, pointless, rambling about imaginary old west scenarios with imaginary old west guns that may or may not have existed at the time of the imaginary scenario helped a great deal in clarifying your comment.
Imaginary guns are guns that don't exist. Both of these models did/do exist. The reason they were used was that experienced gunners oft times comment on the difference in feel between them. IMO there is little difference between the feel of plastic guns anyway, so harder to differentiate. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused you. I'll try to dumb it down for you if I comment on one of your posts again.


Don’t stop. You should talk more about them. It’s fascinating, and very relevant to the conversation at hand.
Okay. lol

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
When it gets down to it, you just created a thread about nothing, bound to end in nothing. How it "feels" is no more subjective than "how it shoots". Either can be completely subjective or loaded with objectivity depending on what is meant.

I used the old west guns because the difference is stark to people who are experienced with them. The black guns you favor and which this thread is limited to, I guess, have little objective differences between them and in a sense lend themselves very well to picking one on "how it feels".

Anybody who lays say, three guns out and tells for instance, a lady friend to just pick the one that feels best, when let's say, two of them are inferior to the other one in most other objective aspects, is indeed stupid. Why would anybody lay out two guns that are woefully inaccurate and unreliable and tell anybody to pick the one that felt the best? OTOH if you have three guns laid out that are all relatively equal in terms of accuracy, reliability and whatnot and then tell the person to pick the one that feels best to her, then what is the problem? Certainly it would be even better if you were at a gun store featuring a range where you could rent specimens of the same gun and see which she shoots the best.

Knowing a bit about women, it's certainly good in most cases to limit the array to guns that are viable in the first place and if she doesn't think it "feels" good, she is going to be a lot less likely to ever shoot it. If you can rent the gun and she shoots one of the ones that doesn't feel as good, better, then she might make that choice for herself and actually practice with it.

I don't think "feel" is as subjective as you're making it out to be.

Sorry also for introducing guns other than the extremely popular Walther into the equation for purposes of illustration and thus forcing you to come up with smartassed comments.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Good grief...

The whole danged point was that how things feel in the hand don’t always positively correlate to their actual performance when shooting (performance as defined to jorge).

Sometimes what doesn’t feel more gooder does shoot more gooder.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260
Wow. I learned something in this thread. All plastic guns are the same. SMH.


Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642
Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Good grief...

The whole danged point was that how things feel in the hand don’t always positively correlate to their actual performance when shooting (performance as defined to jorge).

Sometimes what doesn’t feel more gooder does shoot more gooder.


That was my point. NOTHING feels like a Luger in my hand, but there is no way I'd carry it as my defensive weapon. A 1911 on the other hand, accomplishes both for me, Make sense?


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Yep


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 19,496
G
g5m Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
G
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 19,496
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Unless it's a Luger or a 1911, everything else feels like a club or a 2X4..


Ha! But, I agree.


Retired cat herder.


Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642
Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Yep


So I just picked up a new Series 70... smile


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,624
Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,624
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by jorgeI


Thank you. The 1911s fit all those parameters with me to a "tee". The only drawback is of course magazine capacity.


Last I noticed there were at least 50,000 members on the Campfire. If any of them have ever posted about using more than 7 rounds in defensive use I missed it.

Forums and bulletin boards are places for enthusiasts to trade information and expound on their interests.
Big Stick, Bluedreaux, and many others post information here that is usually valid and correct. How much it applies to me in everyday life is open to question.

And I'm always gonna go with the pistol that feels and shoots good. If it results in my untimely demise then so be it. I'll take feel good to the grave...


"Chances Will Be Taken"


Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642
Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by johnw
Originally Posted by jorgeI


Thank you. The 1911s fit all those parameters with me to a "tee". The only drawback is of course magazine capacity.


Last I noticed there were at least 50,000 members on the Campfire. If any of them have ever posted about using more than 7 rounds in defensive use I missed it.

Forums and bulletin boards are places for enthusiasts to trade information and expound on their interests.
Big Stick, Bluedreaux, and many others post information here that is usually valid and correct. How much it applies to me in everyday life is open to question.

And I'm always gonna go with the pistol that feels and shoots good. If it results in my untimely demise then so be it. I'll take feel good to the grave...


You had my attention until you cited Stick as a cognoscenti of anything but FUGLY rifles with pirates, f a g g o t y colored stocks and cheap ass scopes...

Last edited by jorgeI; 06/26/19.

A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

470 members (06hunter59, 12344mag, 219 Wasp, 2ndwind, 1badf350, 257 roberts, 49 invisible), 1,733 guests, and 1,246 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,194,035
Posts18,520,982
Members74,023
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.084s Queries: 55 (0.027s) Memory: 0.9311 MB (Peak: 1.0556 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-18 18:40:21 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS