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Campfire Ranger
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Who says someone is a prophet of God? The writer? The reader? God? And if God, who says that God said they were? But to use your criteria as a test model, then not only was Enoch a prophet, but he never tasted the death and was taken up into Heaven on God's command. I think I would be most interested in reading Enoch's book if I was concerned about Christianity. A few verses referencing prophet criteria 2 Peter 1: 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but [a]holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. Deuteronomy 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. Jeremiah 28:9 As for the prophet who prophesies peace, when the word of that prophet comes to pass, then it will be known that the LORD has truly sent the prophet.” Yep! Those books sure fit under this. I find it interesting that Jahrs quotes Second Peter, which is widely considered a later forgery and NOT written by Peter, even among those who biblical scholars who believe Peter existed. Yes, that is interesting. I will continue to do my "church" thing at home as we have for 20+ years. I may be accused of failing somewhere else by God, but it won't be because I physically and silently allowed innocent babies to be murdered in this country. That is just one of many issues we have addressed in the last 20+ years. It appears these wonderful churches many are so proud of have adapted the song: Silence is Golden.
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None of the gospels referred to the crucifixion by a specific day but by referencing that day in relation to the Sabbath. Being that it was the Passover during the crucifiction, there was also the "High Holy Sabbath" during that week that High Holy Sabbath day may not have fallen exactly on the same day of the week as weekly sabbath day so there could have been 2 Sabbath days that week. Back to back perhaps.
Last edited by Jahrs; 06/30/19.
“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.
C.H. Spurgeon
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Campfire Oracle
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There are too many contradictions in the bible and between religions for all of their claims and beliefs to be true. List your favorite three or four "contradictions in the bible," please. I don't want to get bogged down with multiple examples. There are websites that have whole lists of contradictions. I'll give one example that deals with the nature of God as described in the bible. The stark contradiction between a cruel vindictive deity and a god of love; God is love. - 1 John 4:8 Love is not jealous. - 1 Corinthians 13:4 God is jealous. - Exodus 20:5 So let's begin with what God describes as His character--God is love and God is jealous. Contextually how do we understand these attributes. God so loved the world He gave His only Son and in another passage He loved us while we were yet sinners. That is a picture of His unconditional love for sinful man. God is jealous--but in what way is God jealous? Jealousy needs defined because it presumes jealousy about something or over something and can be a positive or negative inference. In Ex. 20:5 He is jealous in the sense that He does accept the belief in pluralism--that you can believe in Him and serve Him and yet serve other pagan gods also. The belief systems are opposed to one another. To use a more contemporary example would be to ask the US government for permission to have dual citizenship with the USA and Japan during WWII. It's not going to be allowed by either government because they are at odds. In fact the request alone would place you under suspicion. Each government was jealous of their national security and citizenship privileges. God is saying I am jealous for my people and their knowledge of truth--it is impossible to serve both me and other gods who oppose me, therefore I forbid it. The jealousy spoken of in 1Cor. 13:4 is envy--withholding love from those whom we resent for having more than we do. There is no contradiction between any of these verses. We can use the same word to mean radically different things. Dad is proud i.e. arrogant and haughty ... or dad is proud of me for having done my best. This is a classic example of the alleged contradictions posed by the skeptics--the contradictions are only in their own minds because they want the contradictions to be there so they can dismiss the message of the Bible. Most of these examples are easily resolved with context, common sense, and an honest desire to know the truth. Excellent
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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XXC.....
Yep, I understand your stated question. Legit question. Let me me respond and also address the issue of “blind faith” without any basis.
First, God recognizes the honest seeker. If one seeks God honestly then God responds. It really is that simple. But, if one does not seek or demands that God present Himself on that man’s terms, God may not respond. God promises that the seeker will find. You can use a bible search app and find that.
There are times when God calls.... sometimes when one is in extraordinary or difficult circumstances.....or not......God can do as He chooses and He does treat us as individuals as we are all different. “One size does not fit all.”
Now, this idea that has posted previously that there is no proof of God.... or proof of “Jesus” is simply not true. God called me and perhaps He even laid it on my heart to seek, I’m not real sure..... but, I sought and God responded. He indeed made Himself real to me and there was and still is no doubt about that.
No, I am not crazy and not deluded.
I have posted this before and will do it again.... I was 29 years old.... our real estate agent became a friend and badgered me to go to his church..... he asked my wife and I to go many times and then one Sunday night.... when attendance would be light, we went. I actually expected to sneak in, go out and thereby fulfill this friend’s request to “go to church.” Anyway, I heard things that night that I had never heard before in my life. I had many questions and went out and bought a Bible.
Now, here’s the important part... one night, my wife had gone to bed and I was up reading about the crucifixion. Ok, I think I got it .... Jesus died on the cross for our sins.... the I got stuck there.... I considered that many people have died horrible and excruciating deaths and so why is Jesus’ death so different? Also, it seems there were untold millions of people that Jesus died for....
So, I’m pondering this and I swear something kinda tapped the back of my neck.... then the words exploded in my head.....”Dave, if you had been the only one, I would have died for you.”
I was astonished and even looked around the room. The point is God....God revealed Himself and proved Himself to me.
So, yes there is proof and no, my faith is not based on “unreality.”
Get a Bible and read the Book of John.........
Last edited by TF49; 06/30/19. Reason: Spel
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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[quote=TF49]So, this guy talks about the criteria for “historians” and “scientists.” Ok, by their criteria, they conclude that Jesus is not “ well attested to?” Well, surprise surprise.
Unlike a religious follower who's obligated to mindlessly believe all the potions of a divine text, I have no requirement to accept all the positions of someone I consider a reputable source.
On the historicity of Jesus, I find Bart's evidence insufficient.
None are obligated to dodge going to Hell. He doesnt demand you do anything except die. Its His gift to you if you elect not to die. You are only obligated to do certain things if you want everlasting life. I can sure understand why He wouldnt want to twist yer arm. Lot of folks down here think that theyre hot chitt and will learn they are cold turds. I reckon He knew you before you were born and maybe didnt want you to believe, along with some others, which is why He made sure there was no proof His words in the Bible are true. Same could be said for some stiff necked Jews. There is plenty of evidence, just not the proof you demand. Well, what you demand equates to less than a piss ants fart in a hurricane.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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In the past I have brought up some of the scriptural indescrepencies he mentions, but IIRC, none of the cF Christians were able to address them. Yer jes too wiley fer reglar christians. I guess that means His words arent true? Did He ever say christians are obligated to answer anyones questions? I thot His words told the Biblical story, the Good News about Jesus and how to be saved. I got the answers to all the importsnt questions. They are in my Bible. If you want to know the answers, get you one and read it. 
Last edited by jaguartx; 06/30/19.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Tracker
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XXC.....
Yep, I understand your stated question. Legit question. Let me me respond and also address the issue of “blind faith” without any basis.
First, God recognizes the honest seeker. If one seeks God honestly then God responds. It really is that simple. But, if one does not seek or demands that God present Himself on that man’s terms, God may not respond. God promises that the seeker will find. You can use a bible search app and find that.
There are times when God calls.... sometimes when one is in extraordinary or difficult circumstances.....or not......God can do as He chooses and He does treat us as individuals as we are all different. “One size does not fit all.”
Now, this idea that has posted previously that there is no proof of God.... or proof of “Jesus” is simply not true. God called me and perhaps He even laid it on my heart to seek, I’m not real sure..... but, I sought and God responded. He indeed made Himself real to me and there was and still is no doubt about that.
No, I am not crazy and not deluded.
I have posted this before and will do it again.... I was 29 years old.... our real estate agent became a friend and badgered me to go to his church..... he asked my wife and I to go many times and then one Sunday night.... when attendance would be light, we went. I actually expected to sneak in, go out and thereby fulfill this friend’s request to “go to church.” Anyway, I heard things that night that I had never heard before in my life. I had many questions and went out and bought a Bible.
Now, here’s the important part... one night, my wife had gone to bed and I was up reading about the crucifixion. Ok, I think I got it .... Jesus died on the cross for our sins.... the I got stuck there.... I considered that many people have died horrible and excruciating deaths and so why is Jesus’ death so different? Also, it seems there were untold millions of people that Jesus died for....
So, I’m pondering this and I swear something kinda tapped the back of my neck.... then the words exploded in my head.....”Dave, if you had been the only one, I would have died for you.”
I was astonished and even looked around the room. The point is God....God revealed Himself and proved Himself to me.
So, yes there is proof and no, my faith is not based on “unreality.”
Get a Bible and read the Book of John......... TF49, thank you for your honest answer.
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>>>Within your paradigm, considering how Jesus states most people will go to Hell and suffer forever, a "lights out" outcome might be preferable. <<<
Yes, you are probably correct.
>>>Or, you would choose to act according to the best evidence available. You KNOW you are experiencing this life, and if you're hanging your hopes of heaven on Pascals Wager, you've effectively admitted you have insufficient evidence for real belief.<<<
Yes, right again....I pray a lot that the “insufficient evidence” will turn to "sufficient evidence" soon, I hope and pray real soon.
Last edited by Raspy; 06/30/19. Reason: clarity
Illegitimi non carborundum
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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XXC.....
Yep, I understand your stated question. Legit question. Let me me respond and also address the issue of “blind faith” without any basis.
First, God recognizes the honest seeker. If one seeks God honestly then God responds. It really is that simple. But, if one does not seek or demands that God present Himself on that man’s terms, God may not respond. God promises that the seeker will find. You can use a bible search app and find that.
There are times when God calls.... sometimes when one is in extraordinary or difficult circumstances.....or not......God can do as He chooses and He does treat us as individuals as we are all different. “One size does not fit all.”
Now, this idea that has posted previously that there is no proof of God.... or proof of “Jesus” is simply not true. God called me and perhaps He even laid it on my heart to seek, I’m not real sure..... but, I sought and God responded. He indeed made Himself real to me and there was and still is no doubt about that.
No, I am not crazy and not deluded.
I have posted this before and will do it again.... I was 29 years old.... our real estate agent became a friend and badgered me to go to his church..... he asked my wife and I to go many times and then one Sunday night.... when attendance would be light, we went. I actually expected to sneak in, go out and thereby fulfill this friend’s request to “go to church.” Anyway, I heard things that night that I had never heard before in my life. I had many questions and went out and bought a Bible.
Now, here’s the important part... one night, my wife had gone to bed and I was up reading about the crucifixion. Ok, I think I got it .... Jesus died on the cross for our sins.... the I got stuck there.... I considered that many people have died horrible and excruciating deaths and so why is Jesus’ death so different? Also, it seems there were untold millions of people that Jesus died for....
So, I’m pondering this and I swear something kinda tapped the back of my neck.... then the words exploded in my head.....”Dave, if you had been the only one, I would have died for you.”
I was astonished and even looked around the room. The point is God....God revealed Himself and proved Himself to me.
So, yes there is proof and no, my faith is not based on “unreality.”
Get a Bible and read the Book of John......... TF49, thank you for your honest answer. Great Testimony. One thing, he wanted to know the truth. He didnt want to find reasons to find God wrong or unjust and he didnt want to impress God that he was his own master.
Last edited by jaguartx; 06/30/19.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,189 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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I was astonished and even looked around the room. The point is God....God revealed Himself and proved Himself to me.
So, yes there is proof........ Great, How do we independently verify this alleged evidence?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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In the past I have brought up some of the scriptural indescrepencies he mentions, but IIRC, none of the cF Christians were able to address them. Yer jes too wiley fer reglar christians. I guess that means His words arent true? Did He ever say christians are obligated to answer anyones questions? I thot His words told the Biblical story, the Good News about Jesus and how to be saved. I got the answers to all the importsnt questions. They are in my Bible. If you want to know the answers, get you one and read it. 1st Peter: 3:15...and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Unless you are an honest seeker, you probably don’t.
However, God may “call” .... if He does, pick up.
Last edited by TF49; 06/30/19. Reason: Incomplete thought
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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[quote=TF49]So, this guy talks about the criteria for “historians” and “scientists.” Ok, by their criteria, they conclude that Jesus is not “ well attested to?” Well, surprise surprise.
Unlike a religious follower who's obligated to mindlessly believe all the potions of a divine text, I have no requirement to accept all the positions of someone I consider a reputable source.
On the historicity of Jesus, I find Bart's evidence insufficient.
None are obligated to dodge going to Hell. He doesnt demand you do anything except die. Its His gift to you if you elect not to die. You are only obligated to do certain things if you want everlasting life. I can sure understand why He wouldnt want to twist yer arm. Lot of folks down here think that theyre hot chitt and will learn they are cold turds. I reckon He knew you before you were born and maybe didnt want you to believe, along with some others, which is why He made sure there was no proof His words in the Bible are true. Same could be said for some stiff necked Jews. There is plenty of evidence, just not the proof you demand. Well, what you demand equates to less than a piss ants fart in a hurricane. Think about what you just said. Are you really claiming your god intentionally made me in a way that would justify his sending me to Hell? Wow. What a nice god you have.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Outfitter
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Yer jes too wiley fer reglar christians...:
what the diff between a reg. [vs] irregular christian? ..one has more fleece than the other?
Did He ever say christians are obligated to answer anyones questions?
cHristians on the fire have no problem contributing their views/explanations on many christian subject discussions, but some are like a hot potatoe that they just won't touch, yet the questions are by no means trivial or invalid, in fact quite the contrary.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Ah, yes. The hard truth is that God does not allow sin into heaven. The fantasy is that we can ignore the Creator, live without any regard to Him .... live in the fantasy that somehow that even if God does exist, somehow all will turn out ok for us.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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[quote=TF49]So, this guy talks about the criteria for “historians” and “scientists.” Ok, by their criteria, they conclude that Jesus is not “ well attested to?” Well, surprise surprise.
Unlike a religious follower who's obligated to mindlessly believe all the potions of a divine text, I have no requirement to accept all the positions of someone I consider a reputable source.
On the historicity of Jesus, I find Bart's evidence insufficient.
None are obligated to dodge going to Hell. He doesnt demand you do anything except die. Its His gift to you if you elect not to die. You are only obligated to do certain things if you want everlasting life. I can sure understand why He wouldnt want to twist yer arm. Lot of folks down here think that theyre hot chitt and will learn they are cold turds. I reckon He knew you before you were born and maybe didnt want you to believe, along with some others, which is why He made sure there was no proof His words in the Bible are true. Same could be said for some stiff necked Jews. There is plenty of evidence, just not the proof you demand. Well, what you demand equates to less than a piss ants fart in a hurricane. Think about what you just said. Are you really claiming your god intentionally made me in a way that would justify his sending me to Hell? Wow. What a nice god you have. No. There are all kind of people on this world and He just knows whos gonna accept and whos gonna reject before hand and their name doesnt go into the book of life. Esau He hated, before he was born. He knew Esau would convict Him with his mouth as He knew you would. You still get the chance to go to Heaven if you wanted that more than cursing Him. He even tells you in the Bible how to save youself. Didnt He make Pharaohs heart harden to Him? You think you are in control. You arent. He owns your hard heart and stiff neck lock, stock and barrel. Your the one who wants to go to Hell. He just knew you before you were born, and you prove every day He was right.
Last edited by jaguartx; 06/30/19.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,189 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,189 Likes: 7 |
[quote=TF49]So, this guy talks about the criteria for “historians” and “scientists.” Ok, by their criteria, they conclude that Jesus is not “ well attested to?” Well, surprise surprise.
Unlike a religious follower who's obligated to mindlessly believe all the potions of a divine text, I have no requirement to accept all the positions of someone I consider a reputable source.
On the historicity of Jesus, I find Bart's evidence insufficient.
None are obligated to dodge going to Hell. He doesnt demand you do anything except die. Its His gift to you if you elect not to die. You are only obligated to do certain things if you want everlasting life. I can sure understand why He wouldnt want to twist yer arm. Lot of folks down here think that theyre hot chitt and will learn they are cold turds. I reckon He knew you before you were born and maybe didnt want you to believe, along with some others, which is why He made sure there was no proof His words in the Bible are true. Same could be said for some stiff necked Jews. There is plenty of evidence, just not the proof you demand. Well, what you demand equates to less than a piss ants fart in a hurricane. Think about what you just said. Are you really claiming your god intentionally made me in a way that would justify his sending me to Hell? Wow. What a nice god you have. No. There are all kind of people on this world and He just knows whos gonna accept and whos gonna reject before hand and their name doesnt go into the book of life. Esau He hated, before he was born. He knew Esau would convict Him with his mouth as He knew you would. You still get the chance to go to Heaven if you wanted that more than cursing Him. He even tells you in the Bible how to save youself. Didnt He make Pharaohs heart harden to Him? You think you are in control. You arent. He owns your hard heart and stiff neck lock, stock and barrel. Your the one who wants to go to Hell. He just knew you before you were born, and you prove every day He was right. So much for the doctrine of Free Will.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
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We try and witness for Christ by telling the story of Jesus and the good news. When satan questions me i have no obligation to reply.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,189 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,189 Likes: 7 |
We try and witness for Christ by telling the story of Jesus and the good news. When satan questions me i have no obligation to reply. So now anyone who doesn't believe as you do is Satan?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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