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[/quote]Julian wasn't born until 331ce. He's not a contemporary source for Christ. [quote]


He referenced the Roman census records and he could investigate the story on the basis of the Roman records--that is good proof under any impartial criteria. He had access to more early data than we do.

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But the passage is not about Jesus. The Suffering servant is Israel, not Jesus.


Explain the logic of the Lord laying on Israel the sins of all Israel so that by their stripes Israel might be healed when the context is clearly referencing two separate entities. There is no logic in that in that view.

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[/quote]Skepticims predates Socrates. It goes back until at least the 5th century bce, so it actually has a longer track record than Christianity.[quote]


Skepticism begins with the fall of man into sin when Adam and Eve were tempted by --Did God really say ...? However prior to that Adam walked with God and thus knew better.

From a purely historical point of view our current beliefs trace back to the advent of human history and the introduction of the 10 commandments and their morality that we still embrace.

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The book of Isiah wasn't finished until around 70ce.....No magic's required when you are adding and "interpolating" after the fact.


An historical inaccuracy--It was recorded in the Greek translation of the OT, the Septuagint was completed 132 BCE, which of course means it existed in the Hebrew text long before that.

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Fast forward to the 7 minute mark:


I already addressed this from the Scriptures--I can't help if someone chooses not to recognize the correlation of the gospel record.






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The gospels reiterate many times their association with the poor, it seems to me the gospels do not have the amount of leeway to allow an interpretation as you have written, although I am still considering the matter.
I am not entirely convinced that the gospels were aimed at people from all walks of life, or even that they were intended other than exclusively for the Jews. Jesus's words to the Canaanite woman make that specifically clear, I did not understand this passage in the past, (as it wasn't made clear to me that she was a gentile woman.)
I am not considering at this time what was written afterwards, such as by Paul, or even James, I am studying Jesus's words.


The apostles gave us Jesus' words.
John 16: 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

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Originally Posted by DBT
There is no historical evidence for the existence of Jesus. All we have are the words of anonymous writers, accounts written decades after the described events. And before Josephus, et al, is brought up, the few brief mentions outside of the gospels were made on hearsay, so these are not eyewitness accounts. Paul himself was not aware of some of the things mentioned by the later works of the gospel writers.


Peter as an eye-witness and apostle affirms the writings of Paul as reliable and the equal of other Scriptures.
2Pet.3:15-16 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

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Originally Posted by DBT
It has not been established that any of the gospels were written by eyewitnesses. Plus there is an overlap, the later gospels copied heavily from Mark, which in turn is based on word of mouth, and possibly earlier unknown manuscripts.

The early church writers from all over the world of that time give testimony on authorship of the gospels. They didn't get together to conspire authorship conspiracies. The critics also quoted these gospels and their authors. A lot of skeptical reasoning today is based purely on speculative conjecture because it is fashionable among the liberals.

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Originally Posted by DBT
It has not been established that any of the gospels were written by eyewitnesses. Plus there is an overlap, the later gospels copied heavily from Mark, which in turn is based on word of mouth, and possibly earlier unknown manuscripts.

The early church writers from all over the world of that time give testimony on authorship of the gospels. They didn't get together to conspire authorship conspiracies. The critics also quoted these gospels and their authors. A lot of skeptical reasoning today is based purely on speculative conjecture because it is fashionable among the liberals.
Originally Posted by Starman
Originally Posted by DBT
... Paul himself was not aware of some of the things mentioned by the later works of the gospel writers.


Paul claimed to be a legitimate eyewitness to the resurrected Jesus despite not having seen him,
scripture ( Acts 9 ) simply says he saw a flash of light, then fell to the ground and heard a voice,
while the other men travelling with Paul heard no such voice and saw no Jesus, only the light.

When Paul got up from the ground and then opened his eyes, he also saw no Jesus,
and also found that he was blind for some days following.

Paul chose to subjectively interpret that light flash experience as a post resurrection appearance of Jesus,
thus one would have to consider how influenced he was by his own credulity or wishful thinking.

In recounting that testimony he makes it clear that he saw the Lord and talked with Him and received his missionary calling.
Peter also in his epistle affirms the reliability of Paul's writings.

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Originally Posted by rimfire
If the bible was "fact" there would be no contradictions in it,and only one version could exist all over the world. A few hundred years ago you could be thrown in jail or even killed for believing the earth was round, or not the center of the universe. Again to "believers" ignorance is BLISS.

Galileo was also a Christian. He did not allow the misapplication of faith by his contemporaries to overthrow his personal faith.
The Greek and Hebrew often have a broad range of acceptable choices for some words that will flow with the context. For example the Greek word for patience can be:
patience, steadfastness, perseverance, endurance
These are different shades of meaning that are not contradictory, and seeing the full scope of possible translation is helpful.
There are no true contradictions in the Bible records, but there are statements on either side of a subject that help us to find the center balance.
I have yet to see a skeptic post a true contradiction that is not reasonably reconciled. This thread has demonstrated this once again.

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it appears that in many cases, it's not what is written in the gospels is at issue. it's our interpretation of the words & sentences that cause us so much confusion.

if only we could agree on the interpretations, the boat would float more smoothly in the water.


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Satan inserterted his seed of unbelief when he seduced Eve. Her labor was long indeed, giving birth to both Cain and Able.

She partook of Satans fruit, as do many of we. Satan is successful in leading many astray.

[Linked Image]

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Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

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Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by rimfire
If the bible was "fact" there would be no contradictions in it,and only one version could exist all over the world. A few hundred years ago you could be thrown in jail or even killed for believing the earth was round, or not the center of the universe. Again to "believers" ignorance is BLISS.

Galileo was also a Christian. He did not allow the misapplication of faith by his contemporaries to overthrow his personal faith.
The Greek and Hebrew often have a broad range of acceptable choices for some words that will flow with the context. For example the Greek word for patience can be:
patience, steadfastness, perseverance, endurance
These are different shades of meaning that are not contradictory, and seeing the full scope of possible translation is helpful.
There are no true contradictions in the Bible records, but there are statements on either side of a subject that help us to find the center balance.

I have yet to see a skeptic post a true contradiction that is not reasonably reconciled. This thread has demonstrated this once again
.




Fortunately for me it is an easy look up as biblical contradictions have been well researched .
The contradiction between the blood thirsty God of the old testament and the teachings of Jesus are what I find the most troubling.

However the list of contradictions in the details in the Bible is very long:

“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4
the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10


Leo of the Land of Dyr

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I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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Originally Posted by Thunderstick
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Fast forward to the 7 minute mark:


I already addressed this from the Scriptures--I can't help if someone chooses not to recognize the correlation of the gospel record.







The Power of God
“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26
“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19


Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20
“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5


Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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Resurrection of the Dead
“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9
“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29

Last edited by BOWSINGER; 07/02/19.

Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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The End of the World

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33


“These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the “Son of God.” The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago."

Last edited by BOWSINGER; 07/02/19.

Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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Those born dead to Christ get to rejoice, for a little while. wink


Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

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Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20
“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5
So totally unimaginative. Instead of thinking of ways these can both be true, you insist that it is impossible for them both to be true.
It took me about 3 seconds to come up with scenarios where both can be true. The 1st one deals with law. As in, a son shall not be punished if his father commits a crime.
The 2nd one is an observation of natural consequences. For instance, if the father commits a crime and is jailed or executed, the family is rendered impoverished due to the lack of a breadwinner. This has consequences, such as fewer educational opportunities for the children, perhaps hunger, perhaps homelessness, etc. These things in fact DO reverberate throughout generations.


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