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You need to take a few more seconds and not change the meaning of "iniquity"

The Bible states that God will and God won't pass Stuff on to the children.


Leo of the Land of Dyr

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“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20
“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5

You didn't post the entire verse from Exodus. Well met,, like a lieberal demoncrap!!! That's the kinda chit they do all day long. And all this time I thought you were a straight shooter.

It ends in "of them that hate me". I believe the Creator of All There Is, could reserve that right for those who hate Him. And He knows who they are! Oh, yes, He does!!!


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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[/quote]However the list of contradictions in the details in the Bible is very long:

“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4
the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10[quote]


I am not going to respond to every contrived/alleged contradiction but I'll respond to this one to illustrate again how these alleged contradictions are simply based on cursory readings for the purpose of a skeptic's agenda.

Eccl. 1:4 A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever.
Going back to Genesis 1:2 we can see that the earth is being referenced even before it was created into it's current condition from a 6 day creation. There was a pre-existing earth and water mass before the start of creation. There will also be a renewing and reshaping of the earth at the return of Christ. The world as we know it now will be burned up. A renewed heaven and earth will be formed that will last forever but this new heaven and earth comes out from the complete remake of the current earth.

This event is spoken of in the old and new Testaments:
Isa 65:17. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven* must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


By this we can understand that the new heavens and new earth is a restoration of a perfect and sinless order.

Rev. 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

This the fulfillment of that promise.

So there are two truths being taught throughout scripture--the destruction of the world as we know it today and the future renewal of the earth to perfection. In the one sense the earth abides forever and in the other sense the world as we know it is destroyed and passes away. It is very common for the easterner to think about two complementary concepts without seeing them as contradictions.

The analogy is given in Scripture of the destruction of the world being compared to the flood of Noah. While the water did not obliterate the earth it did destroy the world as they knew it at that time. So whether you believe in the flood or not you need to understand the hyperbole of the document being studied.

2 Pet. 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

I found it interesting that many skeptics who point to the alleged contradictions in Scripture and will then turn around and say all religions are equally valid--and not see the obvious contradiction in that statement.

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Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20
“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5

You didn't post the entire verse from Exodus. Well met,, like a lieberal demoncrap!!! That's the kinda chit they do all day long. And all this time I thought you were a straight shooter.

It ends in "of them that hate me". I believe the Creator of All There Is, could reserve that right for those who hate Him. And He knows who they are! Oh, yes, He does!!!




“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;”

Posting the whole verse does not change the contradiction.


Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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The one set of verses is saying that if evil goes unchecked the consequences will extend to succeeding generations because the offense isn't broken. The Ezekiel passage is clarifying that the son can break the cycle of sin and not be held accountable for the sin of the father or experience the judgment from his father's sin. Both principles are correct--sin cycles keep repeating unless broken--but each generation has the option of breaking that cycle and God will honor that break and stop the consequences.
Both of these truths are very relevant in the social issues of our day.

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Personal Injury
“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25
“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39


Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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Temptation
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13
“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1


Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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Resurrection of the Dead
“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9
“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29


Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20
“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5

You didn't post the entire verse from Exodus. Well met,, like a lieberal demoncrap!!! That's the kinda chit they do all day long. And all this time I thought you were a straight shooter.

It ends in "of them that hate me". I believe the Creator of All There Is, could reserve that right for those who hate Him. And He knows who they are! Oh, yes, He does!!!




“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;”

Posting the whole verse does not change the contradiction.

Sure, it does. And once both verses are considered in their entirety, you should see that they are both saying the same thing in slightly different ways. Very slightly.

You didn't post all of Ezekiel 18:20 either:
Ezekiel 18:20 King James Version (KJV)
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

This one says, much like Exodus 20:5, that whoever sins and is wicked will received punishment. If they are wicked, such as one who hates God, he will be punished, but for those not in sin. free ride. Quite simple and fair. But the fairness goes off the charts in the NT, thanks to the blood sacrifice of the Lord Himself.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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I think we have more than proven the alleged contradictions do not exist with every alleged contradiction that we have addressed with you. If you are not willing to see that, then more of the same will not profit you. I have not seen you post anything that cannot be reconciled. It comes down to what you are willing to believe and not what is honestly believable. One thing you are bringing to the forefront about the Bible is that it typically presents both sides of an issue so we can see it from all angles. A person gets very skewed in their perspectives when they always look at an issue from one vantage point.
Are you willing to look at evidence from an honest perspective? Are you able to step outside your skepticism? Do you honestly seek truth? A child cannot learn from their teacher unless they first accept that their teacher has knowledge to impart. You will never find truth until you first accept that their is truth to be known...

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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER

You need to take a few more seconds and not change the meaning of "iniquity"

The Bible states that God will and God won't pass Stuff on to the children.
You are the one who doesn't understand it. Since the son isn't going to "carry" the iniquity of his father, maybe it means that he won't "put up" with it.

Again, you have a pea-sized imagination.


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Bow, maybe the Lord gives us a clue. One can believe one thing and another can believe another thing, regarding some particular thing. Believers get to be, think and feel different about different things.

They can all be forgiven and saved if they just believe the basics of the Good News and Jesus Christ.


Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Personal Injury
“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25
“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39


I will address this one yet because it represents a different category from the others.

Under the OT judicial law a wronged person could seek redress with an eye for an eye etc...
In the NT Jesus introduced a change in conduct and told His followers not to seek the eye for an eye because under the new covenant of grace we have all been forgiven much and if we have experienced forgiveness we also should be willing to extend it to others--even at a loss.
Matt. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

The NT still upholds the right of the government to bear the sword in punishment of evil but Jesus is teaching His followers to forgive and not to always demand justice for every personal offense. But again, this does not in any way limit the government's right to punish lawbreakers.

Rom.13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

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Thanks, TS


Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

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Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Personal Injury
“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25
“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39


I will address this one yet because it represents a different category from the others.

Under the OT judicial law a wronged person could seek redress with an eye for an eye etc...
In the NT Jesus introduced a change in conduct and told His followers not to seek the eye for an eye because under the new covenant of grace we have all been forgiven much and if we have experienced forgiveness we also should be willing to extend it to others--even at a loss.
Matt. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

The NT still upholds the right of the government to bear the sword in punishment of evil but Jesus is teaching His followers to forgive and not to always demand justice for every personal offense. But again, this does not in any way limit the government's right to punish lawbreakers.

Rom.13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.


So is the Son of God correcting what his Father said?

Many contradictions lay between the Old and the New Testaments.
I have already stated that my main issue is the differences between God of the Old and Jesus of the New.


Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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The OT anticipated a change of covenant and conduct in the NT ...

Deut.18:17 Then the LORD said to me, “They have spoken well. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 And I will hold accountable anyone who does not listen to My words that that prophet speaks in My name. 20 But if any prophet dares to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or to speak in the name of other gods, that prophet must be put to death.”

Jer.31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


A prophet and a new covenant are both identified as coming and as the full and final revelation of God's will for mankind. The first covenant was always considered a temporary one. The first covenant was primarily a national one with Israel to preserve and protect them as a nation until the advent of the Messiah. The first was a covenant/law of works that served to distinguish the Jewish race and set them apart from the pagan world and to identify their faith with the one true God. The 2nd covenant was intended for the whole world as a covenant of grace to bring salvation to all people by the advent of Jesus Christ. Today we have two witnesses on earth to the truth of the Scriptures--the Jews and the Church--one for each covenant.

A simple illustration is:
We primarily teach young children by rules of do and do not because they cannot understand everything. As they get older we move from the law of dos and do nots to teaching them responsibilities and life principles. When they are young we discipline their errors to guide them and as they age we instruct, but give them grace to learn on their own. We explain the benefits and consequences of choices but we do not force them to do the right thing. We give them unconditional love and grace and are open to a future relationship of mentoring. When they go astray and come back we forgive them and encourage them to do right. This a basic illustrative primer of God's dealings with man--beginning with law and moving to grace and relationship.

Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

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To all
In reflecting back I think there were times that I could have stated my thoughts more charitably. I apologize for not doing this. I only want to provide what I offered as a benefit and don't want to disrespect anyone. I hope that the interchange here will be helpful in some way to those who participated or who are silently reading. Blessings to all.

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Originally Posted by Thunderstick


Disputing the evidence for the resurrection of Christ is equal to trying to dispute that the American Revolution actually occurred.
We all "believe" it occurred on the basis of evidence.


Initially you claimed it as FACT, now you say its merely based on evidence.

Evidence does not necessarily amount to Proof or established Fact,
and that can be seen in courtrooms across the land on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by Thunderstick
.. In your belief system you choose unbelief--yes a belief system that is based on faith in your own
rational conclusions on what to doubt with a high degree of certainty.


I rely on a lack of proof being provided by christians , and because of such lack , also the absence of establishedFact.

no proof = no established fact.



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Originally Posted by Thunderstick


Our faith is based on indisputable evidence. The Bible defines our faith as such:
[quote]Now faith is the reality (or assurance or substance as some translations say) of what is hoped for,
the proof (or evidence as some translations say) of what is not seen Heb.11:1


You earlier cited proof based FACT being the basis from the start [that the resurrection took place],
yet there's no biblical mention of it in that definition of faith.

and how do you substantiate proof that cannot be seen?

Originally Posted by Thunderstick

Our faith is a strong belief based on reasonably indisputable evidence.


who decides what genuinely constitutes reasonable evidence?

and just because you adopt a 'strong belief' approach doesn't give purported evidence any extra weight.


Originally Posted by Thunderstick

... Unbelief is based upon blind faith that refuses to acknowledge
the testimony of reasonable evidence because of a strong prejudice against moral absolutes.


again its what you choose as a Christian to deem a reasonable evidence, not everybody.

Could you go into a US courtroom today with your evidence and prove/provide establiish fact,
that a man died and came back to life 3 days later,.. some 2000+ yrs ago?


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